# Which Academy Awards should be revoked? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 27, 2004, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-academy-awards-should-be-revoked/281726 "2004-12-27T01:44:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![malkabat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@malkabat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/malkabat)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-academy-awards-should-be-revoked/281726/21 "2004-12-27T04:57:44Z")
> [@](#): > > Where’s Bebe Neuwerth when you need her? She’s three times the Roxie (Roxy?) that Renee is, easily. Except that Bebe played Velma in the current revival, not Roxie. And, so as not to go \*too \* OT, Zeta Jones really impressed me with her singing and dancing. She wiped the floor with Zellweger, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-academy-awards-should-be-revoked/281726/22 "2004-12-27T04:58:07Z")
I don’t really see how you could have _Annie Hall_ over _Star Wars_ _Ghandi_ over _ET_ _Rocky_ over _Network_, _All the President’s Men_, and _Taxi Driver_ _Kramer vs. Kramer_ over _Apocalypse Now_, _All that Jazz_, or even _Alien_ ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-academy-awards-should-be-revoked/281726/23 "2004-12-27T04:58:34Z")
> [@AwSnappity](#): > > At the risk of hijacking this thread, care to explain why? > Here’s the [Academy definition](http://www.oscars.org/76academyawards/rules/rule12.html): > \*"I. DEFINITION > > 1. An eligible documentary film is defined as a theatrically released \*_non-fiction \*\* motion picture dealing creatively with cultural, artistic, historical, social, scientific, economic or other subjects. It may be photographed in actual occurrence, or may employ partial re-enactment, stock footage, stills, animation, stop-motion or other techniques, as long as the emphasis is on fact and not on fiction._ (bolding mine) Search for _Bowling For Columbine_. We have argued at length as to whether or not Moore’s film fits the Academy definition. ---
**Author:** ![AwSnappity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a3d4f5/32.png) [@AwSnappity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AwSnappity)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-academy-awards-should-be-revoked/281726/24 "2004-12-27T05:01:58Z")
Sorry, I’m going to have to defer to the Academy on that one. I think they have a pretty good idea about what they’re doing. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-academy-awards-should-be-revoked/281726/25 "2004-12-27T05:02:17Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I don’t really see how you could have > > _Annie Hall_ over _Star Wars_ > _Ghandi_ over _ET_ :eek: You have got to be kidding, right? _Star Wars_ is a joke. There is not one single thing in that movie that is original, and the performances of the actors is wooden at best. (I love the movie, but Oscar-worthy it ain’t!) Ditto for the treacle that is _ET_. The other ones you mention I agree with totally. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-academy-awards-should-be-revoked/281726/26 "2004-12-27T05:02:49Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > _Kramer vs. Kramer_ over _Apocalypse Now_, _All that Jazz_, or even _Alien_ Seriously? Kramer v. Kramer over any one of those movies! Yikes. That’s just wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Mauvaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mauvaise/32/11084_2.png) [@Mauvaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mauvaise)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-academy-awards-should-be-revoked/281726/27 "2004-12-27T05:03:10Z")
> [@Big Bad Voodoo Lou](#): > > I hated the syrupy feel-good Forrest Gump and would’ve preferred to see Pulp Fiction win Best Picture in 1994, but you know what? The Shawshank Redemption should have beaten them both. What a rip-off. That’s exactly what I came in here to post. The Shawshank Redemption was, by any measuring device, the best move of '94. And if for some completely unfathomable reason you don’t like that movie - Pulp Fiction blew Forrest Gump away. God I hated that movie. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-academy-awards-should-be-revoked/281726/28 "2004-12-27T06:37:22Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#): > > Give BfC an Academy Award in a new category, like “Film Editorial” or something. But the documentary genre isn’t well represented by BfC at all. Not that I’m a huge Michael Moore fan, but the central reason anyone makes this criticism is that Moore is famous. Prior to Moore, nobody gave a shit about this award. Many of the nominated documentaries, and many of the winners, have been even MORE biased and politically twisted as “Bowling for Columbine.” There was nothing about BfC that was even the slightest bit unusual for an Oscar-nominated documentary, except that it was famous. Its level of bias and fact-playing was perfectly in line with the history of the medium in general and Oscar-nominated documentaries in particular. And as has already been established, the rules clearly include it. Meaning no offense, the only reason you’re making this argument is that A) it was famous, as opposed to the dozens of equally creatively biased documentaries nominated for Oscars that you wouldn’t know if they bit you in the ass, B) you don’t like Moore, and C) you have been misinformed as to what a “documentary” is, either in cinematic terms or as specifically defined by the Academy. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-academy-awards-should-be-revoked/281726/29 "2004-12-27T06:48:02Z")
As to the usual bashing of “Forrest Gump,” 1. I love “Pulp Fiction” too, and if I’d had a vote I would have voted for it. But Forrest Gump was still great and wasn’t a bad choice. I have never understood the amazing vitriol directed towards this outstanding movie. It was a remarkably clever movie - flashy and amusing, but with lots of serious subtext and meaning woven into a solid and interesting story. 2. I’ve never understood the obsession with “The Shawshank Redemption.” Good movie. Not great. Deserved no awards. If you want to pick out some Oscars that went to pictures that didn’t deserve it, picking on films like “Forrest Gump” and “Titanic” betrays recency effect. There have been movies that won the Best Picture award that weren’t half the movies “Titanic” was. Around The World In Eighty Days? Oliver!? Tom Jones? Ordinary People? Blech. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-academy-awards-should-be-revoked/281726/30 "2004-12-27T06:49:36Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Not that I’m a huge Michael Moore fan, but the central reason anyone makes this criticism is that Moore is famous. Prior to Moore, nobody gave a shit about this award. > > Many of the nominated documentaries, and many of the winners, have been even MORE biased and politically twisted as “Bowling for Columbine.” There was nothing about BfC that was even the slightest bit unusual for an Oscar-nominated documentary, except that it was famous. Its level of bias and fact-playing was perfectly in line with the history of the medium in general and Oscar-nominated documentaries in particular. And as has already been established, the rules clearly include it. > > Meaning no offense, the only reason you’re making this argument is that A) it was famous, as opposed to the dozens of equally creatively biased documentaries nominated for Oscars that you wouldn’t know if they bit you in the ass, B) you don’t like Moore, and C) you have been misinformed as to what a “documentary” is, either in cinematic terms or as specifically defined by the Academy. I respond with: So? We’re in a thread where people are saying X person doesn’t deserve an ward because “the plot was stupid” or “this was retarded” et cetera. So I really don’t see the reason to have any objections over this one. Maybe the Academy Awards (which BTW I’ve never watched because I don’t really give a damn how entertainment people decide to award themselves, as they do things to get acclaim from viewers, so how they are received by their peers doesn’t matter much to me) has awarded a lot of Oscars to documentaries that very dangerously skirt the definition, I don’t know. I just know if the AA is going to have a documentary award it should probably be a bit more fleshed out than it is and certainly try to hit at the real nature of documentary films, which BfC really isn’t. Because BfC almost seems like a mixture of political grandstanding and Tom Greenesque humor. The fact is the “non-fiction” part of Moore’s documentary is rambling and not really coherent, which IMO means it’ shard to say Moore’s work is really primarily a non-fiction work as opposed to an entertainment or editorial piece. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-academy-awards-should-be-revoked/281726/31 "2004-12-27T07:13:44Z")
