# Whi is Lin (surname) not spelled Ling? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 1, 2015, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whi-is-lin-surname-not-spelled-ling/729569 "2015-09-01T02:28:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2015, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whi-is-lin-surname-not-spelled-ling/729569/1 "2015-09-01T02:28:02Z")
The surname Lin is typically pronounced Ling (such as Jeremy Lin’s surname,) yet it’s often spelled Lin instead. Is there a reason that Ling, the more accurate pronunciation, isn’t the written surname instead? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2015, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whi-is-lin-surname-not-spelled-ling/729569/2 "2015-09-01T02:29:23Z")
…and, ironically, I spelled “Why” as “Whi.” ---
**Author:** ![dofe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ba0ec/32.png) [@dofe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dofe)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2015, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whi-is-lin-surname-not-spelled-ling/729569/3 "2015-09-01T02:53:53Z")
You’re not going to find specific reasons because naming conventions are as varied as the families who choose to spell their surnames differently. For Chinese surnames, things also get complicated because the pronunciation (and thus the spelling) will be different depending on what region of China the individual is emigrating from. For example, 李 (“Lee” as in “Bruce Lee”) is pronounced “Lei” in his native Cantonese, but it is pronounced as “Lee” in Mandarin and Taiwanese. So how would one determine the “correct” spelling in such a case? Also, see [the Ellis Island scene](https://youtu.be/ubT-Bm36L2U?t=2m5s) in Godfather. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2015, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whi-is-lin-surname-not-spelled-ling/729569/4 "2015-09-01T02:55:19Z")
Well, WAG, but presumably there are transliteration systems from Chinese characters into Roman characters which do not assume English orthography. An English speaker might see “Ling” and pronounce it as you do, but speakers of many other languages might see the same letters and voice a hard ‘g’ - linnguh. ---
**Author:** ![Darryl\_Lict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@Darryl\_Lict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darryl_Lict)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2015, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whi-is-lin-surname-not-spelled-ling/729569/5 "2015-09-01T05:06:35Z")
There is also the issue of when the particular Chinese person immigrated. Back around 1900 [Wade-Giles](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wade%E2%80%93Giles) romanization was popular where as the communists standardized on [Pinyin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wade%E2%80%93Giles) resulting in the quite different spellings of Peking and Beijing. A friend of mine’s last name is Chin and his great great grandparents came over some time around the gold rush. I heard that this would be spelled Xin in Pinyin but looking at wikipedia on the Xin dynasty, I may be mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2015, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whi-is-lin-surname-not-spelled-ling/729569/6 "2015-09-01T06:11:59Z")
As far as I can determine in a quick online search, Ling is not a Chinese last name. There is a Chinese name frequently given as Lin. There are a number of transliterations of it - Lin, Lim, Lam, Lum, and Liem: > **[Lin (surname)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lin_(surname))** > > Lin (\[lǐn\]; Chinese: 林; pinyin: Lín) is the Mandarin romanization of the Chinese surname written 林. It is also used in Taiwan, Japan, Korea, Singapore, Indonesia, Malaysia, Myanmar, Vietnam, Thailand and Cambodia. > Among Taiwanese and Chinese families from abroad, it is sometimes pronounced and spelled as Lim because many Chinese descendants are part of the Southern Min diaspora that speak Min Nan, Hokkien or Teochew. In Cantonese-speaking regions such as Hong Kong and Macau it is spelled as La... There is an English last name Ling: > **[Ling (surname)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ling_(surname))** > > Ling is a surname which can be of either Chinese, English, or Nordic origin. > "Ling" is the Roman alphabet spelling of multiple Chinese surnames. > According to traditional stories, the surname pronounced Líng (凌) in Mandarin originated during the Zhou Dynasty as an occupational surname for a court official responsible for the storage and handling of ice. King Wu of Zhou's brother Kang Shu \[zh\] had a son who held this post, and Kang Shu's descendants later adopted Líng as their surname. > There is ... I can’t find any evidence that anyone pronounces Jeremy Lin’s last name as “ling”. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2015, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whi-is-lin-surname-not-spelled-ling/729569/7 "2015-09-01T06:32:23Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > I can’t find any evidence that anyone pronounces Jeremy Lin’s last name as “ling”. In Mandarin, it most definitely is pronounced ‘Ling.’ ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2015, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whi-is-lin-surname-not-spelled-ling/729569/8 "2015-09-01T07:34:09Z")
Yeah, but does anybody in the U.S. pronounce it as “ling”? Furthermore, could you give me some evidence that the Chinese character that Jeremy Lin’s last name comes from is pronounced “ling”? The “n” sound and the “ng” sound are two distinct phonemes in Mandarin. (Yes, I’ve studied Mandarin, although it was a long time ago.) There are some characters in Mandarin pronounced “lin” and some pronounced “ling”. What is the pronunciation of the character that Jeremy Lin’s last name comes from? ---
**Author:** ![Darryl\_Lict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@Darryl\_Lict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darryl_Lict)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2015, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whi-is-lin-surname-not-spelled-ling/729569/9 "2015-09-01T07:43:51Z")
> [@Darryl\_Lict](#): > > A friend of mine’s last name is Chin and his great great grandparents came over some time around the gold rush. I heard that this would be spelled Xin in Pinyin but looking at wikipedia on the Xin dynasty, I may be mistaken. What I was actually thinking of was Qin Shi Huangdi, which I heard was an alternative spelling of Chin. ---
