# Whew, my marriage is safe! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 8, 2006, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whew-my-marriage-is-safe/379556 "2006-11-08T14:58:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2006, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whew-my-marriage-is-safe/379556/21 "2006-11-08T19:44:52Z")
Is anyone really suprised about the Wisconsin thing? REALLY? I’ve lived in Northern Illinois all my life, and have spent plenty of time in Wisconsin, and I’ve never really gotten a ‘liberal’ vibe from the residents there. They’re no Southern Baptists, but liberal enough to allow gay marriage? No way. ---
**Author:** ![rainwalker78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb9ed0/32.png) [@rainwalker78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rainwalker78)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2006, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whew-my-marriage-is-safe/379556/22 "2006-11-08T21:25:05Z")
I wasn’t suprised that the ammendment passed. I was suprised by how much it passed. Jeeze, talk about a landslide. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2006, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whew-my-marriage-is-safe/379556/23 "2006-11-08T22:31:31Z")
Well, as a resident of Virginia, I’m tremendously relieved that I don’t have to worry about any of them HOMOS thinking they can come to MY state and get married. Typo Knig, Darlin, our marriage is SAFE!!! Cause, you know, if the ban hadn’t been passed, I just know Brucie was going to come and move in and split us up and make you change your orientation and marry him and totally destroy our innocent kiddies!! But I’m stunned that the very county I live in… nay, the very PRECINCT I VOTED AT, came out _AGAINST_ the constitutional amendment to keep the QUEERS from trying to imitate us DECENT folk. How will I live down the SHAME??? :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whew-my-marriage-is-safe/379556/24 "2006-11-09T01:19:07Z")
Unless I am wrong – and I am never wrong – they are headed directly into the Fireswamp. Err, I mean…unless I am wrong, doesn’t the Virginia amendment specifically state that Virginia won’t recognize same-sex unions or marriages performed in other states? What about Article Four of the US Constitution? [Article Four describes the relationship between the states and the Federal government, and amongst the states. For instance, it requires states to give “full faith and credit” to the public acts, records and court proceedings of the other states.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Four_of_the_United_States_Constitution) How does that work…or not work? Heck, now that I look into it it looks like our previous act (as opposed to amendment) did the same thing: [Na-na-na-Massachusetts-we’re-not-listening!](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmation_of_Marriage_Act_%28Virginia%29) How can that pass judicial scrutiny? Sailboat ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whew-my-marriage-is-safe/379556/25 "2006-11-09T03:02:34Z")
[QUOTE=Walter Windchill] We argue from time to time, and then there’s my alleged drinking problem and her alleged infidelity … [/QUOTE] Its all true. I pumped her while you were passed out under the table the other night. Sorry you had to hear it like this. ---
**Author:** ![DVsickgirlDV](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@DVsickgirlDV](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DVsickgirlDV)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whew-my-marriage-is-safe/379556/26 "2006-11-09T04:43:31Z")
[QUOTE=50million] Slight hijack: Does it strike anyone else as strange that this issue was very close in South Dakota, 52%/48% (52% voting to ban gay marriage)? To me this seems at odds with the fact that the ban on all abortions was also very close, 56%/44% (56% voting against a ban). [/QUOTE] L.A. Times wrote an article about this - how a state with the least populous gay population was divided against a gay marriage ban. Very interesting and I must say respect South Dakotians a bit more. > **[S. Dakota not so sure about gay-marriage ban](https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2006-nov-04-na-gaymarry4-story.html)** > > This is an unlikely state to blaze a trail for gay rights. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whew-my-marriage-is-safe/379556/27 "2006-11-09T06:54:26Z")
