# Which battles in world history can be remembered as much/more for use of a new or unique weapon? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 3, 2013, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-battles-in-world-history-can-be-remembered-as-much-more-for-use-of-a-new-or-unique-weapon/654700 "2013-04-03T03:48:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![chacoguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-battles-in-world-history-can-be-remembered-as-much-more-for-use-of-a-new-or-unique-weapon/654700/61 "2013-04-03T20:19:20Z")
[The Bridge over the River Kwai was taken out by one of the first smart bombs.](http://cambridgeforecast.wordpress.com/2006/12/11/bridge-on-the-river-kwai-earliest-smart-bombs/) ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-battles-in-world-history-can-be-remembered-as-much-more-for-use-of-a-new-or-unique-weapon/654700/62 "2013-04-03T20:25:49Z")
> [@colonial](#): > > The Prussian “Needle gun”, first breech-loading rifle used on a large scale in war, > contributed to the Prussian victory over Austria at the 1866 battle of Koeniggratz. > Although the it had a shorter range than the Austrian muzzle-loader, it had a higher > rate of fire, and the user did not have to stand while reloading. I was about to mention this, it’s a very good example. The effect of the Prussian rifles upon the Austrian troops was devastating. Paul von Hindenburg, who was a young lieutenant in the battle of Königgrätz and who later rose to the rank of field marshal in WWI described it in his memoirs decades later. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-battles-in-world-history-can-be-remembered-as-much-more-for-use-of-a-new-or-unique-weapon/654700/63 "2013-04-03T20:29:11Z")
With only a few exceptions the posts in this thread have totally ignored the title: “Which battles in world history can be remembered \*\*\*as much/more \*\*\*for use of a new or unique weapon?” ---
**Author:** ![Spiny\_Norman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Spiny\_Norman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiny_Norman)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-battles-in-world-history-can-be-remembered-as-much-more-for-use-of-a-new-or-unique-weapon/654700/64 "2013-04-03T20:31:16Z")
> [@colonial](#): > > The Prussian “Needle gun”, first breech-loading rifle used on a large scale in war, > contributed to the Prussian victory over Austria at the 1866 battle of Koeniggratz. > Although the it had a shorter range than the Austrian muzzle-loader, it had a higher > rate of fire, and the user did not have to stand while reloading. The needle-gun was used previously at the 1864 battle of Dybbøl (2nd Schleswig War) and with much the same effect. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-battles-in-world-history-can-be-remembered-as-much-more-for-use-of-a-new-or-unique-weapon/654700/65 "2013-04-03T20:49:43Z")
> [@colonial](#): > > Napalm was invented during WW2 and used extensively beginning 1944, . . . See Post 54 > [@colonial](#): > > The term “Police Action” was I think a Truman coinage, applied in a speech to the beginning of Korean War, and thereafter only ironically. I was in college 1967-71 and I never once heard the term used to describe the Viet Nam War. . . My dad graduated West Point in '66 and served three tours in Viet Nam. I was indeed being ironical. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-battles-in-world-history-can-be-remembered-as-much-more-for-use-of-a-new-or-unique-weapon/654700/66 "2013-04-03T21:02:53Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > With only a few exceptions the posts in this thread have totally ignored the title: > > “Which battles in world history can be remembered \*\*\*as much/more \*\*\*for use of a new or unique weapon?” Since that rule was violated by the OP, I don’t think it needs to be taken very seriously. In any case, if followed it would make for a pretty short thread.😉 ---
**Author:** ![Spiny\_Norman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Spiny\_Norman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiny_Norman)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-battles-in-world-history-can-be-remembered-as-much-more-for-use-of-a-new-or-unique-weapon/654700/67 "2013-04-04T00:29:51Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > With only a few exceptions the posts in this thread have totally ignored the title: > > “Which battles in world history can be remembered \*\*\*as much/more \*\*\*for use of a new or unique weapon?” OK, then. Cambrai? _Remembered_ as the first successful use of tanks en masse, although that’s currently being disputed. ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-battles-in-world-history-can-be-remembered-as-much-more-for-use-of-a-new-or-unique-weapon/654700/68 "2013-04-04T01:15:01Z")
Not so much a new weapon but a new tactic, but Dutch Admiral Maartin Tromp is generally credited with first using line of battle tactics in the Action of 18 September 1639. You could, at a stretch, call it the first appearance of the ship of the line. It’s a claim based on function rather than design; Tromp’s ships would hardly have been 74s. ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-battles-in-world-history-can-be-remembered-as-much-more-for-use-of-a-new-or-unique-weapon/654700/69 "2013-04-04T01:21:50Z")
