# Which 2020 Democrat CAN defeat Trump? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 19, 2018, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-2020-democrat-can-defeat-trump/818218 "2018-07-19T18:35:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-2020-democrat-can-defeat-trump/818218/81 "2018-07-20T18:23:10Z")
I just don’t agree that the candidate has to be white to beat Trump. But he does have to have that stage presence and be able to “give it back” to him like you mentioned. What our guy needs to do is be able to debate Trump and be the brick wall of all brick walls. He can’t look rattled, can’t ever stumble over his words or appear weak or intimidated, and when you punch a brick wall - well, all you do is fuck up your hand. That’s what needs to happen when Trump tries to punch him. If Trump gets publicly humiliated - and I mean in an actual interaction with someone from the opposing side, and I mean truly humiliated, not all these things that everyone keeps saying he’s doing that are embarrassing and humiliating but which his base actually eats up - in layman’s terms, if he looks like a bitch - he will lose face, and that means he will lose votes. Yeah, “he looks like a bitch right now, with Putin.” No. Not really. Not in the eyes of his supporters. To them, he looks like he’s built an alliance with Putin. He looks like he’s got the toughest kid at school sitting at his table at lunch. That’s what it looks like to them, not humiliation, not submission. I think he’s a thin-skinned guy and I think he could absolutely be made to crack in a debate, but it would take the right kind of opponent to give it to him. Biden could probably do it. Anyone who served in combat in the military and who was willing to play the “I’ve been there and done that, have you?” card, could probably do it if they worded it right. Anyone willing to hit him below the belt with references to his sexual proclivities and call him an outright pervert on the debate stage, could probably do it. The insults would have to be dripping with scorn and delivered without any trace of stumbling or try-hard-ism, they need to roll off his opponent’s tongue. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-2020-democrat-can-defeat-trump/818218/82 "2018-07-20T18:23:36Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Not a one of these men could get the nomination, in my opinion. > > And you want “bland” against Donald Trump? You think that’s what sells? People voted for someone to kick ass and take names, and now they’ll say, “Oh, no, I want the milquetoast!”? > > Now, Webb is _not_ bland. He can sound very, very serious about the national interest. Webb might make a good SecDef or SecState. But the Democratic Party voters basically ignored his Presidential run in late 2015 and he quit early. I don’t think the party are going to crawl back to him. > > O’Malley will probably _never_ live down the mass arrests. And he’s kind of a DLC type. Without progressives or minorities, he doesn’t have a chance. > > Tim Kaine? Nah. Now, he comes across as bland. > > And it’ll be a woman. And it _won’t_ be McCaskill. So, if we cant get someone who will win the election, then we might as well give up. Yes, bland is good, bland means nothing solid for the Kremlin and Rove to do their fake news on. Look, those men are leading state politicians, they certainly arent so bland they can win their Senatorship. And I had never even heard of those “mass arrests” (which really werent) before this. Cant live down? Most people never knew they happened. I agree, Webb could be good. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-2020-democrat-can-defeat-trump/818218/83 "2018-07-20T18:26:13Z")
**pkbites** I’d be interested in the thoughts of those who switched from Obama to Trump or third party as an important demographic. You however are not among the swingable. You thinking that your opinion should hold sway is a bit … cute. ---
**Author:** ![SingleMalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/singlemalt/32/3961_2.png) [@SingleMalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SingleMalt)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-2020-democrat-can-defeat-trump/818218/84 "2018-07-20T18:27:41Z")
I haven’t seen him mentioned yet, so I thought I’d ask. What are the thoughts on Chris Murphy of Connecticut? When I’ve seen him in interviews, he sounds confident and appears to have a grasp of the facts he’s trying to convey, but I honestly don’t know much about him. Pros and cons? ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-2020-democrat-can-defeat-trump/818218/85 "2018-07-20T18:28:12Z")
There’s “bland” and there’s “bland and also seeming like a wuss.” Kaine falls into the latter category. Someone with a bland exterior and calm demeanor, who can deliver a surprise dressing-down of Trump with intense and unexpected vitriol during the debates and stump speeches, would work. Webb isn’t bland, he’s a straight badass, nobody who was “in the shit” like he was can be called bland. He didn’t perform well in the debates last year, but that could be fixed with the proper coaching. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-2020-democrat-can-defeat-trump/818218/86 "2018-07-20T18:28:20Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I think all we have to do is ask ourselves one question: is our candidate’s name Hillary Clinton? If it is not, we win. She is the only Democrat who could have possibly lost in 2016 but very nearly pulled it out. Nope. Like I said, Bernie would have gone down in flames. The Kremlin would have manufactured evidence (amoung other things) that Sanders had been a real card carrying commie. Look, what lost the election was mostly the fake news coming from the kremlin. People bought into that crap. They are still spread it today, even here. Bernie-bros even helped spread those lies. That caused a lot of Dems to stay home or vote 3rd party, and energized the GOP core. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-2020-democrat-can-defeat-trump/818218/87 "2018-07-20T18:29:55Z")