Oh, heck, I’ll gloat while I can. Here in Massachusetts, pro-gay-marriage candidates were elected into the governorship, lieutenant-governorship, attorney general’s office, and four additional state legislature seats. In fact, since the big court decision, no pro-equality incumbent has lost to a pro-bigotry challenger, and only open seat went against the gay marriage supporter (ironically when Cheryl Jacques resigned to head the Human Rights Campaign). Of course, the Constitutional Convention reconvenes in mere hours to take up the issue once again, with the four lame-duck legislators opposed to equal marriage rights still voting (and they only need 25% support to advance the ballot initiative to ban gay marriage towards the 2008 election). But, for the moment, it’s nice to look at the evidence of increasing tolerance. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whew-my-marriage-is-safe/379556/28 "2006-11-09T07:17:03Z")
[QUOTE=Sailboat] Unless I am wrong – and I am never wrong – they are headed directly into the Fireswamp. Err, I mean…unless I am wrong, doesn’t the Virginia amendment specifically state that Virginia won’t recognize same-sex unions or marriages performed in other states? What about Article Four of the US Constitution? [Article Four describes the relationship between the states and the Federal government, and amongst the states. For instance, it requires states to give “full faith and credit” to the public acts, records and court proceedings of the other states.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Four_of_the_United_States_Constitution) How does that work…or not work? Heck, now that I look into it it looks like our previous act (as opposed to amendment) did the same thing: [Na-na-na-Massachusetts-we’re-not-listening!](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmation_of_Marriage_Act_%28Virginia%29) How can that pass judicial scrutiny? Sailboat [/QUOTE] There is an excetion to the requirement for what the Supreme Court of the United States calls “public policy.” In _Pacific Employers Ins. Co. v. Industrial Accident Commission_, 306 U.S. 493, 502 (1939), we learn: > [@](#): > > [T]here are some limitations upon the extent to which a state may be required by the full faith and credit clause to enforce even the judgment of another state in contravention of its own statutes or policy. See Wisconsin v. Pelican Insurance Co., 127 U.S. 265; Huntington v. Attrill, 146 U.S. 657; Finney v. Guy, 189 U.S. 335; see also Clarke v. Clarke, 178 U.S. 186; Olmsted v. Olmsted, 216 U.S. 386; Hood v. McGehee, 237 U.S. 611; cf. Gasquet v. Fenner, 247 U.S. 16. And in the case of statutes, the extrastate effect of which Congress has not prescribed, as it may under the constitutional provision, we think the conclusion is unavoidable that the full faith and credit clause does not require one state to substitute for its own statute, applicable to persons and events within it, the conflicting statute of another state, even though that statute is of controlling force in the courts of the state of its enactment with respect to the same persons and events. If the legal pronouncements of one state conflict with the public policy of another state, the Constitution does not require the second state to enforce the pronouncements of the first state in contravention of its own public policy. ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whew-my-marriage-is-safe/379556/29 "2006-11-09T07:52:41Z")
[QUOTE=Daithi Lacha] Hey, the only way to get those guys apart is with a garden hose or a broom handle! **rimshot** Thank you, I’m here all week. Try the chowder! [/QUOTE] Pardon?? ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Purl\_McKnittington](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@Miss\_Purl\_McKnittington](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Purl_McKnittington)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whew-my-marriage-is-safe/379556/30 "2006-11-09T08:01:17Z")
[QUOTE=buttonjockey308] Is anyone really suprised about the Wisconsin thing? REALLY? I’ve lived in Northern Illinois all my life, and have spent plenty of time in Wisconsin, and I’ve never really gotten a ‘liberal’ vibe from the residents there. They’re no Southern Baptists, but liberal enough to allow gay marriage? No way. [/QUOTE] What parts of the state have you visited? I’ve lived in Wisconsin my entire life, and it wasn’t until I moved to the east side of the state that I encountered the kind of conservatives that were, well, vocal and hateful. The “conservatives” I know back home tend more to be libertarian than evangelical, if you can catch what I’m trying to say. I don’t know if my parents just hang with a gang of renegade, commie-pinko dairy farmers, or if Iowa County is an anomaly in the state. So, yes, I am surprised by the results, especially in regards to the death penalty advisory referendum. If you look at the [map of election results (WARNING: PDF)](http://www.madison.com/tearsheets/pdf/2006/11/09/WSJ/20061109-A-A-001--CN_-WSJ--.pdf)\*, you’ll see that the west side of the state