# Which Anglophone Former Colony Is Most Solicitous Of Its Aboriginals? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 15, 2009, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-anglophone-former-colony-is-most-solicitous-of-its-aboriginals/496568 "2009-05-15T20:29:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![hansel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@hansel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hansel)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-anglophone-former-colony-is-most-solicitous-of-its-aboriginals/496568/21 "2009-05-16T21:55:11Z")
No Canadian should argue that we have a _good_ record of interaction with First Nations, but a lot of important steps forward have occurred in the last couple decades that do a lot towards correcting historical injustices. Nunavut boy can testify to one. For myself, I was at the signing of the [Tsawwassen First Nation](http://www.tsawwassenfirstnation.com/)’s [treaty](http://www.gov.bc.ca/arr/firstnation/tsawwassen/) on April 3rd of this year that granted them self-government within the framework of the Canadian constitution, and includes a small land grant and significant cash payments over the next few years to get them established. I’m not aware of any similarly large steps in the rest of the Commonwealth. Other negotiations with First Nation bands are underway with similar aims. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-anglophone-former-colony-is-most-solicitous-of-its-aboriginals/496568/22 "2009-05-16T21:59:06Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > 😕 You can’t seriously mean the U.S. has a better record than NZ! I know this may come as a shock to you, but there are a LOT of places were, bad as the US treatment of the NA population, others got it much much worse. For example, there wasn’t a lot of government sanctioned kidnapping of NA children in the US, so they could be raised in gov’t affiliated schools “correctly”. I understand that this happened in New Zealand as recently as the 1960’s? I am going off memory here, so of course that is highly suspect. I have a baised viewpoint on the issue, as my grandmother was a strong proponent of NA rights and what-not in Montana, so I’ll bow out here. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-anglophone-former-colony-is-most-solicitous-of-its-aboriginals/496568/23 "2009-05-16T22:11:41Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > On the basis of what I’ve read, I would rank the four countries in this order from the best record of how they have treated their aboriginal inhabitants to the worst record: > > 1. Canada Even “best” ain’t that good. May as well rank from least worst to most worst. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-anglophone-former-colony-is-most-solicitous-of-its-aboriginals/496568/24 "2009-05-17T00:39:55Z")
Bryan Ekers writes: \> Even “best” ain’t that good. May as well rank from least worst to most worst. I agree. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-anglophone-former-colony-is-most-solicitous-of-its-aboriginals/496568/25 "2009-05-17T01:08:06Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] You can’t seriously mean the U.S. has a better record than NZ! [/QUOTE] Well…‘better’ is a matter of perspective. It does not equate to ‘good’. But bad as the US was (and I don’t think anyone would claim we weren’t really REALLY bad), I think we are pretty far down the list of most egregious offenders. And it gets worse when you look further back in time. Read the bible some time, or look at some of the other ancient civilizations and see how THEY handled aboriginal peoples in territory they conquered. It wasn’t unheard of for entire regions to be deliberately and brutally depopulated. I seem to recall the story of the Mongols (or perhaps it was the Huns) taking a city and basically having each soldier take 10 citizens and butcher them. An army of 10,000 could basically slaughter an entire city in a few minutes that way. We are a pretty bloody, nasty species, all things said…and even the ‘better’ examples don’t exactly cover the host nations in glory. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-anglophone-former-colony-is-most-solicitous-of-its-aboriginals/496568/26 "2009-05-18T03:13:14Z")
> [@Tristan](#): > > For example, there wasn’t a lot of government sanctioned kidnapping of NA children in the US, so they could be raised in gov’t affiliated schools “correctly”. I understand that this happened in New Zealand as recently as the 1960’s? I am going off memory here, so of course that is highly suspect. Govt. sanctioned kidnapping of Maori children in NZ into the '60s? I don’t think so. Perhaps my google-fu is weak today, and if someone can offer a cite or site I’d be interested to have a look. Aboriginal kids were taken in Australia (though I don’t know the time period of that). ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-anglophone-former-colony-is-most-solicitous-of-its-aboriginals/496568/27 "2009-05-18T03:19:22Z")
> [@Apollyon](#): > > Aboriginal kids were taken in Australia (though I don’t know the time period of that). That’s the subject matter of the movie [Rabbit-Proof Fence](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0252444/), set in 1931. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-anglophone-former-colony-is-most-solicitous-of-its-aboriginals/496568/28 "2009-05-18T04:40:49Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > As for worse…I’m guessing Tasmania since they are all dead. There are (probably) no **full-bloods** left, but there are certainly [Tasmanian aboriginals](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tasmanian_Aborigines#After_European_Settlement) alive. ---
