# Which battles in world history can be remembered as much/more for use of a new or unique weapon? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 3, 2013, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-battles-in-world-history-can-be-remembered-as-much-more-for-use-of-a-new-or-unique-weapon/654700 "2013-04-03T03:48:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-battles-in-world-history-can-be-remembered-as-much-more-for-use-of-a-new-or-unique-weapon/654700/41 "2013-04-03T15:40:27Z")
I thought it was the Berserkers, though I’m not finding a reference, but there was some force trained in the use of a unique long handled battle axe. My only recollection is this was used in some battle against English forces. The very long handle required special training to use it. Also, no comment on the Trojan Rabbit, or some other animal maybe? Was there any prior use of the stealth tank? ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-battles-in-world-history-can-be-remembered-as-much-more-for-use-of-a-new-or-unique-weapon/654700/42 "2013-04-03T15:53:46Z")
Battle of Britain-Radar WW2 Battle of the Atlantic-Cryptography/codebreaking (US government considers cryptography a munition for export purposes) Midway-Kamikaze aircraft. Gulf War I- Laser guided bombs. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-battles-in-world-history-can-be-remembered-as-much-more-for-use-of-a-new-or-unique-weapon/654700/43 "2013-04-03T16:03:59Z")
> [@the\_diego](#): > > Crecy - possible first use of cannons in the west? If I remember correctly, cannons were used in Europe for the first time by the Mongols, in central Europe (Hungary?). Sorry, that’s just out of my head, I can’t remember more détails or give a cite. ETA : According to wikipedia : > [@](#): > > First used in China, cannon were among the earliest forms of gunpowder artillery, and over time replaced siege engines—among other forms of aging weaponry—on the battlefield. In the Middle East, the first use of the hand cannon is argued to be during the 1260 Battle of Ain Jalut between the Mamluks and Mongols. The first cannon in Europe were probably used in Iberia in the 11 and 12th centuries, and English cannon were first deployed in the Hundred Years’ War, at the Battle of Crécy, in 1346. On the African continent, the cannon was first used by the Somali Imam Ahmad ibn Ibrihim al-Ghazi of the Adal Sultanate in his conquest of Ethiopia in 1529.[ In this cite, I’m a bit surprised that cannons would have been used in Europe significantly earlier than in the middle east (and then not heard about again for the next 200-300 years). I strongly doubt this part could be true. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-battles-in-world-history-can-be-remembered-as-much-more-for-use-of-a-new-or-unique-weapon/654700/44 "2013-04-03T16:10:08Z")
_50 Weapons that changed warfare_ by William Weir has some interesting candidates, e.g. the 378 Battle of Adrianople, with the Goths and their allies defeating Romans because of their horse-riding stirrups. But most of Weir’s examples are first famous use, rather than first use. I’ve Weir’s book in print and might post some of his examples. But I see via Google the book may be available for on-line download. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-battles-in-world-history-can-be-remembered-as-much-more-for-use-of-a-new-or-unique-weapon/654700/45 "2013-04-03T16:12:15Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > I had to look up the actual name of the battle (The Battle of Hampton Roads) because I only knew it as the first battle between ironclad ships. > > [Battle of Hampton Roads - Wikipedia](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Hampton_Roads) I thought I was going to be the first to mention this, because a search of this page didn’t turn up any matches for “Monitor” or “Merrimac.” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-battles-in-world-history-can-be-remembered-as-much-more-for-use-of-a-new-or-unique-weapon/654700/46 "2013-04-03T16:17:23Z")
Arab-Israeli War of 1973 - first battle between missile boats (the Israelis won). Edit: potentially as significant in its way as Hampton Roads in ushering in a ‘sea change’ in naval warfare … were it not that main fleet actions in the years since (fortunately!) have been rare if not non-existant. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-battles-in-world-history-can-be-remembered-as-much-more-for-use-of-a-new-or-unique-weapon/654700/47 "2013-04-03T16:33:44Z")
The V-1 buzz bomb was the first cruise missile to be used in combat. No particular battle, but there’s certainly a first-use date: June 13, 1944, against London. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-battles-in-world-history-can-be-remembered-as-much-more-for-use-of-a-new-or-unique-weapon/654700/48 "2013-04-03T16:34:48Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Arab-Israeli War of 1973 - first battle between missile boats (the Israelis won). > > Edit: potentially as significant in its way as Hampton Roads in ushering in a ‘sea change’ in naval warfare … were it not that main fleet actions in the years since (fortunately!) have been rare if not non-existant. Okay, at the risk of sounding like some anti Israeli accomplishments troll, I will note that missile boats were used by Egypt in 1967 (sinking an Israeli destroyer) and by both India and Pakistan in 1971. Furthermore, _Moinitor_ and the CSS _Virginia_ were not the first Iron Clads, the KoreN Turtle ships had them beat by centuries. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-battles-in-world-history-can-be-remembered-as-much-more-for-use-of-a-new-or-unique-weapon/654700/49 "2013-04-03T16:39:32Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Okay, at the risk of sounding like some anti Israeli accomplishments troll, I will note that missile boats were used by Egypt in 1967 (sinking an Israeli destroyer) and by both India and Pakistan in 1971. Naw, I’m thinking of a clash between missile boats - an actual duel of the “Hampton roads ironclads” type. The sinking by Egypt of an Israeli distroyer doesn’t count for that, though it is in itself a very significant “first” (as is the sinking in WW2 of a ship by a guided missile). The Egyptian example was the use of a missile boat to sink another type of warship. I don’t know about the use of missle boats by Indian and Pakistan in 1971. If they were used _against each other_, that would certainly upstage the Arab-Israeli War example. Edit: similarly, the existence of “Turtle boats” doesn’t upstage Hampton Roads, as (so far as I’m aware) again there was no “duel between rival Turtle boats”. ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-battles-in-world-history-can-be-remembered-as-much-more-for-use-of-a-new-or-unique-weapon/654700/50 "2013-04-03T17:01:42Z")
