# Where's my fucking affordable health care, you fucking fuck? \[lame\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 18, 2005, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-fucking-affordable-health-care-you-fucking-fuck-lame/299896 "2005-04-18T14:53:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-fucking-affordable-health-care-you-fucking-fuck-lame/299896/81 "2005-04-20T16:29:48Z")
Update: I just got my first month of Ritalin filled. Or, more accurately, methylphenidate, since I specifically asked for generic. 60 pills, 10 mg, non-extended release. It was **THIRTY FUCKING BUCKS**. The MSRP is only $22.32. WTF? The patent on this shit expired _how_ many years ago? …wait, don’t tell me. It’ll probably just make me more pissed off. I hadn’t bothered looking it up on the formulary, because I hazily remembered that it was a Level 1 (ie, $5.00) drug back when I was on my folks’ insurance in the mid-90’s. Good thing we’ve got plenty of food, because at this rate I’d otherwise have to come up with a way to go in to suspended animation (while still earning a check) until next Friday. Christ almighty. ---
**Author:** ![wonderwench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/35a633/32.png) [@wonderwench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonderwench)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-fucking-affordable-health-care-you-fucking-fuck-lame/299896/82 "2005-04-20T16:34:05Z")
> [@Priceguy](#): > > Yes. Countries like Bangladesh, Kenya, Nigeria, Zimbabwe and Sri Lanka. In fact, I don’t see one country in that list (with the possible exception of Israel) that have a higher infant mortality rate than the US while simultaneously being anywhere near the US level of technological and economical development. > > So let’s look at some actual competition. My own country of Sweden, which is what you’d probably consider a socialist country, has an infant mortality rate below half of that of the US, and Swedes live on average three years longer. Norway, another pinko state in your eyes, isn’t far behind, and nor is Denmark, to round out the Scandinavian commie crowd. > > How come, if the American system is so much better than ours, that your figures are so much worse? You are comparing small ethnically homogeneous countries to an extremely large country with a great deal of immigration. This is not a stastically valid comparison. The paragons of longevity you cite are also suffering from low birthrates and face a shrinking population. Let’s see how you deal with the entitlement burden on your economy as the ratio of elderly to young workers explodes. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-fucking-affordable-health-care-you-fucking-fuck-lame/299896/83 "2005-04-20T16:34:35Z")
That’s crazy. Last time I got a script for amoxicillin filled, my co-pay would have been $10, but the drug only cost $8, so I paid $8 ---
**Author:** ![wonderwench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/35a633/32.png) [@wonderwench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonderwench)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-fucking-affordable-health-care-you-fucking-fuck-lame/299896/84 "2005-04-20T16:36:52Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > TN’s sales tax is the highest in the US at 8.25% (some cities also charge a sales tax, so some residents pay 8.5%), and it’s on _everything_ but some services in this state (i.e. you hire a consultant and he doesn’t have to charge you sales tax). CA is just as high. Plus we have high state income taxes. The high cost of living here also has driven up wages to the point at which many middle class people are subject to the AMT (which was intended to make sure milionaires pay their fare share). ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-fucking-affordable-health-care-you-fucking-fuck-lame/299896/85 "2005-04-20T19:49:37Z")
I’ll tell you who’s to blame: the **health insurance industry** and the **pharmaceutical industry**. My job is to research law and government policy on these two issues, and in fact most of my clients are from these two industries. And they are so hungry for higher profits that they will do anything to block health care reform measures such as universal health care, price controls on pharmaceuticals, association health plans, and all ther attempts to regulate the industry. They pay my company a crazy amount of money to research and track state and federal legislation so they can send out their lobbyists to either block the stuff they don’t like, or to support the stuff they do like, and they also spend a crazy amount of money on campaign donations to get legislators to introduce and pass legislation favorable to their industries. I bet if you took all the money they spent on advertising and lobbying, you could cover a shit-load of uninsured people… ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-fucking-affordable-health-care-you-fucking-fuck-lame/299896/86 "2005-04-20T19:56:14Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > Fuck it. I hate it. I hate every single one of you that fights against fixing health care. I don’t see that it will ever be fixed, because the health care business is to big to fight and too many people would rather give $100 to those bastards instead of sparing $1.00 to the government. AMEN my brotha! ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-fucking-affordable-health-care-you-fucking-fuck-lame/299896/87 "2005-04-20T21:07:21Z")