> [@SingleMalt](#): > > I haven’t seen him mentioned yet, so I thought I’d ask. What are the thoughts on Chris Murphy of Connecticut? When I’ve seen him in interviews, he sounds confident and appears to have a grasp of the facts he’s trying to convey, but I honestly don’t know much about him. > > Pros and cons? Anyone who’s hitched his wagon to gun control as thoroughly as Murphy has, is a big liability. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-2020-democrat-can-defeat-trump/818218/88 "2018-07-20T18:35:16Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > This. > > This is why Trump will get reelected in 2020. This. This is laughable. \*You \*are not the people the Dems need to sway. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-2020-democrat-can-defeat-trump/818218/89 "2018-07-20T18:56:42Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > This. > > This is why Trump will get reelected in 2020. > > And in November that lesbian has a very high possibility of getting tossed out like last nights Shake-n-Bake bag. Wisconsin will actually be a Republican pick up in the Senate. > > Remember how you guys thought Russ Feingold was going to come back and defeat Tom Johnson? Feingold is more popular than Tammy Baldwin ever was and he lost! Interesting. How do you explain her ten point lead in the polls? You know, about the same lead Sherrod Brown has? ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-2020-democrat-can-defeat-trump/818218/90 "2018-07-20T18:58:14Z")
> [@SingleMalt](#): > > I haven’t seen him mentioned yet, so I thought I’d ask. What are the thoughts on Chris Murphy of Connecticut? When I’ve seen him in interviews, he sounds confident and appears to have a grasp of the facts he’s trying to convey, but I honestly don’t know much about him. > > Pros and cons? I’m pretty sure he’s clear that he’s not running. Otherwise I would see him as a potential good option. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-2020-democrat-can-defeat-trump/818218/91 "2018-07-20T19:53:16Z")
A good option needs to be more of a moderate on guns. As crazy as it seems, it is actually an important issue for a lot of voters. Biden is fairly moderate. He had a quip about shotguns being better than AR-15 type guns for home defense; a lot of gun owners mocked him (I remember a video that made the rounds, of small women firing AR-15s easily, and then various people firing shotguns and being knocked for a loop by the recoil), but at least he was acknowledging that guns have a place as weapons for personal defense, something that a lot of voters take very seriously. Jim Webb is openly pro-gun, making him a rarity among Democratic politicians; I’ve never met a Marine who wasn’t pro-gun. The single biggest issue that Chris Murphy seems to be known for, is being an outspoken advocate of gun control. Didn’t he once _cry_ publicly about it? I don’t see that playing well in Middle America. But as you point out, he’s not even running. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-2020-democrat-can-defeat-trump/818218/92 "2018-07-20T20:08:05Z")
I don’t see Los Angeles Mayor [Eric Garcetti](https://www.politico.com/story/2017/05/23/eric-garcetti-isnt-running-for-president-wink-wink-238703) mentioned yet. Normally, Mayor to White House is a ludicrous jump. But we’ve long since turned ludicrous into a political starting point. Me? I love Cory Booker and want him to run. And in a few years that Joe Kennedy kid should step up. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-2020-democrat-can-defeat-trump/818218/93 "2018-07-20T20:11:06Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > You thinking that your opinion should hold sway is a bit … cute. And your thinking that hauling out the same old tired leftist type candidates is going to win a national election is encouraging. To my side, anyway. Guns, abortion, taxes, immigration, etc.. All your side does is ramble on about how the right needs to compromise on those issues. But nationally we are winning with them and you are not. And the suggestion that maybe the left is the one who should compromise is met with 'shut up, your opinion doesn’t count." Obnoxious and arrogant. That’s exactly what the majority of voters want to hear. “Their opinion doesn’t count”. Let me know how that works out for you. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-2020-democrat-can-defeat-trump/818218/94 "2018-07-20T20:31:12Z")
The situation is exactly the same as 2016. As long as they don’t put up Hilary(or Chelsea as some morons are pushing),The Dems will win in a landslide. Assuming Trump does run in 2020. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-2020-democrat-can-defeat-trump/818218/95 "2018-07-20T20:42:10Z")