When it first appeared in battle in 1941 the previously unknown Soviet T-34 tank outclassed all other armored fighting vehicles, and made them obsolete. Unfortunately the USSR was about a year a way from being able to produce masses of them. On the other hand, it was fortunate that Hitler went against the advice of his generals who wanted to copy the T-34 nut for nut and bolt for bolt- he insisted on all-German designs leading to the much-delayed Tiger and Panther tanks. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-battles-in-world-history-can-be-remembered-as-much-more-for-use-of-a-new-or-unique-weapon/654700/51 "2013-04-03T17:05:46Z")
[Battle of Sriringapatna](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mysorean_rockets): first use of self-propelled metal projectile weapons. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-battles-in-world-history-can-be-remembered-as-much-more-for-use-of-a-new-or-unique-weapon/654700/52 "2013-04-03T17:16:43Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > [Battle of Sriringapatna](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mysorean_rockets): first use of self-propelled metal projectile weapons. Mongols used rockets. As did the Ottomons. Tamerlane and. Babur both used rocket artillery as did the Mughals. In fact, rocket artillery was peferred to tube artillery in the sub continent. One of the reasons why the Persians, Afghans and eventually the British managed to dominate. **Boyo Jim** Helicopters did sink one Argentine submarine in the Falklands. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-battles-in-world-history-can-be-remembered-as-much-more-for-use-of-a-new-or-unique-weapon/654700/53 "2013-04-03T17:40:14Z")
Not sure whether it was used in a decisive battle per se, or more to prepare for them, but the name “NaPalm” will always live in infamy in connection to its first (and hopefully last) use in the Vietnam “Police Action.” ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-battles-in-world-history-can-be-remembered-as-much-more-for-use-of-a-new-or-unique-weapon/654700/54 "2013-04-03T17:46:10Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > Not sure whether it was used in a decisive battle per se, or more to prepare for them, but the name “NaPalm” will always live in infamy in connection to its first (and hopefully last) use in the Vietnam “Police Action.” Oops! I’m horribly wrong here. From Wikipedia: > [@](#): > > Napalm was first employed in [incendiary bombs](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incendiary_bomb) and went on to be used as fuel for [flamethrowers](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flamethrower).[[9]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napalm#cite_note-Harvard-9) > Napalm bombs burned out 40% of the area of Japanese target cities in the World War.[_[citation needed](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)_]. > The first recorded strategic use of napalm incendiary bombs occurred in an attack by the [USAAF](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USAAF) on Berlin on 6 March 1944, using American AN-M76 incendiary bombs (with PT-1 (Pyrogel) filler).[[10]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napalm#cite_note-10)[[11]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napalm#cite_note-11) The second known attack, this time a tactical operation by [De Havilland D.H.98 Mosquito FB Mk.VIs](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Mosquito) of [No. 140 Wing RAF](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._140_Wing_RAF), [Second Tactical Air Force](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Tactical_Air_Force) on 14 July 1944, also employed the AM-M76 incendiary in a reprisal attack on the [17th SS Panzergrenadier Division](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/17th_SS_Panzergrenadier_Division) „Götz von Berlichingen“ in [Bonneuil-Matours](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonneuil-Matours); soldiers of this [Waffen SS](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waffen_SS) unit had captured and then murdered a British [SAS](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Air_Service) [prisoner-of-war](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner-of-war), Lt. Tomos Stephens, taking part in [Operation Bulbasket](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Bulbasket), and seven local [Resistance](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_resistance) fighters; although it was not known at the time of the air strike, 31 other POWs from the same SAS unit, and an American airman who had joined up with the SAS unit, had also been executed.