# Where's the line between advising someone to take steps to protect themselves and victim-blaming? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 3, 2019, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-the-line-between-advising-someone-to-take-steps-to-protect-themselves-and-victim-blaming/844322 "2019-12-03T19:55:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-the-line-between-advising-someone-to-take-steps-to-protect-themselves-and-victim-blaming/844322/141 "2019-12-05T02:54:03Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > You seem really confused by my analogy. > > Let’s say you have two kids–a boy and a girl. > > Do you tell both of them to avoid getting drunk and wandering around late at night in dangerous neighborhoods? > > Or would you give only the girl this advice and let the boy go around thinking he’s 100% safe no matter what he does? Even though statistically speaking, he’s more likely to be a victim of violent crime than your daughter because of his maleness? > > Now to go back to the drunk driving analogy, do you only preach about the dangers of drunk driving to men who support large families and thus have a lot to lose by being so reckless? Or do you tell everyone about the dangers of drunk driving because drunk driving is unsafe no matter who does it? > > Most murder victims are male. Most victims of non-rape violence are men. So if we want to be slaves to statistics, it makes far more sense for us to give special lecturing to men about how dangerous the world is for them, rather than focusing so much on women. > > It only makes sense to give special lecturing to women about rape if we believe that rape is objectively worse than being killed. I know some people honestly think rape is just that horrible, but this is ridiculous. > > From [this](https://www.victimsweek.gc.ca/res/r512.html) cite: > > If you think giving the raw facts to people will deter them from high risk behaviors, then maybe you should try it out on guys first. Wave the above statistics in young men’s faces and follow it up with a long sermon on how unsafe it is to get drunk at bars where fights might break out and how unsafe it is for them to walk down the street late at night in a three-piece business suit and how unsafe it is for them to [drive around in late-model automobiles](https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/Publications/abstract.aspx?ID=147002). > > If people actually presented facts and figures when advising others, then you’d have a point. But that’s not what happens. What usually happens is people have notions in their head (e.g., “Women are more likely to be victims than men” and “Rape is the worst thing that can happen to a woman” and “Dangerous neighborhoods are easy to spot” and “Rape is so prevalent that it is important a woman think about it all the time, no matter her individual circumstances.,” ) that simply aren’t reflective of reality. And because these notions are wrong, the advice they inspire is also wrong. Like, if a person believes that rape really is the worst thing that can happen to a woman, then yeah, it makes sense to give her special warnings about traveling alone at night. But if you believe (as I do) that murder is worse, then it makes sense to save your special warnings for guys. That is, if for some weird reason you can’t manage to just tell both boys and girls to be careful when they travel alone at night. > > I know people have a problem with relative risk, but this isn’t rocket science. [Smoking appears to be more dangerous for women than for men](https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/Publications/abstract.aspx?ID=147002). Does that mean it is safe for men? No! It’s hella dangerous for men too. NO ONE SHOULD BE SMOKING CIGARRETES. That’s the fucking message. By targeting women with an anti-smoking message, suddenly you’re sending a message that lung cancer is a “woman’s issue”. Just like targeting women with special safety advice is sending a message that violence is a women’s issue. When it’s everything but that. > > How can worrying be victim blaming? What a bizarre question. > > Personally, while I am very fortunate to have never been the victim of a violent crime, I have been flashed before. A completely naked guy stepped out from an alley and waved his dick at me menacingly. This happened in a quiet, tree-lined ritzy neighborhood with million dollar houses. The flasher looked like he could have been a college professor or a lawyer, if he had been clothed. Nothing like this has ever happened to me in the “bad” neighborhoods I walk through on my way to and from work. > > Would you think it irrational of me to worry more about my safety in that ritzy neighborhood? Because I’ll tell you, that’s how feel. In that ritzy neighborhood, no one sits out on their front porch. There are no corner stores that I could take refuge in. I feel like if some shit went down, I could scream and everyone would be too chicken-shit to leave their airtight palaces to help me. But I don’t feel like that when I travel through rougher neighborhoods. There’s always people sitting out on porches and stoops or waiting at bus stops. People speak to you, say hello and let you know they’re keeping an eye out. There might be winos hanging out in alleys, but they are old dudes who are too decrepit to hurt anyone. At least they keep their clothes on. So while I try to have situational awareness no matter where I go, I don’t hinge my alertness level on the income level of the neighborhood. I