**Author:** ![caligulashorse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@caligulashorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caligulashorse)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-anglophone-former-colony-is-most-solicitous-of-its-aboriginals/496568/29 "2009-05-18T05:33:17Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > I’ve been told that they prefer to be called by their tribal affiliations (Sioux, Dakota, etc.), rather than by the term “Indian.” I don’t know how widespread this view is, but I tend to use the tribal affiliation (or more correctly (I think), nation names) when I can. Ya, usually. But, in many cases, people who are American Indians do not know what exactly their tribal background is. And, of course, sometimes we have to refer to all American Indian peoples for various reasons. As you can see, I prefer “American Indian”. As a side note, Dakota and Sioux are the same thing. Sorta. All Dakotas are Sioux, but so are Nakota and Lakota(largest tribe). ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-anglophone-former-colony-is-most-solicitous-of-its-aboriginals/496568/30 "2009-05-18T05:45:44Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > On the basis of what I’ve read, I would rank the four countries in this order from the best record of how they have treated their aboriginal inhabitants to the worst record: > > 1. Canada > 2. U.S. > 3. New Zealand > 4. Australia You’re not serious right? If you would really rank in that order I suggest that you do a LOT more reading. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-anglophone-former-colony-is-most-solicitous-of-its-aboriginals/496568/31 "2009-05-18T05:55:11Z")
My history is not strong, but a few pointers that should be considered here for the NZ experience 1. Maori had the vote from the beginning of the Treaty of Waitangi (although voting rights were based on land ownership so it was not a global fanchise, no group was disbarred based on their race) 2. New Zealands parliament has for the longest time had seats seat aside specifically for Maori representation 3. To the best of my knowledge, there has NEVER been any practise of formal / dliberate discrimination. Of course I am over simplifying here. BUT, we never had anything even approaching segregation in schools. These are just a few of the top of my head…to put the US above New Zealand in such a discussion is to me patently ridiculous. BTW - I klnow the meaning of Aboriginal, but am a bit uncomfortable with the term, as it does specifically also refer to Australian Aborigines, maybe a better term might be indiginous peoples? ---
**Author:** ![caligulashorse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@caligulashorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caligulashorse)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-anglophone-former-colony-is-most-solicitous-of-its-aboriginals/496568/32 "2009-05-18T06:45:07Z")
Umm, you guys are way off topic. The OP asked(and he was quite demonstrative of the point) about the CURRENT situation. Not 50 years ago, and definitely not 100+. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-anglophone-former-colony-is-most-solicitous-of-its-aboriginals/496568/33 "2009-05-18T11:32:02Z")
I’m still waiting for the OP to say how we (South Africa) are a “whole other mess”. Other than being the Anglophone former colony where the aboriginals _rule_, that is. ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-anglophone-former-colony-is-most-solicitous-of-its-aboriginals/496568/34 "2009-05-18T12:58:14Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > I thought most of the Carib indigenous populations were decimated through disease. The Brits hunted the indigenous Tasmanian s directly…like animals. They deliberately wiped them out. > > Granted, dieing from disease or starvation wouldn’t be fun either, and I’m certainly not going to be one to excuse the Spanish…but I think the Brits take the grand prize in this instance. > > -XT The Tasmanian Aboriginal population was reduced from around 5,000 to around 300 by disease and ill-treatment at the hands of the British. The last full-blooded Tasmanian Aboriginals died in the 19th century, however there are still people of mixed European/Tasmanian Aboriginal ancestry alive today. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-anglophone-former-colony-is-most-solicitous-of-its-aboriginals/496568/35 "2009-05-18T13:06:33Z")
> [@spoke-](#): > > That’s the subject matter of the movie [Rabbit-Proof Fence](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0252444/), set in 1931. A work of fiction taken by too many (not necessarily including you) as gospel. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-anglophone-former-colony-is-most-solicitous-of-its-aboriginals/496568/36 "2009-05-18T13:12:03Z")
google “stolen generation”. Australia’s practise of removing aboriginal children from their birth mothers and placing them with white christian families only ended in the 1970’s and there was only a formal apology by the Federal government in 2008 > **[Stolen Generations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen_Generation)** > > The Stolen Generations (also known as Stolen Children) were the children of Australian Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander descent who were removed from their families by the Australian federal and state government agencies and church missions, under acts of their respective parliaments. The removals of those referred to as "half-caste" children were conducted in the period between approximately 1905 and 1967, although in some places mixed-race children were still being taken into the Offi... [http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23206140-2,00.html](http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23206140-2,00.html) Some land has been returned to aborignal people’s but as far as I know there is no actual autonomy of aboriginal lands… so based on this I place Australia last. (I’m australian BTW, and not particularly proud of that aspect of our society…) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-anglophone-former-colony-is-most-solicitous-of-its-aboriginals/496568.md?page=1)