**Author:** ![RaffArundel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/87869e/32.png) [@RaffArundel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaffArundel)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2015, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whi-is-lin-surname-not-spelled-ling/729569/10 "2015-09-01T19:01:51Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > There is an English last name Ling: > > [Ling (surname) - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ling_(surname)) Weird, because when I first read this topic I thought of Lisa Ling and her sister Laura. Their grandfather apparently came from Guangdong in the 30s. So, at least then there was a Chinese transliteration to Ling - but no idea if the same characters were used as Jeremy Lin’s parents who came from Taiwan. I’m actually surprised the only non-European listed on that page is a video game character. I think I won’t put much stock in that page at all. > [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > I can’t find any evidence that anyone pronounces Jeremy Lin’s last name as “ling”. I agree. When he played for the Rockets I am very sure the announcers and the fans pronounced it “Lin” without the “g”. In fact, the nickname/callout “Linsanity” doesn’t make any sense if the “g” is pronounced. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2015, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whi-is-lin-surname-not-spelled-ling/729569/11 "2015-09-01T20:34:54Z")
I do not speak Chinese but when I hear Chinese speakers speak English, it sounds like a terminal n is pronounced by touching the rear of the tongue to the roof of the mouth, whereas native English speakers pronounce an n by touching the tip of the tongue to the roof of the mouth behind the front teeth. This rear-touch is heard by English speakers as “ng” because it approximates how the “ng” combination is pronounced in English. I don’t think it’s exactly the same sound. But a Chinese speaker would have to comment on this. It is not clear if any of the above posters speak Chinese. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2015, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whi-is-lin-surname-not-spelled-ling/729569/12 "2015-09-01T23:00:36Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > What is the pronunciation of the character that Jeremy Lin’s last name comes from? In Mandarin, it is pronounced Ling. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2015, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whi-is-lin-surname-not-spelled-ling/729569/13 "2015-09-01T23:57:29Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > In Mandarin, it is pronounced Ling. It’s [pronounced](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lin_Shuhao.ogg) “Lin.” Mandarin has another sound which has a nasal “ng” sound. The n here does not. Lin is a common surname here in Taiwan and is pronounced without the g. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whi-is-lin-surname-not-spelled-ling/729569/14 "2015-09-02T01:14:30Z")
RaffArundel writes: \> I’m actually surprised the only non-European listed on that page is a video game \> character. I just researched each of the people listed on that page. Andy, Cameron, David, James, John, Martin, Pehr Henrik, and Trevor appear to be of European ancestry. Jahja and Jason appear to be of Asian ancestry. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whi-is-lin-surname-not-spelled-ling/729569/15 "2015-09-02T02:16:19Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > In Mandarin, it most definitely is pronounced ‘Ling.’ Gotta cite for that? If you’re not a Chinese speaker, then I can understand that “lin” and “ling” may sound alike to untrained ears. In standard Mainland Chinese Mandarin pinyin Romanization system, “Lin” and “Ling” are clearly pronounced differently. Jeremy Lin’s chinese name is 林书豪. The “Lin” surname is one of the most popular in Chinese. And it’s not pronounced “Ling”. Furthermore, “Ling” in standard pinyin is not a family name. ---
**Author:** ![Mangosteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mangosteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangosteen)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whi-is-lin-surname-not-spelled-ling/729569/16 "2015-09-02T02:51:43Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > In Mandarin, it is pronounced Ling. I really have to wonder what you are talking about??? After spending years studying Mandarin and marrying a Taiwanese wife whose family name is 林 (Lin), I can most assuredly tell you that there is no “g” sound at all for this family name. There are names in Chinese that are pronounced “ling” 灵 (spirit, soul) or 铃 (bell, chime), but they are not surnames. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whi-is-lin-surname-not-spelled-ling/729569/17 "2015-09-02T16:16:20Z")
Is Lin maybe pronounced like lean, but with a shorter vowel? I could see that sounding like “ling” to some people, especially if the N sounds a bit different than a normal N. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whi-is-lin-surname-not-spelled-ling/729569/18 "2015-09-02T16:35:35Z")
> [@Mangosteen](#): > > I really have to wonder what you are talking about??? > > After spending years studying Mandarin and marrying a Taiwanese wife whose family name is 林 (Lin), I can most assuredly tell you that there is no “g” sound at all for this family name. I never said there was a G sound. I mean Ling as in long vowel. Pronounced “Lean.” FYI, I’m a native Mandarin speaker myself. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whi-is-lin-surname-not-spelled-ling/729569/19 "2015-09-02T16:36:52Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > Gotta cite for that? If you’re not a Chinese speaker, then I can understand that “lin” and “ling” may sound alike to untrained ears. I am a Mandarin speaker. Jeremy Lin’s surname, in _Mandarin_, is pronounced like “lean.” Not like “linn.” ---
**Author:** ![inscrutable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a88e4f/32.png) [@inscrutable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/inscrutable)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whi-is-lin-surname-not-spelled-ling/729569/20 "2015-09-02T16:43:02Z")
Once worked with a guy from Taiwan, and we would discuss language sometimes (I helped him with his English). His “last name” was Chang, and he said that the name Chan would indicate that the person was from Hong Kong, and the same for most names ending in n or ng. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whi-is-lin-surname-not-spelled-ling/729569.md?page=2)