hinge it on how many eyeballs are in my general vicinity. Well I don’t have a son but… For my daughter, advice is more focussed on avoiding rape, for teen boys that I know (remembering I’m old and don’t party) it is more focussed on avoiding aggression. But is it neither all one nor all the other. For teen boys they do get advice on how not to be rapists as well. Although I must admit - the other day I was compelled to warn my demon spawn that behaving “this way” is a good way to get herself into a fight when out at a club, where alcohol makes fuses shorter. I warn all about the dangers of drink driving…but I am quick to acknowledge that the consequences are far greater for me (I MUST have a license for my job) than it is for someone who doesn’t drive for work. And my attitude is universally reflected amongst all people I know who are in the same situation. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-the-line-between-advising-someone-to-take-steps-to-protect-themselves-and-victim-blaming/844322/142 "2019-12-05T03:04:26Z")
> [@margin](#): > > The long-delayed testing of rape kits across the country has revealed there are far more serial rapists than was previously thought. Just wanted to emphasize this point, as it’s relevant to what I posted above (I was going to include this in the previous post but I accidentally posted before I was finished). The rapist didn’t decide to rape his date because she wore a short dress and kept crossing her legs suggestively. He decided to rape his date before he invited her on the date. Now, when he got caught he might’ve tried to blame it on her behavior and act like it was a one time lapse of judgment or something. But he’s probably done this before. More serial rapists than previously thought also means fewer “one off” rapists than previously thought. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-the-line-between-advising-someone-to-take-steps-to-protect-themselves-and-victim-blaming/844322/143 "2019-12-05T03:05:26Z")
To a victim in a drunk driving accident, which could be an innocent bystander or the passengers in the drunk driver’s car or the driver emself, it doesn’t matter whether the driver needs a driver’s license for work. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-the-line-between-advising-someone-to-take-steps-to-protect-themselves-and-victim-blaming/844322/144 "2019-12-05T03:14:30Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > About 43 percent of sexual assault events involve alcohol use by the victim; 69 percent involve alcohol use by the perpetrator. > > In one-third of sexual assaults, the aggressor is intoxicated. ?? The first statement seems to say that in two-thirds, not one-third, of sexual assaults the aggressor is intoxicated. > [@bengangmo](#): > > I warn all about the dangers of drink driving…but I am quick to acknowledge that the consequences are far greater for me (I MUST have a license for my job) than it is for someone who doesn’t drive for work. And my attitude is universally reflected amongst all people I know who are in the same situation. I’m puzzled by this. The potential consequences of drunk driving do include losing one’s license, yes. They also include dying or being permanently maimed in a car accident; killing and/or permanently maiming other people; and winding up with a long prison sentence for vehicular manslaughter. Those all strike me as far greater consequences than losing one’s license, even for people for whom losing the license means losing a job; and they’re all equally serious consequences for people who do and who don’t need a license to keep their job. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-the-line-between-advising-someone-to-take-steps-to-protect-themselves-and-victim-blaming/844322/145 "2019-12-05T03:20:35Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > I warn all about the dangers of drink driving…but I am quick to acknowledge that the consequences are far greater for me (I MUST have a license for my job) than it is for someone who doesn’t drive for work. And my attitude is universally reflected amongst all people I know who are in the same situation. Do you really not understand the craziness of you comparing a driver vs. a non-driver in the context of drunk driving to a man versus a woman in the context of violence? Do you not understand why this comparison makes you look clueless about what we’re talking about? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-the-line-between-advising-someone-to-take-steps-to-protect-themselves-and-victim-blaming/844322/146 "2019-12-05T03:24:44Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > Well I don’t have a son but… > For my daughter, advice is more focussed on avoiding rape, for teen boys that I know (remembering I’m old and don’t party) it is more focussed on avoiding aggression. But is it neither all one nor all the other. For teen boys they do get advice on how not to be rapists as well. > Although I must admit - the other day I was compelled to warn my demon spawn that behaving “this way” is a good way to get herself into a fight when out at a club, where alcohol makes fuses shorter. > > I warn all about the dangers of drink driving…but I am quick to acknowledge that the consequences are far greater for me (I MUST have a license for my job) than it is for someone who doesn’t drive for work. And my attitude is universally reflected amongst all people I know who are in the same situation. So your friends who don’t drive for work are more likely to drive drunk? Why are they still your friends? I don’t see this as an analogous situation. No one should ever drink and drive regardless of their circumstances. And the laws and punishments are written to enforce that value. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-the-line-between-advising-someone-to-take-steps-to-protect-themselves-and-victim-blaming/844322/147 "2019-12-05T03:28:22Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > ?? > > The first statement seems to say that in two-thirds, not one-third, of sexual assaults the aggressor is intoxicated. > > I’m puzzled by this. The potential consequences of drunk driving do include losing one’s license, yes. They also include dying or being permanently maimed in a car accident; killing and/or permanently maiming other people; and winding up with a long prison sentence for vehicular manslaughter. Those all strike me as far greater consequences than losing one’s license, even for people for whom losing the license means losing a job; and they’re all equally serious consequences for people who do and who don’t need a license to keep their job. Meh - I think they’re likely being a little unclear about “alcohol use” and “intoxicated”. I didn’t write the report. Re: Drink driving people I know who have lost license \> people I know who are hurt by a drink driver The likelihood of the first is far greater than that of the second, although I do agree that the impact / consequences of the second are greater. In any case - after two standard beers I won’t drive, even though I am almost certainly still below the limit because, combined with the impairment, the risk to my license is simply not worth it. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-the-line-between-advising-someone-to-take-steps-to-protect-themselves-and-victim-blaming/844322/148 "2019-12-05T03:33:15Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > So your friends who don’t drive for work are more likely to drive drunk? Why are they still your friends? > > I don’t see this as an analogous situation. No one should ever drink and drive regardless of their circumstances. And the laws and punishments are written to enforce that value. That strikes me as more than just a little sanctimonious. The people that I know are not perfect, and neither would I want them to be. There are actions in my past that I now regret, there are things that I have done that were ill considered. I don’t know about your experience - in my experience there is also a rather large gulf between over the limit / shouldn’t be driving and drunk. By the same token - nobody should ever speed, how many people do you know that have speeding tickets? Why are you still friends with them? ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-the-line-between-advising-someone-to-take-steps-to-protect-themselves-and-victim-blaming/844322/149 "2019-12-05T04:20:24Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > ?? > > The first statement seems to say that in two-thirds, not one-third, of sexual assaults the aggressor is intoxicated. > > I’m puzzled by this. The potential consequences of drunk driving do include losing one’s license, yes. They also include dying or being permanently maimed in a car accident; killing and/or permanently maiming other people; and winding up with a long prison sentence for vehicular manslaughter. Those all strike me as far greater consequences than losing one’s license, even for people for whom losing the license means losing a job; and they’re all equally serious consequences for people who do and who don’t need a license to keep their job. I forget where I read it----Ann Jones, maybe, in “Next Time She’ll Be Dead,” or Lundy Bancroft------but they noted that abusers often abuse alcohol just enough to lower inhibitions or provide an alibi. When men and women drink they are regarded _very_ differently, though at least with regard to men, that might be changing. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-the-line-between-advising-someone-to-take-steps-to-protect-themselves-and-victim-blaming/844322/150 "2019-12-05T05:00:51Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I think the big unspoken issue is this: You need to recognize that threats can constrain one’s own freedom, (and hence take precautions to enhance safety) while _simultaneously pushing to expand the envelope of safety and rights._ You edited out the second paragraph, which involved an intoxicated woman in skimpy clothes tottering down a dark alley with a fistful of $100 bills. A man can do the equivalent----wearing a fancy suit-----but if he gets mugged, he won’t be blamed for it, instead of the attacker. That’s because we think men have rights to be safe in their persons and possessions, but deep down, society sees women as being uppity if we dare usurp that male right to not be blamed for _someone else’s actions against you._ Look at all the dress codes in this country, where women and girls wearing comfy clothes in, say, hot weather is _always_ regarded as distracting or an act of almost hostility against men and boys. Boys are “distracted”, we’re told. Yet boys wander around topless all day long without a single bit of criticism. It’s girls and women whose skin is regarded as nearly an act of hostility. Why? ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-the-line-between-advising-someone-to-take-steps-to-protect-themselves-and-victim-blaming/844322/151 "2019-12-05T05:34:52Z")