Remember the 1804 battle for Fort Amsterdam between the British and Dutch? Of course you do, and all because it was the first recorded use of the Shrapnel shell. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-battles-in-world-history-can-be-remembered-as-much-more-for-use-of-a-new-or-unique-weapon/654700/70 "2013-04-04T01:25:36Z")
> [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > Not so much a new weapon but a new tactic, but Dutch Admiral Maartin Tromp is generally credited with first using line of battle tactics in the Action of 18 September 1639. You could, at a stretch, call it the first appearance of the ship of the line. It’s a claim based on function rather than design; Tromp’s ships would hardly have been 74s. line of battle tactics 😕 ship of the line 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-battles-in-world-history-can-be-remembered-as-much-more-for-use-of-a-new-or-unique-weapon/654700/71 "2013-04-04T01:34:08Z")
I guess this won’t fit the OP, but during the Hussite Wars, the Czech Jan Ziska went 50-0 in battles against the German knights and infantry of the day by using heavily armed wagons as mobile fortifications. Filled with crossbowmen, pikemen and “handgunners” (the early [handguns](http://www.uh.edu/engines/handgun.jpg) were nothing like modern pistols), the enemy was usually torn to shreds before they got close. If they did, infantry using the wagons for cover would finish them off. Zizka’s wagons from the early 1400s are often called the ancestor of modern tanks, and Ziska is one of the few historical generals to go undefeated in battle throughout their career. Sorry if that’s too far off the mark, but it’s pretty cool and worth mentioning. ---
**Author:** ![morgensd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@morgensd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/morgensd)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-battles-in-world-history-can-be-remembered-as-much-more-for-use-of-a-new-or-unique-weapon/654700/72 "2013-04-04T01:39:48Z")
Battle of the East China Sea - 2050 - first use of ship-mounted rail gun Oh wait, that hasn’t happened yet has it. Just forget I said that. Must slip off into the TARDIS now. Doctor Who ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-battles-in-world-history-can-be-remembered-as-much-more-for-use-of-a-new-or-unique-weapon/654700/73 "2013-04-04T01:55:09Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > line of battle tactics 😕 > **[Line of battle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_of_battle)** > > The line of battle or the battle line is a tactic in naval warfare in which a fleet of ships (known as ships of the line) forms a line end to end. The first example of its use as a tactic is disputed—it has been variously claimed for dates ranging from 1502 to 1652. Line-of-battle tactics were in widespread use by 1675. > Compared with prior naval tactics, in which two opposing ships closed on one another for individual combat, the line of battle has the advantage that each ship in the line ca... > [@](#): > > ship of the line 😕 > **[Ship of the line](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_the_line)** > > A ship of the line was a type of naval warship constructed during the Age of Sail from the 17th century to the mid-19th century. The ship of the line was designed for the naval tactic known as the line of battle, which involved the two columns of opposing warships manoeuvering to volley fire with the cannons along their broadsides. In conflicts where opposing ships were both able to fire from their broadsides, the faction with more cannons firing – and therefore more firepower – typically had an ... I can see you being unfamiliar with the first, since naval battle tactics of the 17th-19th centuries aren’t a hot topic in mdern history classes, but I thought “ship of the line” was a common-enough term, especially here, where Hornblower and Aubrey–Maturin books are required reading. _thinking_ No, because of that you should have gotten both terms. Shame on you! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-battles-in-world-history-can-be-remembered-as-much-more-for-use-of-a-new-or-unique-weapon/654700/74 "2013-04-04T03:24:09Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > 1. The First successful intercept of an aircraft by a SAM [1959](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-75_Dvina), actually. No doubt you’re thinking of [this guy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Anderson) for 1962, but [this other guy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Gary_Powers) (1960) was perhaps better known. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-battles-in-world-history-can-be-remembered-as-much-more-for-use-of-a-new-or-unique-weapon/654700/75 "2013-04-04T03:50:20Z")
