# Which 2020 Democrat CAN defeat Trump? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 19, 2018, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-2020-democrat-can-defeat-trump/818218 "2018-07-19T18:35:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2018, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-2020-democrat-can-defeat-trump/818218/441 "2018-08-16T14:52:06Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Well, maybe be more clear next time. > > She won’t win. Too far left too open to attack. She is more open to attack and less likely to win that Hillary was. > > True, but do we want the tail to wag the dog? Far left progressives are the minority. Actually, she can win, she leads Trump by 7 in trial heat polls. Seems to me that the argument for not nominating her is “Getting rid of Trump is the most important thing”, in which case you go with Biden, who leads by twice as much. But if one is committed to a far left progressive, AND isn’t afraid to risk four more years of Trump, then Warren makes sense. I’d just make sure the person you’re talking to understands the risk. Biden vs. Trump is probably say, 90% chance of Dem win, while Warren vs. Trump is say, 75% chance, that’s a fairly significant risk. You also have to consider the midterms and how this sets things up for the next go around. Warren would probably take much harder midterm losses and would be a lot more likely to be succeeded by a Republican than Biden. So it’s all about priorities. Another argument against Warren is that she’s not going to implement far left policies anyway. because nothing gets past the most conservative Democrats in Congress. The limit of legislation is whatever Manchin and Collins support. Warren is not going to march into DC with 30 progressives having her back and get anything done. In the end, she’ll sign legislation approved by the voters of West Virginia and Indiana, not Massachusetts and California. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2018, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-2020-democrat-can-defeat-trump/818218/442 "2018-08-16T17:18:28Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > But if one is committed to a far left progressive, AND isn’t afraid to risk four more years of Trump, then Warren makes sense. OK, so, “one” is suicidally stupid in this scenario, and their ideas should be relegated to the “round file.” ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2018, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-2020-democrat-can-defeat-trump/818218/443 "2018-08-16T17:23:37Z")
I agree, but then I’m biased. I’m all in for Joe Biden. And the polling seems to indicate that an awful lot of people agree with me. Unfortunately, most of them probably aren’t Democratic primary voters. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2018, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-2020-democrat-can-defeat-trump/818218/444 "2018-08-16T17:30:45Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I agree, but then I’m biased. I’m all in for Joe Biden. And the polling seems to indicate that an awful lot of people agree with me. Unfortunately, most of them probably aren’t Democratic primary voters. I can’t believe I’m gonna say this, but I’m moving more and more in on Biden myself. I’ve never been crazy about the five or so celebrity Senators everyone is looking at. And I still think there’s a good chance a governor or even a mayor or someone from outside of politics (military, law, etc) swoops in and wows the electorate, but I do think Biden would be a solid choice. I mean McRaven is still a pipe dream of mine, but of those who are actually showing interest, I’m more and more good with Uncle Joe. Just wish he didn’t share a birthdate with Noah of “Noah and the Ark” fame. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2018, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-2020-democrat-can-defeat-trump/818218/445 "2018-08-16T19:00:16Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Actually, she can win, she leads Trump by 7 in trial heat polls. Seems to me that the argument for not nominating her is “Getting rid of Trump is the most important thing”, in which case you go with Biden, who leads by twice as much. > > But if one is committed to a far left progressive, AND isn’t afraid to risk four more years of Trump, then Warren makes sense. I’d just make sure the person you’re talking to understands the risk. . So did Hillary. I \*am \*afraid to risk that. Any sane person would be. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2018, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-2020-democrat-can-defeat-trump/818218/446 "2018-08-16T19:28:19Z")
Given that many Sanders supporters just didn’t want to support Clinton, I’d say a lot of far lefty types aren’t afraid to let Trump burn the whole thing down to make victory for them possible. After all, major change doesn’t come without a war or depression. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2018, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-2020-democrat-can-defeat-trump/818218/447 "2018-08-16T21:12:29Z")