Marisa Tomei for _My Cousin Vinny_. She was up against some of the greatest actresses of our time: Judy Davis for _Husbands and Wives_, Joan Plowright for _Enchanted April_, \*Vanessa Redgrave \* for Howards End, and _Miranda Richardson_ for Damage. I mean, really now, the only thing she’s got that they don’t have is… she’s an American. Al Pacino for _Scent of a Woman_. I love Al Pacino, but he should have won for _Serpico, Godfather, Dog Day Afternoon_, hell, even _Glengarry Glen Ross_, but not for this overacted dreck. I hate it when the Academy gives what seems like an apology award, and this one and Judi Dench’s for _Shakespeare in Love_ sure qualify. Why she didn’t get it for her role as Mrs. Brown (in a fantastic movie) when Helen Hunt got it for _As Good as it Gets_ (an OK movie but wildly overrated) is beyond me. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-academy-awards-should-be-revoked/281726/32 "2004-12-27T08:28:29Z")
The fact that Denzel even got considered for nomination in _Training Day_ blew my mind. It was a decent performance in a piece of crap, summer popcorn movie. Wow. ---
**Author:** ![Judith\_Prietht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b19c9b/32.png) [@Judith\_Prietht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Judith_Prietht)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-academy-awards-should-be-revoked/281726/33 "2004-12-27T16:30:04Z")
Cuba Gooding, Jr., Best Supporting Actor for **Jerry Maguire**. Other nominees that year (thanks, IMDB) were William H. Macy for **Fargo** , James Woods for **Ghosts of Mississippi** , Edward Norton for **Primal Fear** , and Armin Mueller-Stahl for **Shine**. Dock points for the most annoying catchphrase of the year; playing the Mystical Minority in **Men of Honor** and **What Dreams May Come** ; playing the mentally challenged in **Radio** ; and appearing in **Boat Trip** , **Snow Dogs** , and **Chill Factor**. Also, the Best Animated Feature should have existed in 2000 so it could have gone to **South Park**. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-academy-awards-should-be-revoked/281726/34 "2004-12-27T16:49:50Z")
Have I missed where someone jumps in and says Saving Private Ryan over Shakespeare In Love? That usually goes first. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-academy-awards-should-be-revoked/281726/35 "2004-12-27T17:55:39Z")
All-time worst Best Picture: **Oliver!** over **2001**. ---
**Author:** ![Odinoneeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/97f17d/32.png) [@Odinoneeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odinoneeye)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-academy-awards-should-be-revoked/281726/36 "2004-12-27T18:01:38Z")
Angelina Jolie - Girl Interrupted ---
**Author:** ![mobo85](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mobo85](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mobo85)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-academy-awards-should-be-revoked/281726/37 "2004-12-27T18:43:39Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > **Shrek** for best Animated Film of 2002. By all rights, it should have gone to _Monsters Inc.,_ which was a better example of animated storytelling and a better movie to boot. **Shrek** was a good movie, but it wasn’t a great one. I personally wasn’t a fan of any of Pixar’s films except for the two _Toy Stories_ and _The Incredibles_, and I also thought _Shrek_ was overrated. I guess that means I’d have given the trophy to _Jimmy Neutron_. ---
**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-academy-awards-should-be-revoked/281726/38 "2004-12-27T18:50:00Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > **Shrek** for best Animated Film of 2002. By all rights, it should have gone to _Monsters Inc.,_ which was a better example of animated storytelling and a better movie to boot. **Shrek** was a good movie, but it wasn’t a great one. > > Mark my words, ten years from now, people will look at that Animated Movie Oscars race and go, “What were they thinking?” I disagree with that. I felt _Shrek_ was much more clever and certainly less formulaic than _Monsters, Inc.__Monsters_ was better than the normal standard Disney stuff, true, but not outstanding. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-academy-awards-should-be-revoked/281726/39 "2004-12-27T19:07:27Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Ordinary People? Rats, beaten to the punch. I’ve seen most of the Best Picture winners, and this was the most “blah” by far. And what the hell was with **Out Of Africa** winning over **The Color Purple**? What a snore that movie was… ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-academy-awards-should-be-revoked/281726/40 "2004-12-27T19:23:26Z")
Remember **Chariots of Fire** beating **Raiders of the Lost Ark** for Best Picture? Shit, has anyone even **seen** Chariots? It’s like it was scrubbed out of human consciousness. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-academy-awards-should-be-revoked/281726.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-academy-awards-should-be-revoked/281726.md?page=3)