[[12]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napalm#cite_note-12) > Further use of napalm by American forces occurred in the Pacific Theater of Operations, where in 1944 and 1945, napalm was used as a tactical weapon against Japanese bunkers, pillboxes, tunnels, and other fortifications, especially on [Saipan](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saipan), [Iwo Jima](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iwo_Jima), the [Philippines](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippines), and [Okinawa](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okinawa), where deeply dug-in Japanese troops refused to surrender. Napalm bombs were dropped by [aviators](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviator) of the [U.S. Navy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Navy), the [United States Army Air Forces](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army_Air_Forces), and the [U.S. Marine Corps](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Marine_Corps) in support of their ground troops.[[13]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napalm#cite_note-13) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-battles-in-world-history-can-be-remembered-as-much-more-for-use-of-a-new-or-unique-weapon/654700/55 "2013-04-03T18:25:48Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Mongols used rockets. As did the Ottomons. Tamerlane and. Babur both used rocket artillery as did the Mughals. Yes, but they were wood or paper with metal tips. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-battles-in-world-history-can-be-remembered-as-much-more-for-use-of-a-new-or-unique-weapon/654700/56 "2013-04-03T19:27:50Z")
> [@Victor\_Charlie](#): > > WW II - Ballistic missiles (V-2 rockets) Not sure what the distinction is between those and Congreve rockets, or for that matter Chinese anti-Mongol rockets, which were also ballistic. Certainly V-2 was revolutionary – first exo-atmospheric and promised to lead to intercontinental – but not the first unguided rocket used in war. > [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > Israel’s use of them against the Syrians, in the 1982 Lebanon war (not '73). Thirty Syrian AA radar stations lit up the UAVs, and were thereby identified and taken out. Israel downed 80 Syrian jets and lost none. I’d say that was historically significant use of a novel asset. Operation Mole Cricket 19. I’ve definitely read before that Israel lost 2 aircraft somewhere in the process of taking out the SAM sites and the subsequent air-to-air furball, although Wikipedia now says “none.” But the same Wikipedia article does say “the Israelis lost 1 Skyhawk and 2 helicopters” to missile batteries, which sounds like more than “none” to me. I think “none” needs to be further researched. > [@colonial](#): > > Hannibal is not known to have employed elephants in battle in the 2nd Punic War in Spain > or Italy. He is supposed to have had them in his train during the march from Spain to Itlay; > it may be none survived the march over the Alps. [line breaks in the original] Agree that “_in battle_” is the key phrase for their use in the Italian campaign. I’ve seen it asserted that the elephants were a _recruiting_ tool for Hannibal in Italy. He couldn’t use them against Roman walled towns, and they were generally unsuited to ambushes like Lake Trasimene, and there weren’t that many of them left after the Alps. But they supposedly impressed the hell out of the Gauls and the Italian minor allies, and brought eager recruits into Hannibal’s ranks. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-battles-in-world-history-can-be-remembered-as-much-more-for-use-of-a-new-or-unique-weapon/654700/57 "2013-04-03T19:50:00Z")
Legendarily, [Archimedes’ solar heat ray](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archimedes#Heat_ray) torched enemy ships during the Siege or Syracuse. (Wiki says that Mythbusters has twice busted this though.) [Greek fire](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_fire), apparently unrelated to Archimedes and his mirrors, has already been mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-battles-in-world-history-can-be-remembered-as-much-more-for-use-of-a-new-or-unique-weapon/654700/58 "2013-04-03T20:01:19Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > Not sure whether it was used in a decisive battle per se, or more to prepare for them, but the name “NaPalm” will always live in infamy in connection to its first (and hopefully last) use in the Vietnam “Police Action.” Napalm was invented during WW2 and used extensively beginning 1944, both in strategic bombing and as a tactical anti-bunker weapon. It has been used on a smaller scale in numerous other wars. The term “Police Action” was I think a Truman coinage, applied in a speech to the beginning of Korean War, and thereafter only ironically. I was in college 1967-71 and I never once heard the term used to describe the Viet Nam War. New and improved incendiary weapons were used by the US in both Gulf wars. ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-battles-in-world-history-can-be-remembered-as-much-more-for-use-of-a-new-or-unique-weapon/654700/59 "2013-04-03T20:08:49Z")
The Prussian “Needle gun”, first breech-loading rifle used on a large scale in war, contributed to the Prussian victory over Austria at the 1866 battle of Koeniggratz. Although the it had a shorter range than the Austrian muzzle-loader, it had a higher rate of fire, and the user did not have to stand while reloading. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-battles-in-world-history-can-be-remembered-as-much-more-for-use-of-a-new-or-unique-weapon/654700/60 "2013-04-03T20:10:19Z")
> [@colonial](#): > > The term “Police Action” was I think a Truman coinage, applied in a speech > to the beginning of Korean War, and thereafter only ironically. I was in college > 1967-71 and I never once heard the term used to describe the Viet Nam War. I heard a mention of it occasionally, but no one was buying it. I think Korea made that term untenable. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-battles-in-world-history-can-be-remembered-as-much-more-for-use-of-a-new-or-unique-weapon/654700.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-battles-in-world-history-can-be-remembered-as-much-more-for-use-of-a-new-or-unique-weapon/654700.md?page=4)