> [@margin](#): > > You edited out the second paragraph, which involved an intoxicated woman in skimpy clothes tottering down a dark alley with a fistful of $100 bills. A man can do the equivalent----wearing a fancy suit-----but if he gets mugged, he won’t be blamed for it, instead of the attacker. That’s because we think men have rights to be safe in their persons and possessions, but deep down, society sees women as being uppity if we dare usurp that male right to not be blamed for \*someone else’s actions against > > Why? He could? Since when? In all that I’ve seen and done a guy behaving that way would be called all kinds of a moron and told he deserved to be mugged. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-the-line-between-advising-someone-to-take-steps-to-protect-themselves-and-victim-blaming/844322/152 "2019-12-05T06:54:08Z")
> [@margin](#): > > You edited out the second paragraph, which involved an intoxicated woman in skimpy clothes tottering down a dark alley with a fistful of $100 bills. A man can do the equivalent----wearing a fancy suit-----but if he gets mugged, he won’t be blamed for it, instead of the attacker. … Yes, _yes_ he will. In a couple of FB groups I belong to a dude said his car was robbed, some jerk was going around and check unlocked car doors. No less than 1/3 of the posters- about 6- blamed _him_ for leaving his truck door unlocked. There have been like a half dozen incidents of this on my FB groups. Oh and having a package stolen off your porch- the dudes fault for not having a 'ring doorbell".:rolleyes: On another MB, some white dude was complaining he got mugged at gunpoint in Compton. Guess how many people blamed \*him \*for being in Compton? **Victim blaming is asexual. Jerks blame the victim.** Now sure for\* sexual assaults\*, it’s mostly the female victim who gets blamed-but since a extremely high % of sexual assaults are against women (and some vs kids of any sex) of course then the victim to be blamed is female. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-the-line-between-advising-someone-to-take-steps-to-protect-themselves-and-victim-blaming/844322/153 "2019-12-05T13:13:32Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > For me, at least, the problem with victim-blaming as it relates to sexual assault is that women are expected to substantially modify their lives in ways that men are not in order to avoid becoming a victim. When you tell a woman that she’s not safe alone outside in the dark in a quiet neighborhood, that’s blaming female victims of sexual assault because women, in particular, aren’t safe at night alone. A man who gets mugged in the same situation won’t be asked why he was even there. General safety advice doesn’t have the same connotation to me. The problem is when it’s “as a woman, it’s not safe to do these things, and you’re at fault if you don’t adapt to that.” I think some of this is hard coded into our genetics. Women being the given the ability to carry on the species are looked upon as more important, and as such we (as a whole WE) want to keep them safe. It is the primary reason that until recently women were not allowed to fight in wars on those front lines. As a husband, and a father, I very much treat my children (sons and daughters) differently but I would give them the same advice. With the caveat that I would be less mad at my sons if they did something inherently dangerous than if my daughters did. Is that the Patriarchal society we live in or something else? I don’t care to guess but it is no more victim blaming to tell someone you care about that maybe they need to modify behavior to lessen risk. Does it suck? Most assuredly but that is the world of today. Risk assessment is the job of the individual and those who care about said individual. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-the-line-between-advising-someone-to-take-steps-to-protect-themselves-and-victim-blaming/844322/154 "2019-12-05T13:31:34Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > In all that I’ve seen and done a guy behaving that way would be called all kinds of a moron and told he deserved to be mugged. People would blame him, yes, but if identified, the mugger would be arrested by the cops, tried by a court, and convicted by a jury. For sexual assault, those things are not givens. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-the-line-between-advising-someone-to-take-steps-to-protect-themselves-and-victim-blaming/844322/155 "2019-12-05T13:52:19Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > I think some of this is hard coded into our genetics. Women being the given the ability to carry on the species are looked upon as more important, and as such we (as a whole WE) want to keep them safe. It is the primary reason that until recently women were not allowed to fight in wars on those front lines. You are making an appeal to nature (genetics) but you are pointing to something that is very culture-specific. Female warriors have existed since the beginning of human history all throughout the world. Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-the-line-between-advising-someone-to-take-steps-to-protect-themselves-and-victim-blaming/844322/156 "2019-12-05T13:52:27Z")