That has to be the single stupidest statement I have ever read on the boards. To believe that the Government could institute universal health care for 1/100th of the cost of private health insurance is so far divorced from reality that it wasn’t even worth commenting on. I expect it from Even Sven, she’s the poster child for allowing wacko ideology to override common sense and the real world. The fact that you seem to agree says volumes about you, and not in a good way. > [@nyctea scandiaca](#): > > They pay my company a crazy amount of money to research and track state and federal legislation so they can send out their lobbyists to either block the stuff they don’t like, or to support the stuff they do like, and they also spend a crazy amount of money on campaign donations to get legislators to introduce and pass legislation favorable to their industries. The bastards! Let’s hope no other corporations get wind of this unique tactic or they’ll probably start doing the same thing! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-fucking-affordable-health-care-you-fucking-fuck-lame/299896/88 "2005-04-20T23:20:32Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > That has to be the single stupidest statement I have ever read on the boards. To believe that the Government could institute universal health care for 1/100th of the cost of private health insurance is so far divorced from reality that it wasn’t even worth commenting on. I expect it from Even Sven, she’s the poster child for allowing wacko ideology to override common sense and the real world. The fact that you seem to agree says volumes about you, and not in a good way. Of course the government could provide all its citizens coverage. You seem to forget, I am a researcher who specializes in health care issues, and how states deal with the uninsured. I can provide you with a plethora of information to back what I have said. It’s all at my fingertips here at work, since of course, this is what I get paid to research. I will start gathering it and meet you back here tomorrow. Much research has been done on the issue, and has shown how “universal health care” COULD work. But guess who is spending a lot of money blocking this progress forward? Some of the most powerful industries in the country: the health insurance and pharmaceutical industries. Why? Because they don’t want to be put out of business, nor do they want their profits to go down. It’s kill or be killed. And guess who’s getting killed: POOR AMERICANS. The desire of these industries to stay alive and make money is trumping the ability of millions of US citizens to have access to affordable health care. This is sickening. And it’s like the saying goes, if you don’t have your health, what do you have? It’s all very simple really. Insurance is about spreading risk. The bigger the population, the thinner the risk is spread. That is why big companies get better deals on health insurance, and why states literally have to force insurers to cover small groups. So what’s a bigger group than every citizen of a state? Or every citizen of a country? Remember, the purpose of a government like ours is to provide its citizens with the basics of a civilized society - as it should. Such as security and defense (the military); infrastructure (roads, dams, bridges); safety (police, agencies to guard the food and drug supply and the environment); education; laws and a justice system; etc. All of the citizenry bands together and pays taxes, which go into a big pot from which services and structure are provided for the well-being of society. We’re safe and educated and we live in an orderly and structured environment. So why the hell isn’t health care included in that list?! Shouldn’t we be safe, educated, orderly, and HEALTHY? If people are going broke or die from medical problems, then what good are any of those other things? You can’t enjoy safety and prosperity if you’re dead. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-fucking-affordable-health-care-you-fucking-fuck-lame/299896/89 "2005-04-21T00:41:37Z")
And you’re going to do this for one penny on every dollar that is currently spent on health insurance? Provide coverage for everyone who currently has it, plus the 50 million who don’t, for 1/100th of what is being spent now? I’m sorry, but that’s ludicrous. My beef wasn’t with the statement that the government could institute universal coverage, it was with Sven’s frankly stupid assertion that it could do so cheaply, specifically that the coverage provided by $100 of current premiums could be duplicated by a $1 tax. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-fucking-affordable-health-care-you-fucking-fuck-lame/299896/90 "2005-04-21T01:26:10Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > And you’re going to do this for one penny on every dollar that is currently spent on health insurance? Provide coverage for everyone who currently has it, plus the 50 million who don’t, for 1/100th of what is being spent now? I’m sorry, but that’s ludicrous. My beef wasn’t with the statement that the government could institute universal coverage, it was with Sven’s frankly stupid assertion that it could do so cheaply, specifically that the coverage provided by $100 of current premiums could be duplicated by a $1 tax. I was merely agreeing with his anger on the issue (I too am very angry about it) and agreeing that the the health care industry is indeed a formidable obstacle. That 1/100th thing? I didn’t that literally, he was cleary saying that for effect or drama. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-fucking-affordable-health-care-you-fucking-fuck-lame/299896/91 "2005-04-21T01:27:32Z")
