# Where's the beef.....go? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 18, 2005, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-the-beef-go/336111 "2005-12-18T00:27:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecd19e/32.png) [@Jojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jojo)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-the-beef-go/336111/21 "2005-12-20T18:07:54Z")
As I understand it (open to correction), these toxins are destroyed by cooking. They only become dangerous if you cook the meat a second time. The first time you cook meat, everything dies and no toxins remain. ---
**Author:** ![mcjunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9dc877/32.png) [@mcjunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mcjunk)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-the-beef-go/336111/22 "2005-12-20T19:26:53Z")
Just how bad is raw chicken? I was a waiter in a small family restaurant. The cooks would chop raw chicken, beef, and fish, then proceed to touch _everything_ in the kitchen. Everything! From my western antiseptic perspective, it was horrifying–they never washed their hands, utensils, or cutting boards until closing. They used the same four knives for everything. Not once did they wash their hands after handling raw meat or frequent smoke breaks. I’m sure of this because the only sinks were in my station, and they never went there. They certainly weren’t using that Purel stuff. AFAIK, they never got sick, and neither did I. Despite being skeezed out by watching their practices, I swallowed my fearz and ate the food they prepared for me (out of respect), and took it home to share with roommates. If the cooks were immunized by a lifetime of such practices, my roommates and I weren’t–we were the products of middle class America and as such should’ve been the first with our backs against the wall when the germ revolution comes. At home, I find myself treating raw chicken like it’s haz-mat, and then I think of the cooks. Is our societal fear of raw chicken as justified as we treat it? ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-the-beef-go/336111/23 "2005-12-20T20:32:18Z")
Modern supermarkets are very efficient and they have all kinds of information systems as well as the experience of the meat department management telling them how much to sell. Meat doesn’t just sell randomly high or low amounts on any given day or week. It is highly predictable and that is usually interrupted by weather events or other odd things. They know how much to expect to sell for almost every item. They just move the meat from the delivery truck, to the freezer to the cutting room, to the shelf in a predictable pattern. They can speed this up or slow it down for any item at any time. Thate means that there isn’t that much waste in a typical meat department. The targets aren’t that hard to hit with the tools they have. Meat that does go bad usually gets trashed. Shagnasty - Former manager of supermarket predictive buying systems ---
**Author:** ![JohnM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/848f3c/32.png) [@JohnM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnM)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-the-beef-go/336111/24 "2005-12-20T20:38:55Z")
**Jojo** , while many toxins can be destroyed by cooking, not all can. [This](http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/qa-fdb31.html) from the FDA: > [@](#): > > Q: Do all toxins in food survive the cooking process? > > A: No, all toxins in food do not survive the cooking process. In fact, the botulism toxin caused by Clostridium botulinum can be inactivated by cooking. Boiling food for 10 minutes eliminates this toxin. However, many other toxins are heat stable. For example, Staphylococcus can produce toxins that are not destroyed by high cooking temperatures. And [this](http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dbmd/diseaseinfo/marinetoxins_g.htm#whatare) from the CDC: > [@](#): > > Keep fresh tuna, mackerel, grouper, and mahi mahi refrigerated to prevent development of histamine. Don’t believe that cooking spoiled or toxic seafood will keep you safe. These toxins are not destroyed by cooking. So, depending on the meat in question and likely contaminants, good food safety practices are still important, regardless of how long or hot the food is going to be cooked. As for **mcjunk** ’s experience in (I assume, from context) a small restaurant outside the U.S., much of the concern here is the result of factory farming which results in higher bacterial loads on the meat (and eggs). That is not so much a problem with locally raised/slaughtered animals. ---
**Author:** ![mcjunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9dc877/32.png) [@mcjunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mcjunk)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-the-beef-go/336111/25 "2005-12-20T21:41:33Z")
Although the restaurant owners weren’t native to America, the restaurant was. Maybe they developed their practice in Thailand (from whence they hailed), where the livestock and produce is industrial? They definitely used the cheapest ingredients available, so factory-farmed chickens and eggs abounded. I lived to tell the tail, though, so it wasn’t that bad. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-the-beef-go/336111.md?page=1)