Biden fell ill and can’t campaign for Democrats at the Illinois State Fair. > **[Joe Biden 'under doctor's orders' to skip Illinois State Fair Democrat Day](https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/joe-biden-falls-ill-wont-campaign-for-dems-at-illinois-state-fair/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=zCST%20Breaking%20News%20Ver%202%20%28Theme%20API%20Only%29&utm_term=BREAKING_YES)** > > The former vice president had been scheduled to take part in Thursday’s Illinois State Fair Democrat Day to help bolster support for state candidates. I still fell horrible about the coverage Clinton got with the pneumonia. Seems like we’d see the same shit with Trump lying about his health and endless questions and conspiracy theories/fake news about Biden should this happen on the campaign trail. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2018, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-2020-democrat-can-defeat-trump/818218/448 "2018-08-16T21:18:06Z")
I mean, it wasn’t just Hillary’s pneumonia, it was that video of her apparently collapsing and being shuffled off into an unmarked black van…you gotta admit that was some really bad optics, though obviously there was nothing she could have done about it. Despite the dubiousness of what Trump’s “doctor” may have reported, and despite his weight which a lot of people harp on, he never seemed unhealthy to me at any point; he had the energy to campaign his ass off all over the country, flying around to rallies multiple times each week and delivering very vigorous and animated stump speeches. I know everyone WISHES the guy would keel over, and a lot of the talk about Trump’s supposed poor health is just wish fulfillment; longevity seems to be in his genes, looking at his family history. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2018, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-2020-democrat-can-defeat-trump/818218/449 "2018-08-16T21:57:02Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > I mean, it wasn’t just Hillary’s pneumonia, it was that video of her apparently collapsing and being shuffled off into an unmarked black van…you gotta admit that was some really bad optics, though obviously there was nothing she could have done about it. Take a couple of days off? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2018, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-2020-democrat-can-defeat-trump/818218/450 "2018-08-16T22:18:38Z")
I know he’s just speaking out on Brennan’s security clearance situation, but [whenever McRaven gets in the news for slamming on Trump](https://www.politico.com/story/2018/08/16/william-mcraven-security-clearance-request-779989), I get a little excited. Not a lot, just a little. > [@](#): > > “Through your actions,” he wrote [in a WaPo editorial], “you have embarrassed us in the eyes of our children, humiliated us on the world stage and, worst of all, divided us as a nation.” Run, Mac, Run! ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2018, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-2020-democrat-can-defeat-trump/818218/451 "2018-08-16T22:21:13Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > I mean, it wasn’t just Hillary’s pneumonia, it was that video of her apparently collapsing and being shuffled off into an unmarked black van…you gotta admit that was some really bad optics, though obviously there was nothing she could have done about it. > > Despite the dubiousness of what Trump’s “doctor” may have reported, and despite his weight which a lot of people harp on, he never seemed unhealthy to me at any point; he had the energy to campaign his ass off all over the country, flying around to rallies multiple times each week and delivering very vigorous and animated stump speeches. I know everyone WISHES the guy would keel over, and a lot of the talk about Trump’s supposed poor health is just wish fulfillment; longevity seems to be in his genes, looking at his family history. If all you are doing is being flown around on one of the most comfortable air planes in the world (that trump complained that the bed was not big enough), and spending an hour or so doing what you enjoy doing, standing and talking in front of an adoring audience, that doesn’t really say to me that there is all that much stamina involved. It impresses his loyal fans, sure, but it would probably be a bit harder if he were actually involved in the running of the country. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2018, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-2020-democrat-can-defeat-trump/818218/452 "2018-08-16T22:37:11Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > 😕 I can see what thread I’m in by looking at the top of the page. What I can _NOT_ do is see whom you’re talking about without some extra clicks. > > “She … she … her … her … she … She … she … her.” > Her who? Oprah? Maxine? Nancy? Gal Gadot will be 35 by then, but I don’t think she’s American. I hope I don’t seem over-pedantic to suggest that you throw in an [antecedent](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/transcoded/7/71/En-ca-antecedent.oga/En-ca-antecedent.oga.mp3) every half-dozen pronouns or so. > > No problem! 🙂 I’d spend the extra clicks if I were really concerned about mystery woman’s identity. I’m just offering friendly advice about paragraph design. I’m sorry. Elizabeth Warren, the USA’s probable next President. \*If \*she wants it. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-2020-democrat-can-defeat-trump/818218/453 "2018-08-17T00:41:58Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > If all you are doing is being flown around on one of the most comfortable air planes in the world (that trump complained that the bed was not big enough), and spending an hour or so doing what you enjoy doing, standing and talking in front of an adoring audience, that doesn’t really say to me that there is all that much stamina involved. > > It impresses his loyal fans, sure, but it would probably be a bit harder if he were actually involved in the running of the country. During the campaign, he was still using his own plane. In fact, that may have helped him win as Trump focused on places that were an easy flight to and from NYC. Trump didn’t like spending the night anywhere else besides Trump Tower or one of his own properties during the campaign. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-2020-democrat-can-defeat-trump/818218/454 "2018-08-17T01:22:47Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > I’m sorry. Elizabeth Warren, the USA’s probable next President. \*If \*she wants it. Not a chance in a million. Hillary has a better chance. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-2020-democrat-can-defeat-trump/818218/455 "2018-08-17T08:49:10Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > I know he’s just speaking out on Brennan’s security clearance situation, but [whenever McRaven gets in the news for slamming on Trump](https://www.politico.com/story/2018/08/16/william-mcraven-security-clearance-request-779989), I get a little excited. Not a lot, just a little. > > Run, Mac, Run! Heh. I saw that and thought of you, particularly as he talked about what a “good leader” does. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-2020-democrat-can-defeat-trump/818218/456 "2018-08-17T09:42:50Z")
I also came here to post that Admiral McRaven is in the news: > [@Admiral William McRaven](#): > > Dear Mr. President: > > Former CIA director John Brennan, whose security clearance you revoked on Wednesday, is one of the finest public servants I have ever known. Few Americans have done more to protect this country than John. He is a man of unparalleled integrity, whose honesty and character have never been in question, except by those who don’t know him. > > _ **Therefore, I would consider it an honor if you would revoke my security clearance as well, so I can add my name to the list of men and women who have spoken up against your presidency.** _ > > Like most Americans, I had hoped that when you became president, you would rise to the occasion and become the leader this great nation needs. > > A good leader tries to embody the best qualities of his or her organization. A good leader sets the example for others to follow. A good leader always puts the welfare of others before himself or herself. > > Your leadership, however, has shown little of these qualities. Through your actions, you have embarrassed us in the eyes of our children, humiliated us on the world stage and, worst of all, divided us as a nation. > > If you think for a moment that your McCarthy-era tactics will suppress the voices of criticism, you are sadly mistaken. The criticism will continue until you become the leader we prayed you would be. Other than myself, only **Happy Lendervedder, chargerrich, Lamoral** have signed on to the _Draft McRaven_ movement. Get with us, Dopers! McRaven is only 62 years old — even younger than me and I’m a “spring chicken” — is that the problem? Democrats think we need an experienced person in his 80’s for the job? If we don’t draft him for President I still hope he’s asked to play a prominent role: keynote speaker, or running for Vice Pres. (PS: I first saw the McRaven letter [USA Today](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2018/08/16/william-mcraven-osama-bin-laden-raid-admiral-donald-trump-revoke-security-clearance-john-brennan/1015408002/). Don’t unmute the video that starts up at that page unless you have an empty stomach — the lies that come out of SHS’s barf-hole are nauseating.) ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-2020-democrat-can-defeat-trump/818218/457 "2018-08-17T09:53:59Z")
I’ll jump on McRaven movement. How do we know he’d even run on the (D) ticket though? I’m guessing if it were to come true, he’d be an (I). ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-2020-democrat-can-defeat-trump/818218/458 "2018-08-17T10:07:26Z")
> [@Locrian](#): > > I’ll jump on McRaven movement. How do we know he’d even run on the (D) ticket though? I’m guessing if it were to come true, he’d be an (I). 🙂 Recall 5-star General Eisenhower who was almost named President by acclamation even before he chose a party affiliation! But Ike’s choices were _ **D** _ and _ **R** _. He certainly gave no thought to _ **I** _. Anyone going _ **I** _ now — and that includes Bernie the Burner — has such a deluded grasp of today’s urgent political needs that I can only sneer in contempt. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-2020-democrat-can-defeat-trump/818218/459 "2018-08-17T10:18:51Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > 🙂 Recall 5-star General Eisenhower who was almost named President by acclamation even before he chose a party affiliation! > > But Ike’s choices were _ **D** _ and _ **R** _. He certainly gave no thought to _ **I** _. Anyone going _ **I** _ now — and that includes Bernie the Burner — has such a deluded grasp of today’s urgent political needs **that I can only sneer in contempt.** My bolding. ISWYDT. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-2020-democrat-can-defeat-trump/818218/460 "2018-08-20T23:46:44Z")
On the front page of CNN (yes, an opinion piece, but you gotta start somewhere): [McRaven for President in 2020](https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/20/opinions/admiral-mcraven-for-president-2020-trump-wheeler/index.html) I’m still not holding my breath that he runs, but damn it, a boy can dream. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-2020-democrat-can-defeat-trump/818218.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-2020-democrat-can-defeat-trump/818218.md?page=24)