# Where's the line between advising someone to take steps to protect themselves and victim-blaming? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 3, 2019, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-the-line-between-advising-someone-to-take-steps-to-protect-themselves-and-victim-blaming/844322 "2019-12-03T19:55:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-the-line-between-advising-someone-to-take-steps-to-protect-themselves-and-victim-blaming/844322/221 "2019-12-06T01:26:33Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > [Pennsylvania man jailed for kissing coworker.](https://wtkr.com/2019/09/13/pennsylvania-man-jailed-for-kissing-menacing-coworker-on-his-second-day-on-the-job/) ‘After stumbling out of the bathroom, Gamby kissed his coworker on the neck, **took off her shirt** , and began approaching her again, telling her “I just want to kiss you.”’ > [@](#): > > [Police search for serial groper in the Bronx](https://abc7ny.com/search-on-for-sexual-predator-who-attacked-3-women-in-bronx/5716158/) 'In one case he approached a 48-year-old woman who was removing packages from a parked car, **grabbed her groin area** and fled. Police say he also opened the passenger side car door where a 44-year-old woman was sitting and **began touching her breasts and groin area**.’ I’m not saying that forced kissing is not sexual assault in some US jurisdictions, but I’ve never seen it prosecuted as such. If it has been, I would be happy to learn where. Overjoyed, in fact, since I’ve been trying to find examples for several years. (Should this topic be split off from the rest of this thread?) ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-the-line-between-advising-someone-to-take-steps-to-protect-themselves-and-victim-blaming/844322/222 "2019-12-06T01:27:35Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Like, I don’t think I ever told my parents I went camping at Bennett Field in Brooklyn, NYC. I always wondered who camped there… 🙂 It’s actually a pretty decent campground, at least these days – I don’t know when you were there. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-the-line-between-advising-someone-to-take-steps-to-protect-themselves-and-victim-blaming/844322/223 "2019-12-06T01:30:19Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > ‘After stumbling out of the bathroom, Gamby kissed his coworker on the neck, **took off her shirt** , and began approaching her again, telling her “I just want to kiss you.”’ > > 'In one case he approached a 48-year-old woman who was removing packages from a parked car, **grabbed her groin area** and fled. > > Police say he also opened the passenger side car door where a 44-year-old woman was sitting and **began touching her breasts and groin area**.’ > > I’m not saying that forced kissing is not sexual assault in some US jurisdictions, but I’ve never seen it prosecuted as such. If it has been, I would be happy to learn where. Overjoyed, in fact, since I’ve been trying to find examples for several years. > > (Should this topic be split off from the rest of this thread?) Why not ask in GQ? Because this really is an annoying sidetrack. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-the-line-between-advising-someone-to-take-steps-to-protect-themselves-and-victim-blaming/844322/224 "2019-12-06T01:33:35Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > You didn’t assert that “forced kissing is not generally prosecuted as sexual assault.” You’ve pivoted your position. No, no I haven’t. > [@](#): > > You now concede that “forced kissing is not \*\*generally \*\*prosecuted as sexual assault.” You’ve done my work for me. Ummm… I think one of us is misreading the other. > [@](#): > > But just for your information > > From the US Marines Corps Community page on "Exactly What is Sexual Assault? > [https://usmc-mccs.org/articles/exactly-what-is-sexual-assault/](https://usmc-mccs.org/articles/exactly-what-is-sexual-assault/) > > From the US Department of Justice: > [Office on Violence Against Women (OVW) | Sexual Assault](https://www.justice.gov/ovw/sexual-assault) Kissing is not considered _sexual_. Not lip-to-lip kissing, anyway. > [@](#): > > [Reminder: 'Groping' And 'Unwanted Kissing' Is Definitely Sexual Assault | HuffPost Women](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/reminder-groping-and-unwanted-kissing-is-definitely-sexual-assault_n_57ff9f7be4b0e8c198a6642f) > > How that is applied by Federal, State or tribal prosecutors is a matter of interpretation. It isn’t really that hard to understand. It’s really not a matter of interpretation. There are fixed statutes in place. Most don’t mention kissing at all. A few specifically remove kissing from the range of sexual assaults. But the real yardstick is prosecutions. Have there been any? ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-the-line-between-advising-someone-to-take-steps-to-protect-themselves-and-victim-blaming/844322/225 "2019-12-06T01:34:38Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Why not ask in GQ? Because this really is an annoying sidetrack. K. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-the-line-between-advising-someone-to-take-steps-to-protect-themselves-and-victim-blaming/844322/226 "2019-12-06T01:41:25Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > You are opinionating with that last sentence. It is always reasonable to question whether someone else’s risk mitigation strategies are reasonable. Feelings aren’t wrong, but thought processes can be. I think we’re down too many layers of hypothetical-situations here for me to meaningfully respond, but… IF we lived in some imagined universe in which somehow we had accurate stats about how much safer not-wearing-revealing-clothes-in-public made you and IF some group of women therefore made the choice to limit their wearing of revealing clothes in public, well, I, as a man, sure as hell wouldn’t feel it was my place to tell them they were being unreasonable in making that choice. If I did, I would absolutely expect to be lambasted up one side and down the other for presumption. (Of course, I also wouldn’t tell women who didn’t make that choice that they were being unreasonable). ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-the-line-between-advising-someone-to-take-steps-to-protect-themselves-and-victim-blaming/844322/227 "2019-12-06T01:58:28Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I think we’re down too many layers of hypothetical-situations here for me to meaningfully respond, but… IF we lived in some imagined universe in which somehow we had accurate stats about how much safer not-wearing-revealing-clothes-in-public made you and IF some group of women therefore made the choice to limit their wearing of revealing clothes in public, well, I, as a man, sure as hell wouldn’t feel it was my place to tell them they were being unreasonable in making that choice. If I did, I would absolutely expect to be lambasted up one side and down the other for presumption. (Of course, I also wouldn’t tell women who didn’t make that choice that they were being unreasonable). If it was your wife (let’s say you’re married), would you be OK with her dressing up in a nun habit to reduce her likelihood of being dragged-into-the-bushes-raped? I don’t think you’d be lambasted by anyone if you were to post a thread asking if you’re right to be concerned about your wife’s mental health. Because hypothetical universe or not, making a drastic change to ones style of dress to limit the likelihood of an already rare event is always going to be questionable. It doesn’t matter if it’s a man or a woman making that decision. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-the-line-between-advising-someone-to-take-steps-to-protect-themselves-and-victim-blaming/844322/228 "2019-12-06T02:05:21Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > No, no I haven’t. …yeah you have. > [@](#): > > Kissing is not considered _sexual_. Not lip-to-lip kissing, anyway. The name of the page I’ve linked to is "“Exactly What is Sexual Assault?” What you consider sexual and what the Marine Corp considers sexual are obviously two different things. > [@](#): > > It’s really not a matter of interpretation. Of course it is. > [@](#): > > There are fixed statutes in place. Most don’t mention kissing at all. Kissing doesn’t have to be explicitly mentioned in order to be covered by the statute. Murder statutes don’t cover each and every way you can murder someone, sexual assault statutes don’t have to cover each and every way you can sexually assault someone. > [@](#): > > A few specifically remove kissing from the range of sexual assaults. But the real yardstick is prosecutions. Have there been any? No the yardstick isn’t prosecutions. You are simply moving the goalposts from what you asserted earlier in the thread. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-the-line-between-advising-someone-to-take-steps-to-protect-themselves-and-victim-blaming/844322/229 "2019-12-06T02:23:49Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …yeah you have. > > The name of the page I’ve linked to is "“Exactly What is Sexual Assault?” What you consider sexual and what the Marine Corp considers sexual are obviously two different things. > > Of course it is. > > Kissing doesn’t have to be explicitly mentioned in order to be covered by the statute. Murder statutes don’t cover each and every way you can murder someone, sexual assault statutes don’t have to cover each and every way you can sexually assault someone. > > No the yardstick isn’t prosecutions. You are simply moving the goalposts from what you asserted earlier in the thread. I have asked the mods to split the forced kissing diversion off to another thread, so any further discussion should go there. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-the-line-between-advising-someone-to-take-steps-to-protect-themselves-and-victim-blaming/844322/230 "2019-12-06T03:36:23Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > I once asked an anti-abortion protestor what should a lesbian do if she gets raped and pregnant. He responded “Most lesbians are too ugly to be raped.” This guy probably had a big collection of girl-girl porn somewhere. Asshat. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-the-line-between-advising-someone-to-take-steps-to-protect-themselves-and-victim-blaming/844322/231 "2019-12-06T03:43:17Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > 1 in 6 women have been sexually assaulted > 1 in 33 men have > > That is the only one that matters. If you create an opportunity to increase or decrease that probability, then I would advice that you decrease it. Adults, probably. If you include children, the stats are probably much closer, and boys may even be more likely to have been molested than girls. Of course, we don’t have accurate numbers because most of the time, it still isn’t reported. ---
**Author:** ![MarvinKitFox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ba0ec/32.png) [@MarvinKitFox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarvinKitFox)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-the-line-between-advising-someone-to-take-steps-to-protect-themselves-and-victim-blaming/844322/232 "2019-12-06T06:26:49Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > 1. You should look both ways before crossing the street. > 2. You should have looked both ways before crossing the street. You didn’t, and now your leg is broken in three places. Apparently, modern society considers #1 to be helpful advice, and #2 a vicious personal attack on the person. Personally I feel that if the person did indeed NOT look before crossing, then #2 is a perfectly appropriate and FACTUALLY CORRECT statement. Let me give you and alternate set of statements, to make this clear. 