The US Civil War introduced large-scale use of railroads for troop transport. > [@http://www.brettschulte.net/CWBlog/2010/02/16/the-impact-of-railroads-on-warfare-during-the-american-civil-war/](#): > > The First and Second Battles of Bull Run (First and Second Battles of Manassas to the Confederates) were fought over possession of the rail communications node and railhead of Manassas Junction. In addition to the numerous roads that ran through Manassas Junction, there were several railroads and railheads in close proximity (many of which are still there today – Manassas continues to serve the DC area as a transportation hub). Manassas would serve as an important logistics point for any Confederate invasion of the Union capital, which is located approximately 35 miles to the northeast of Manassas. Also, through the bridges and fords in the vicinity of Manassas, the Confederate Army of Northern Virginia could avoid major opposed river crossings along the Bull Run and Occoquan Rivers and attack north following rail lines directly into Cent[re]ville, Fairfax Station, and then into Washington DC. I believe there were several other railroad related incidents during the war in NoVA where a railroad, train, or train station was involved. Afaik there was at least one in Vienna and one in Burke. I think the incident in Vienna involved not only troop transport by rail but involved a literal fight over the train itself. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-battles-in-world-history-can-be-remembered-as-much-more-for-use-of-a-new-or-unique-weapon/654700/76 "2013-04-04T05:25:13Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > The Battle of Khalkhin Gol: first combined arms attack of armor and air power. I believe in Soviet history. At least according to Wiki: [Battles of Khalkhin Gol - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Khalkhin_Gol) ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-battles-in-world-history-can-be-remembered-as-much-more-for-use-of-a-new-or-unique-weapon/654700/77 "2013-04-04T05:37:44Z")
> [@Kevbo](#): > > Midway-Kamikaze aircraft. I don’t think this is correct. Midway was 1942 when the Japanese were unstoppable, so no need for desperate suicidal attacks. According to [Wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamikaze#First_kamikaze_unit) says the first organized kamikaze’s was Leyte Gulf in 1944 Of course, you wanted to pick nits, 1274 was when the Kamikaze winds wiped out maybe 75% of the Mongolian invasion force. If those winds were in fact brought up by the Emperor or warlock, then maybe it would count to the OP. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-battles-in-world-history-can-be-remembered-as-much-more-for-use-of-a-new-or-unique-weapon/654700/78 "2013-04-04T05:55:50Z")
> [@colonial](#): > > The term “Police Action” was I think a Truman coinage, applied in a speech to the beginning of Korean War, and thereafter only ironically. I was in college 1967-71 and I never once heard the term used to describe the Viet Nam War. It actually was first used by a reporter. Truman was meeting with the press and explaining that despite appearances what was going on in Korea wasn’t technically a war. After he explained the legal nuances of how the United States was just providing troops so the UN could enforce international law, one of the reporters asked “So you’re saying this is more like a police action?” and the Truman administration jumped on the term. ---
**Author:** ![David\_H\_Singanas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@David\_H\_Singanas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_H_Singanas)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-battles-in-world-history-can-be-remembered-as-much-more-for-use-of-a-new-or-unique-weapon/654700/79 "2013-04-04T06:08:28Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > All the Israel ones are wrong. UAVs, ABM and Active tank protection measures were in use long before the OP believes. UAVs were extensively used in Vietnam and as far back as WW2. The US and Soviets both deployed ABMs before the 1972 treaty took effect. The Soviet Naval Infantry had active protection measures on their tanks from the 1970’s and they saw extensive use in Afghanistan. > Come to think of it, Hannibal elephants is wrong as well. It was used in the Sub Continent for thousands of years before Hannibal and by Hellenistic rulers in the East. I believe the OP specified use in battle. This infers recorded battle and a sortie or deployment is not a battle. Therefore Hannibal would have the first battle with the elephant weapon. What were the first recorded battles for the use of the crossbow, Greek fire, and the cannon ? ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-battles-in-world-history-can-be-remembered-as-much-more-for-use-of-a-new-or-unique-weapon/654700/80 "2013-04-04T08:19:08Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > I don’t think this is correct. Midway was 1942 when the Japanese were unstoppable, so no need for desperate suicidal attacks. > > According to [Wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamikaze#First_kamikaze_unit) says the first organized kamikaze’s was Leyte Gulf in 1944 There were a number of cases on both sides of pilots choosing to crash their planes into the enemy after their plane was heavily damaged, but it wasn’t until Leyte Gulf that they became planned tactics. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-battles-in-world-history-can-be-remembered-as-much-more-for-use-of-a-new-or-unique-weapon/654700.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-battles-in-world-history-can-be-remembered-as-much-more-for-use-of-a-new-or-unique-weapon/654700.md?page=5)