voted more for the Democrats than the east and, to some extent, the north. My home county was the only one in the southwest, except for Dane County, to decide the marriage amendment by less than 5 percent (in favor of the amendment, natch). It’s hard to say how someone will vote on these things – you’d hardly expect my 70-year-old, Catholic grandmother to vote against the marriage amendment, but she did. It’s safe to say, though, that Wisconsin has been becoming less and less progressive with each generation. I can only imagine Fighting Bob LaFollette is rotating rather rapidly in his grave, spurred by the stupidity of many residents of this formerly fine state. \*I don’t know how much longer this will be available. It’s Wednesday’s front page from the Wisconsin State Journal, so it will probably be replaced on Thursday. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Purl\_McKnittington](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@Miss\_Purl\_McKnittington](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Purl_McKnittington)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whew-my-marriage-is-safe/379556/31 "2006-11-09T08:24:43Z")
[QUOTE=Miss Purl McKnittington] If you look at the [map of election results (WARNING: PDF)](http://www.madison.com/tearsheets/pdf/2006/11/09/WSJ/20061109-A-A-001--CN_-WSJ--.pdf)\*, you’ll see that the west side of the state voted more for the Democrats than the east and, to some extent, the north. [/QUOTE] [This](http://www.madison.com/wsj/uploads/dir/elxmap119.pdf) is probably a better link to the graphic I linked to before. It should be available for a couple days. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Big\_Cheese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8baadc/32.png) [@The\_Big\_Cheese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Big_Cheese)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whew-my-marriage-is-safe/379556/32 "2006-11-09T11:14:42Z")
I don’t think Wisco is overly liberal. We do vote for the maverick/Feingold, here and there…but we barely went for Kerry 2 yrs ago, the northern part of the state is rather conservative, as is the rich districts around Milw… I thought it would pass, but not by that margin. Sad. So much hate towards a group of people to do that. I’m not married, but when/if I do become, I won’t feel any better about it knowing some of my friends can’t be. ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whew-my-marriage-is-safe/379556/33 "2006-11-09T12:12:44Z")
Yanno what I would like to see? An Amendment making Heterosexual Marriages Unconstitutional. Yeah. I can see the Queer picket signs now: \* How Do You Like Them Apples?\* ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whew-my-marriage-is-safe/379556/34 "2006-11-09T12:26:33Z")
Hey, my favourite argument re all these things is to bring up Tradition. Tradition is a Big Thing where I live, see. It’s so important that for over 1000 years the immense majority of our laws weren’t in writing. After all, who needs to write Tradition down? We’d put our laws in writing only when there was an exception and, once, when we imported a new King and he said he’d rather open a book than go pick old folks’ brains. (This is called “derecho consuetudinario” in Spanish, “law by general consent” more or less). So, people will start yapping about same-sex marriage, or about wanting to have the same rights and duties as married people (including a registry) but without being married, and I’ll bring out a few tradition and point out flaws in their definitions (hell-looo, if it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck…). And I just love the point when I get to inform them that I’m using as my base - Catholic Church pre-Trento jurisprudence and Navarrese Traditions from Jupiter-doesn’t-know-when (because he wasn’t in the neighborhood yet). Let’s just go back to “if people in the village know those two belong together, they do and that’s it”. After all, it’s not like having a blood test guarantees responsible parenthood. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whew-my-marriage-is-safe/379556/35 "2006-11-09T12:29:05Z")
[QUOTE=Qadgop the Mercotan] What galls me most about Wisconsin’s amendment is that it bans both same sex marriage, and any domestic partnerships or marriage equivalents that might be proposed in the future. Talk about kicking a guy when he’s down. :mad: [/QUOTE] The Georgia amendment (passed in 2004) is the same way; not only that, but the part banning even civil unions was in the second paragraph – and only the **first** paragraph appeared on the ballot form! That means that at least some people who would have accepted civil unions (but not, for some reason, marriage) inadvertently voted against both. This seems a pretty clear violation of the state “one subject” law regarding amendments, but nevertheless it was upheld in court. Why the Hell do I live in Georgia? (Been asking myself that since 1988; the answer has always involved either a woman or finances.) ---