OOPS I didn’t **take** that literally, he was **clearly** saying that for effect or drama. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-fucking-affordable-health-care-you-fucking-fuck-lame/299896/92 "2005-04-21T04:10:53Z")
> [@Siege](#): > > On the contrary, sir. As I said, I’m in excellent health. The only things I’ve used health insurance for during the past few years are birth control and one doctor’s visit which resulted in 4 prescriptions for a particularly nasty case of flu earlier this year. For that, I pay a couple of hundred dollars a month in addition to what my employer pays. About a decade ago (the most recent data I have), I didn’t have insurance provided through my employer and was looking into how much it would cost for me to pay for it myself. The cheapest plan I could find would have me paying about $1,000 in premiums and had a $1,000 deductible. In short, I would have been out $2,000 before deriving benefit. At the time, I wasn’t even using birth control, so I did without. In short, _I’m_ subsidizing _someone else_! Since the company which tried to raise my insurance rate by $100 per month tripled its profits last year, that “someone else” appears to be health insurance company executives. (Yes, I realize it’s not that simple.)CJ My apologizes, madam. I didn’t mean to single you out for criticism or complaint. But, between myself and my employer, I already pay more than $9K a year for health insurance, plus I (we) contribute 2.9% of my salary to Medicare, with an additional unknown amount of my federal, state, and local taxes going towards health care in general. I am already paying a boatload of money for my own healthcare insurance, and contributing to the healthcare costs of others. My concern is that if we adopt Universal Health Care (UHC), I will have to pay even more, and also potentially receive a lower quality of care overall. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-fucking-affordable-health-care-you-fucking-fuck-lame/299896/93 "2005-04-21T04:58:29Z")
> [@milroyj](#): > > My concern is that if we adopt Universal Health Care (UHC), I will have to pay even more, and also potentially receive a lower quality of care overall. Your concern is most likely [unfounded](http://www.umanitoba.ca/centres/mchp/cprkives/cprkiv11.htm). > [@Toronto Star](#): > > Americans certainly spend a lot more on health care than we do, or than anyone else in the world. One seventh of their national income, 14.2%, goes to health care, compared with 9.2% in Canada, and 8%-10% in most developed countries. This works out to $3708 per capita the Americans spend on medical care yearly, compared with $2002 (US) spent in Canada. It is not that Canada spends so little, - it has long been among those countries at the highest spending levels (in 1996 only Switzerland - $2412, Germany - $2222, and Luxembourg -$2206, spent more and not much more), it’s that the US spends so much. To match these levels, Canada would have to add $45 billion a year to our health care spending. > > But do we really want to do that? The truth of the matter is that more money does not necessarily buy more health care, any more than it buys more health. Americans do not receive more hospital care and they don’t receive more physician services, though they pay a lot more for what they do get. (Yes, their rates of some types of surgical procedures are higher, but overall, Canadians get more surgery than do Americans.) Americans do not get higher-quality care for their money; follow-up studies of patients on both sides of the border usually show similar outcomes. There is no clear advantage to either side. It should be noted that the studies cited by the article are all from the 1990s. Since then, the bastard Liberals (means something else _entirely_ up here, American friends!) have been doing their best to bollocks up our system. I don’t think they’ve done anywhere near enough of a job on it to make Canadian health care more expensive and poorer of quality than the American system, though. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-fucking-affordable-health-care-you-fucking-fuck-lame/299896/94 "2005-04-21T05:56:26Z")
> [@wonderwench](#): > > You are comparing small ethnically homogeneous countries to an extremely large country with a great deal of immigration. You have _got_ to be kidding. Sweden is ethnically homogenous? Sweden doesn’t have a great deal of immigration? Not that I understand what ethnicity has to do with this matter. Why does the size of the country matter so much? Why is it so much more difficult to keep basic hallmarks of civilization like infant survival just because the country is big? And if this difficulty exists, why not effectively cut up the country and let each state handle this matter on its own? I know what your real answer is. It’s that you have already decided that whatever else happens, no matter what evidence falls before your eyes, you have the correct answer to these questions, the correct opinion about this matter. Test yourself. When I asked about Sweden, was your reaction “Hmm. Could he be correct? Let’s examine the evidence and find out” or “Hmm. How can I refute this?”? If you’re honest to yourself, you’ll find it was the latter. > [@](#): > > The paragons of longevity you cite are also suffering from low birthrates and face a shrinking population. That we are and that we do, but that has precisely zip to do with the discussion at hand. > [@](#): > > Let’s see how you deal with the entitlement burden on your economy as the ratio of elderly to young workers explodes. Not a problem. There are far more immigrants who want to get into Sweden than are actually let in. The only problem there is that Sweden had a racist period during the early nineties and the meme “Immigration is bad for the economy” is still in people’s minds. They’ll get over it. ---