1. Thou shalt not kill 2. You murdered your wife in her sleep, and now you are sitting on Death Row awaiting execution. Is this STILL victim blaming? No. Of course not. It is the logical and correct consequence of a chosen action. So… just how is this different for the first example, where the injury was ALSO the logical result of a chosen action? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-the-line-between-advising-someone-to-take-steps-to-protect-themselves-and-victim-blaming/844322/233 "2019-12-06T15:07:32Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The idea that “that is the only one that matters” is a representation of the shitty place we’re in as a society. These statistics are the fault of assaulters and rapists, and of the society that makes it so easy to get away with sexual assault and rape (as well as even encouraging/tolerating/excusing rape and sexual assault). The focus should be on changing the ways our society makes it so easy for rapists, not on teeny-tiny ways that women might (or might not!) minutely affect their statistical chances of being attacked. But we aren’t talking about what can change, we are talking about what is. I agree that changes should be made, and the focus of the change should be to decrease the likelihood of it happening at all, BUT it would not change the advice I give my daughter. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-the-line-between-advising-someone-to-take-steps-to-protect-themselves-and-victim-blaming/844322/234 "2019-12-06T15:11:51Z")
> [@MarvinKitFox](#): > > Apparently, modern society considers #1 to be helpful advice, and #2 a vicious personal attack on the person. > > Personally I feel that if the person did indeed NOT look before crossing, then #2 is a perfectly appropriate and FACTUALLY CORRECT statement. > Let me give you and alternate set of statements, to make this clear. > > 1. Thou shalt not kill > 2. You murdered your wife in her sleep, and now you are sitting on Death Row awaiting execution. > > Is this STILL victim blaming? > No. Of course not. > It is the logical and correct consequence of a chosen action. > So… just how is this different for the first example, where the injury was ALSO the logical result of a chosen action? Uh, in your set of examples, you’re committing a crime. And comparing a speeding car to a rapist is dishonest in the extreme, when it’s been pointed out why several times in this very thread. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-the-line-between-advising-someone-to-take-steps-to-protect-themselves-and-victim-blaming/844322/235 "2019-12-06T15:18:19Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > But we aren’t talking about what can change, we are talking about what is. > > I agree that changes should be made, and the focus of the change should be to decrease the likelihood of it happening at all, BUT it would not change the advice I give my daughter. As long as you frame it in a non-victim blaming way, and as long as you explain the monumental injustice that such advice is required, I don’t have any more of a problem with this (in concept, anyway – some pieces of advice might be better or worse (or even harmful!) than others) than I do with parents of black boys explaining to them how they might reduce their chances of being killed by law enforcement. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-the-line-between-advising-someone-to-take-steps-to-protect-themselves-and-victim-blaming/844322/236 "2019-12-06T15:27:40Z")
> [@MarvinKitFox](#): > > Apparently, modern society considers #1 to be helpful advice, and #2 a vicious personal attack on the person. > > Personally I feel that if the person did indeed NOT look before crossing, then #2 is a perfectly appropriate and FACTUALLY CORRECT statement. What good does it do to tell someone with their leg broken in 3 places that it was their fault? Does it make you feel better to tell someone that? Do you think it makes them feel better? If no to both, then why do it? > [@](#): > > Let me give you and alternate set of statements, to make this clear. > > 1. Thou shalt not kill > 2. You murdered your wife in her sleep, and now you are sitting on Death Row awaiting execution. > > Is this STILL victim blaming? > No. Of course not. > It is the logical and correct consequence of a chosen action. > So… just how is this different for the first example, where the injury was ALSO the logical result of a chosen action? A person who murders someone is NOT a victim. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-the-line-between-advising-someone-to-take-steps-to-protect-themselves-and-victim-blaming/844322/237 "2019-12-06T15:36:58Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > As long as you frame it in a non-victim blaming way, and as long as you explain the monumental injustice that such advice is required, I don’t have any more of a problem with this (in concept, anyway – some pieces of advice might be better or worse (or even harmful!) than others) than I do with parents of black boys explaining to them how they might reduce their chances of being killed by law enforcement. The real difference here is that police are agents of the government, the state, with the power of the nation in their hands, whereas most rapists are ordinary guys. How do you guard against your boss, your coworker, neighbor, doctor, lawyer, guy on the bus, uncle, cousin, and so on? As an aside, does everybody remember the “stolen celeb photos” and various “stolen womens’ photos” scandals? There was one involving male Marines preying on female Marines. The striking thing about these incidents was that a lot of the photos weren’t nudes, especially in the case of the Marines. People said, “there’s so much explicit,\* consensual,\* free, porn out there, what’s the allure?” The allure was the lack of consent. The allure was doing something they _knew_ was against the woman’s wishes, against her consent. When say it’s power, not sex, that’s what they’re talking about. When they say, “he’s a rich/good-looking/famous guy, he doesn’t _need_ to rape anybody,” they’re saying he can get womens’ consent instead of forcing them… ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-the-line-between-advising-someone-to-take-steps-to-protect-themselves-and-victim-blaming/844322/238 "2019-12-06T17:22:34Z")