**pkbites** Let me be extremely clear: _ **YOUR** _ opinion is what does not count. The majority of voters’ opinions matter lots. “The majority of voters” who voted in fact voted for Clinton. And for Obama twice. And for Gore … The majority of voters who voted though is not enough. Da rulz are da rulz. Da game is da game. But do not delude yourself into thinking that we have anything other than a minority of voters being able to impose their will upon the majority. And feel free to delude yourself into thinking that the R side can just play up all gun control is evil, choice is evil, giving the rich more is good, and immigrants are rapists and terrorists, and keep winning. Those are not the positions of the center and being against those positions is not “leftist”. Structural factors being what they are the Ds need _more_ than a majority to overcome the current tyranny of the minority. The R side painting itself into a corner with pandering to what are minority viewpoints in this country, not listening or paying attention to what the majority actually want, will help get the D side there faster. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-2020-democrat-can-defeat-trump/818218/96 "2018-07-20T20:43:19Z")
The situation is NOT THE SAME! Trump will have a new asset that he lacked before: four years of presidential experience. And the incumbent president usually wins the election. Most people _really don’t understand how much Trump’s supporters like him._ And a lot of liberals live in an echo chamber. The fact is, his base thinks he’s doing a GREAT job. They love his connection to Russia; they don’t view it as him being Putin’s bitch, they view it, like I said, as if he’s gotten the toughest kid at school to sit at the table with him at lunch. They love how outspoken he is, how he never backs down and never apologizes for anything; the trollish types and alt-right love the never-ending stream of “liberal tears” that he causes, and the more mature and ideological conservatives like that he’s nominated conservative justices to the Supreme Court. I can’t believe that after all this time, people are still so blindered! ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-2020-democrat-can-defeat-trump/818218/97 "2018-07-20T20:48:15Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Your answer to Trump is to run someone to the left of Marx? Good. Guaranteed win for my side. > > Trump is nuts but other than the 1 Democrat I suggested I’ll take him over anything you guys offer up. > And so will the rest of the country. The left just doesn’t learn, do they? You’re willing to vote for Trump again, and _we’re_ the ones who don’t learn? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-2020-democrat-can-defeat-trump/818218/98 "2018-07-20T21:18:25Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > The situation is NOT THE SAME! > > Trump will have a new asset that he lacked before: four years of presidential experience. And the incumbent president usually wins the election. > > Most people _really don’t understand how much Trump’s supporters like him._ … Trump will also have a liability he lacked before: four years of him being president. 🙂 Seriously though. People often vote for change and he was certainly change. Next time he is not change, he will that which needs to be changed … like the dirty diaper he is. And factually you are wrong. Last eight presidents. One term four times and a second term four times. The incumbent failed to have a second term as often as they had a second term. Longer term view? [This](https://www.thedailybeast.com/for-us-presidents-odds-for-a-second-term-are-surprisingly-long) when Obama was up for re-election: “Of the 42 men who served as president before the current incumbent, only 15 won two consecutive elections.” Not much of an advantage that. People understand how much his supporters like him. They are about a third of the voters and they support him no matter what. They love him! And those are a cohort that would never have voted D. About 45% dislike him pretty much as strongly (with current disapproval at about 53%, no other modern president has been as disapproved by so many for as much of their presidency). He lost the popular vote by 2% and won anyway, so he has some potential structural advantage built in. But a third of voters are not enough to win the electoral college even with those structural advantages. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-2020-democrat-can-defeat-trump/818218/99 "2018-07-20T21:46:30Z")
Yeah, I think it’s at least as accurate to say that lots of people are living in a conservative echo chamber and have no idea how much Trump’s detractors dislike him. And the detractors substantially outnumber the supporters. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-2020-democrat-can-defeat-trump/818218/100 "2018-07-20T21:53:49Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > A good option needs to be more of a moderate on guns. As crazy as it seems, it is actually an important issue for a lot of voters. That is true. But every one I know is a single issue gun voter and they vote 100% always GOP. I dont think chasing them is the answer. BUT yes, the Dems need to be more moderate on Gun control. Like “Look the 2nd Aad is the law of the law. However, we should be able to get some effective gun measures in without infringing that important part of the Bill of Right, like bans on bump stocks.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-2020-democrat-can-defeat-trump/818218.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-2020-democrat-can-defeat-trump/818218.md?page=6)