**Author:** ![Arwin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/51bf81/32.png) [@Arwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arwin)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-fucking-affordable-health-care-you-fucking-fuck-lame/299896/95 "2005-04-21T08:26:19Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > To believe that the Government could institute universal health care for 1/100th of the cost of private health insurance … … is not at all what \*\*even sven \*\* wrote. He said something about the mindset of many Americans, not about whether or not the government could do it at 1/100th the cost of private health insurance. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-fucking-affordable-health-care-you-fucking-fuck-lame/299896/96 "2005-04-21T08:32:07Z")
> [@milroyj](#): > > I am already paying a boatload of money for my own healthcare insurance, and contributing to the healthcare costs of others. . You just never know in this funny old world. One day, we might be picking the tab for\* your \* health care. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-fucking-affordable-health-care-you-fucking-fuck-lame/299896/97 "2005-04-21T10:29:55Z")
> [@nyctea scandiaca](#): > > I’ll tell you who’s to blame: the **health insurance industry** and the **pharmaceutical industry**. The bit I always notice is that their spokespeople are briefed to repeat “socialized medicine” _every_ time they give a public comment. It’s one they do seem to have won. Have to give them that. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-fucking-affordable-health-care-you-fucking-fuck-lame/299896/98 "2005-04-21T14:49:36Z")
> [@Arwin](#): > > … is not at all what \*\*even sven \*\* wrote. He said something about the mindset of many Americans, not about whether or not the government could do it at 1/100th the cost of private health insurance. Bullshit. The subject is universal health coverage funded by the government. **Her** ( Sven’s a she ) exact statement was: > [@](#): > > don’t see that it will ever be fixed, because the health care business is to big to fight and too many people would rather give $100 to those bastards instead of sparing $1.00 to the government. Clearly, the choice is paying for health care by either giving $100 to health insurance companies or $1 to the federal government. It is complete and utter tripe of the kind so beloved by the socialists (and that’s not an accusation. Sven’s a hardcore socialist, she’s said so. She’s probably over the line in her beliefs into outright communism. Ask her, she’ll tell you. Oddly enough she’s quite proud of it. ), and it’s utterly unrealistic in real life. ---
**Author:** ![Arwin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/51bf81/32.png) [@Arwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arwin)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-fucking-affordable-health-care-you-fucking-fuck-lame/299896/99 "2005-04-21T15:12:39Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > Bullshit. The subject is universal health coverage funded by the government. **Her** ( Sven’s a she ) exact statement was: > > > [@even sven](#): > > > > and too many people would rather give $100 to those bastards instead of sparing $1.00 to the government. > > Clearly, the choice is paying for health care by either giving $100 to health insurance companies or $1 to the federal government. It is complete and utter tripe of the kind so beloved by the socialists (and that’s not an accusation. Sven’s a hardcore socialist, she’s said so. She’s probably over the line in her beliefs into outright communism. Ask her, she’ll tell you. Oddly enough she’s quite proud of it. ), and it’s utterly unrealistic in real life. Well, if you know her (sorry about that) better than I in this respect, I’m sure she’ll chime in and tell you you’re right. The way some of you guys think taxes are the Greatest Evil on Earth TM, I wouldn’t have been surprised if she just meant that you guys hate paying taxes so much you’d rather pay $100 to a commercial venture than $1 in taxes. > [@even sven](#): > > and too many people would rather give $100 to those bastards instead of sparing $1.00 to the government. The text certainly leaves room for that interpretation, and it’s not at all a far fetched thing: I can give you plenty of example cite from this board if needed. It’s not even, in my view, a far-fetched thing to say for even sven, as it would be the exact mirror of the utter tripe you say is so beloved by socialists. Sometimes them socialists are right, though. Your health care system is screwed up. Anyway, I’ve said my peace already in an earlier post and thought I’d contributed something constructive to the discussion, but if you rather bicker on about irrelevant things pointlessly, that’s fine too - after all, this is the pit. Which reminds me, words like ‘bullshit’ do not make you look macho. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-fucking-affordable-health-care-you-fucking-fuck-lame/299896/100 "2005-04-21T15:48:58Z")
> [@Arwin](#): > > Which reminds me, words like ‘bullshit’ do not make you look macho. Thanks for the advice, but no worries, I got that taken care of with my bitchin’ Z-28, ducks ass hairdo, gold chains and alligator skin boots. I appreciate your concern, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-fucking-affordable-health-care-you-fucking-fuck-lame/299896.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-my-fucking-affordable-health-care-you-fucking-fuck-lame/299896.md?page=6)