> [@margin](#): > > You edited out the second paragraph, which involved an intoxicated woman in skimpy clothes tottering down a dark alley with a fistful of $100 bills. A man can do the equivalent----wearing a fancy suit-----but if he gets mugged, he won’t be blamed for it, instead of the attacker As others have said, I don’t think this is true at all. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-the-line-between-advising-someone-to-take-steps-to-protect-themselves-and-victim-blaming/844322/157 "2019-12-05T13:55:24Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > You are making an appeal to nature (genetics) but you are pointing to something that is very culture-specific. Female warriors have existed since the beginning of human history all throughout the world. > > Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk Enlighten me because all I found was this (short list and very specific definitions of warrior) > **[Women in ancient warfare](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_ancient_warfare)** > > The role of women in ancient warfare differed from culture to culture. There have been various historical accounts of females participating in battle. > This article lists instances of women recorded as participating in ancient warfare, from the beginning of written records to approximately 500 CE. Contemporary archaeological research regularly provides better insight into the accuracy of ancient historical accounts. > Women active in direct warfare, such as warriors and spies, are included in th... ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-the-line-between-advising-someone-to-take-steps-to-protect-themselves-and-victim-blaming/844322/158 "2019-12-05T14:10:07Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Try to be honest with yourself with this hypothetical: Let’s say some single dad was a drunk and he regularly let his creepy sister babysit. One day, turns out she’s in a blood cult and all of her buddies take turns slashing the kid’s arms and legs. How much time would you want to spend on the father’s drunkenness? If the likelihood that a drunk’s sister was in a blood cult was anything close to the likelihood that a nineteen year who wanted to “date” an eleven year old was up to no good[sup]\*[/sup], then just as much. Regards, Shodan [sup]\*[/sup]No, I am not going to dig up a cite. Deal with it. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-the-line-between-advising-someone-to-take-steps-to-protect-themselves-and-victim-blaming/844322/159 "2019-12-05T14:15:57Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > That strikes me as more than just a little sanctimonious. > > The people that I know are not perfect, and neither would I want them to be. There are actions in my past that I now regret, there are things that I have done that were ill considered. > > I don’t know about your experience - in my experience there is also a rather large gulf between over the limit / shouldn’t be driving and drunk. My experience is that drinking and driving isn’t an “oops that could have me/nobody is perfect/everybody speeds sometimes” situation. It’s a potentially deadly act. It’s a serious crime. In our groups someone who is driving either sticks to non-alcoholic beverages or drinks very little. (Since I don’t drink it’s often me who is driving. I’m happy to be available for that) And people in a group enforce the rule on each other—literally “friends don’t let friends drive drunk.” None of my close friends or relatives drive under the influence and no one in my close social networks has been cited for it. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-the-line-between-advising-someone-to-take-steps-to-protect-themselves-and-victim-blaming/844322/160 "2019-12-05T14:17:21Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > As a husband, and a father, I very much treat my children (sons and daughters) differently but I would give them the same advice. With the caveat that I would be less mad at my sons if they did something inherently dangerous than if my daughters did. > > Is that the Patriarchal society we live in or something else? I don’t care to guess… . Maybe you should? Maybe you should step back and consider how being harsher on your female children when they take risks might have negative effects on their development relative to your male children. I love my parents for not treating their female children like we were frail, delicate flowers just waiting to be gobbled up by the world. As they raised us, they encouraged us to do scary things. Doesn’t mean they didn’t worry. But when I rented a U-Haul van to move from northern NJ to South Florida all by myself as a twenty-something while in the midst of a hurricane, my parents did not block my way. They didn’t tell me I was making the worst decision ever. They just trusted that I would figure the shit out. Which I did. And when I got settled into my new apartment and I called them up to tell them I was OK, they congratulated me on being a bad ass. My father once told me that that day marked the moment when my parents realized I could take on the world. Everyone deserves parents who believe they can take on the world. I feel sorry for women who have been taught that they have to be extra cautious lest they disappoint their angry fathers. Meanwhile their brothers get to have all the fun and adventure and success they want. Even if it is hard-coded (I don’t think it is), you can still resist that impulse to be overprotective. My parents managed to figure out how to do this. Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-the-line-between-advising-someone-to-take-steps-to-protect-themselves-and-victim-blaming/844322.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wheres-the-line-between-advising-someone-to-take-steps-to-protect-themselves-and-victim-blaming/844322.md?page=9)