> [@MarvinKitFox](#): > > Apparently, modern society considers #1 to be helpful advice, and #2 a vicious personal attack on the person. > > Personally I feel that if the person did indeed NOT look before crossing, then #2 is a perfectly appropriate and FACTUALLY CORRECT statement. > > … Because it is _blaming the victim_. Pedestrians have the right of way. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-the-line-between-advising-someone-to-take-steps-to-protect-themselves-and-victim-blaming/844322/239 "2019-12-06T17:54:42Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > You don’t know how many women are afraid so you are going to make up some arbitrarily low percentage? Why, that isn’t irrational at all. > > According to the [General Social Survey](http://www3.norc.org/gas+website/), women were more than twice as likely than men to report they were afraid to walk in their neighborhood alone at night. > > Which doesn’t mean you won’t ever see women walking alone at night. Fear doesn’t stop most people from doing what they have to do to live a somewhat normal life. > > But plenty of women do pay extra to accommodate their fear. I once had a co-worker friend who was willing to spend an exorbitant amount in rent just to avoid living in (her words) the “ghetto”. The ghetto being where–as she told me–a white woman like her would be a prime target. > > I could have pointed her to the crime stats showing her that her expensive address was just as crime-ridden as the so-called ghetto she was afraid of (turns out high-demand neighborhoods full of rich hipsters attract their fair share of thieves and muggers, whodathunkit). I could have also told her that by stats alone, she was at a lower risk of being a crime victim in the black ghetto than I would be, since most crime is intraracial. Violent crime in the ghetto also tends to be non-random (domestic disputes). But Nancy Grace has made pretty white women the face of victimhood, so I guess my coworker’s fears sorta-kinda made sense. > > With all that money she spent to maintain a false sense of security, she could have rented a house with a big yard for her black lab and had a garden and plenty of street parking. So there are opportunity costs to fear. Sure, you see lots of women going about their day outdoors like everything is fine. But you don’t see all the little decisions they make that represent wasted time, energy, and money. > > Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk Advice to live in a safer neighborhood is much different than advice to avoid going outside alone. People are generally bad at assessing risk, so people are more scared of sharks than horses, school shootings than swimming pools, and being pulled into the bushes than going on a date with the wrong guy. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2019, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-the-line-between-advising-someone-to-take-steps-to-protect-themselves-and-victim-blaming/844322/240 "2019-12-07T06:12:07Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > I’m saying that I think most rapists had rape as their intention before they went on the date or to the party or bar, and that how the woman is dressed or behaves is relevant only in how it might make her vulnerable or an easier target. That’s an interesting, if disturbing-to-think-about, question. As a thought experiment, imagine that for every rape, we travel back in time two hours beforehand, then administer a truth serum to the to-be-rapist, and ask him what he believes he will be doing for the next few hours. Some presumably do fully intend to be committing a rape, likely because for them the gratification comes from the violation and control. But some, I suspect (and here’s where I may be WAY off base), hope and intend to go out to a bar or a club, meet a woman, charm her with their handsome male studliness, and then have some vigorous and gratifying but totally consensual sex. And it’s only after they have been rejected a few times, and had several drinks too many, and are stumbling home muttering resentfully to themself about how feminists have ruined all women (or whatever ridiculous incel-adjacent bullshit they might come up with), and then they see one of the women who rejected them walking home alone, or a woman who reminds them of one of the women who rejected them… Do any of the frequently-discussed “common sense” bits of safety advice women so often receive change their likelihood of being victimized by a man with the second mindset, assuming such men exist with any frequency? Again, I don’t know. But I can’t dismiss the possibility out of hand. Speaking as a straight man, it’s absolutely the case that a significant part of my brain is VERY aware of women who are wearing revealing, or form-hugging, clothing. Even if it’s a woman who I would never flirt with or hit on or have any interest in whatsoever, it’s not something I can ignore or look past. It just doesn’t seem plausible to me that that level of instinctive impact would NOT have an effect on a potential rapist, with potentially terrible consequences. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-the-line-between-advising-someone-to-take-steps-to-protect-themselves-and-victim-blaming/844322.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-the-line-between-advising-someone-to-take-steps-to-protect-themselves-and-victim-blaming/844322.md?page=13)