**Author:** ![Sean\_Factotum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Sean\_Factotum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sean_Factotum)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whew-my-marriage-is-safe/379556/36 "2006-11-09T13:32:33Z")
[QUOTE=Mama Zappa] But I’m stunned that the very county I live in… nay, the very PRECINCT I VOTED AT, came out _AGAINST_ the constitutional amendment to keep the QUEERS from trying to imitate us DECENT folk. How will I live down the SHAME??? :mad: [/QUOTE] Will in my precinct it was nearly 3 to 1 against the amendment. But I wasn’t surprised by that - what shocked me is that there were 299 other voters in my neighborhood that felt the same way as me on this one. ---
**Author:** ![brewha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@brewha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brewha)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whew-my-marriage-is-safe/379556/37 "2006-11-09T14:22:47Z")
Yep, WI just got a little more backward in my mind as well. Hey, at least we got the death penalty rollin :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whew-my-marriage-is-safe/379556/38 "2006-11-09T14:26:38Z")
Heck, considering the other news that came out on Tuesday, I’m starting to think we need to really protect the sanctity of marriage by banning celebrity marriages. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whew-my-marriage-is-safe/379556/39 "2006-11-09T14:51:59Z")
Scalia must be really happy. He always thought that courts (including his own) should not be making or even interpreting the laws, but that should be left to the legislatures or people. In Wisconsin, we bypassed the courts and went straight to a constitutional amendment for both the death penalty and the marriage provision. It’s what happens when the courts, with their precedent and wisdom, are left out of the process. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2006, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whew-my-marriage-is-safe/379556/40 "2006-11-11T01:43:10Z")
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan] You know, I’m **sorely** tempted to make a token donation in that fucktards name to NAMBLA (and then passing the information on to his enemies that “he’s” made a donation to those sickos) because of this. Mind you, this piece of dreck passed even though we _already_ have a law on the books prohibiting gay marriage, but I guess they were worried that while in the middle of a meth fueled, midnight hot gay sex orgy, the entire legislature would suddenly repeal that law and the entire state would awake to find that they were going to be compelled at gunpoint to pack fudge and lick box. Even worse, it took absolutely **no** time to get the damned thing on the ballot, **but** when we tried to get a lottery on the ballot, it took nearly **twenty fucking years** to do it! Along with numerous court challenges and lawsuits, even though the necessary amendment was written so that the profits from the lottery would go for _education_, and not for stupid shit. [/QUOTE] Its gay baiting. They just wanted to get the vote out among those who would feel strongly about gay marriage (and there are a lot more who strongly oppose gay marraige than strongly support gay marraige). The demographic lines up pretty well if you want to attract a lot of voters who are likely to vote Republican. Its mostly fear and ignorance (I don’t think its just a Christian thing as some have implied, I think there are people across the board who think there is soemthing wrong with homosexuality and beleive that it should be discouraged whenever possible. The problem is that many people just don’t believe the “we are born this way” argument. It wasn’t that long ago that homosexuality was a mental disease and people do not want to create a permissive environment for homosexuals. They do not want society to condone homosexuality by giving it the imprimatur of state sanctioned “marriage.” Most of America thinks that homosexuality is a sin (heck most of the world thinks homosexuality is a sin). You are going to have to change a lot of minds before we as a nation embrace gay marriage. Even more minds before they decide a child is better off adopted by a gay couple than sitting in an orphanage or foster home somewhere. However, I think we are close to the point where we respect civil unions (and repeal DOMA). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whew-my-marriage-is-safe/379556.md?page=1)