# Which British Monarch Came From Furthest Down The List? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 14, 2011, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-british-monarch-came-from-furthest-down-the-list/589013 "2011-07-14T14:17:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-british-monarch-came-from-furthest-down-the-list/589013/21 "2011-07-14T15:51:09Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > I don’t recall what claim William III had - it was mainly through his wife, right? Largely, but William was also the grandson of Charles I (and therefore nephew of James II) and was fourth in line of succession in his own right (after Mary, Anne, and the new baby). ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-british-monarch-came-from-furthest-down-the-list/589013/22 "2011-07-14T15:54:23Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Elizabeth I was third in line to the throne at the time of her father’s death. Her brother Edward and her older sister Mary were both monarchs before her but both died childless. She was actually not even on the list for most of her pre- reign having been declared a bastard by Henry VIII and Mary I. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-british-monarch-came-from-furthest-down-the-list/589013/23 "2011-07-14T15:56:35Z")
Is there a place where you can see the historic lines of succession? For example, what was the line of succession when Victoria ascended to the throne, or when George III died? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-british-monarch-came-from-furthest-down-the-list/589013/24 "2011-07-14T16:00:52Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > It’s not really that surprising for people to move up the list. That’s the way it works. If William has a son, the child will be fourth in line. But he’ll also most likely become king eventually as his great grandmother, grandfather, and father die off before him. No, if William has a son, that child will be third in line–Charles, then William, then William Jr. Harry would be bumped out of #3 to #4, and will only become monarch if all of William’s children (and their children) die before him. Or Parliament passes a law that says Harry is the monarch. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-british-monarch-came-from-furthest-down-the-list/589013/25 "2011-07-14T16:01:13Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > It’s not really that surprising for people to move up the list. That’s the way it works. If William has a son, the child will be fourth in line. He would be third in line. Henry would be pushed to fourth. ---
**Author:** ![Lacunae\_Matata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lacunae\_Matata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lacunae_Matata)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-british-monarch-came-from-furthest-down-the-list/589013/26 "2011-07-14T16:03:50Z")
I’d say that Queen Victoria has a decent chance at being the monarch who was (at some point in her life) lowest in the order of succession who eventually became the reigning monarch. Her grandparents - George III and Charlotte - had about 15 children, most of whom lived well into adulthood (ripe old ages for many, in fact,) but most of George III’s grandchildren were illegitimate or barred from the succession by virtue of their other parent’s Catholicism. Otherwise, if there’s a clear-cut winner in this derby, the other frontrunners seem to me Henry VII or maybe William III. Or perhaps Lady Jane Grey, whom Edward VI had named his successor, but who was never crowned. Hard to say… ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-british-monarch-came-from-furthest-down-the-list/589013/27 "2011-07-14T16:08:12Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > which lead me, if no one else, to believe that suddenly you were only interested in _kings_ to the exclusion of the _queen_ you’d just been told about. That’s how I read it too, as discounting the reply about Victoria. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-british-monarch-came-from-furthest-down-the-list/589013/28 "2011-07-14T16:08:22Z")
Barring taking the crown by force, I think the record goes to George I. ---
**Author:** ![Lacunae\_Matata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lacunae\_Matata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lacunae_Matata)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-british-monarch-came-from-furthest-down-the-list/589013/29 "2011-07-14T16:10:59Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > Barring taking the crown by force, I think the record goes to George I. Ah yes! Considering that the Act of Settlement was passed during George I’s lifetime, he would have jumped more than 50 spots to number one. I think we have a winner… ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-british-monarch-came-from-furthest-down-the-list/589013/30 "2011-07-14T16:15:31Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Largely, but William was also the grandson of Charles I (and therefore nephew of James II) and was fourth in line of succession in his own right (after Mary, Anne, and the new baby). Ah, well let’s strike him from the list then. Henry VII seems a good bet if we’re counting those that seized the throne but at least had a nominal claim. William the Conqueror had a pretty dodgy claim as well, but that’s going waaaay back. George I is certainly a good bet for non-military takeovers. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-british-monarch-came-from-furthest-down-the-list/589013/31 "2011-07-14T16:18:33Z")
> [@Lacunae\_Matata](#): > > Ah yes! Considering that the Act of Settlement was passed during George I’s lifetime, he would have jumped more than 50 spots to number one. I think we have a winner… Depends on the criteria. I think he’s the winner, if the evident impossibility of having Catholics on the throne in his day doesn’t disqualify his 50-spot score from the game. Otherwise, I’d go with Henry VII. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-british-monarch-came-from-furthest-down-the-list/589013/32 "2011-07-14T16:19:50Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > This is why it’s always good practice to quote what you’re responding to. 😉 Charley was correct. I responded to a post and failed to quote it. My mistake. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-british-monarch-came-from-furthest-down-the-list/589013/33 "2011-07-14T16:20:22Z")
What about William I (The Conqueror)? Arguably, he was never on the list at all (depending on what Edward the Confessor had really promised). You know, for someone nicknamed “the Confessor”, you would think we would have a better idea of what he actually got up to! 🙂 ETA: Darn, pipped at the post again! ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-british-monarch-came-from-furthest-down-the-list/589013/34 "2011-07-14T16:24:49Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > What about William I (The Conqueror)? Arguably, he was never on the list at all (depending on what Edward the Confessor had really promised). > > You know, for someone nicknamed “the Confessor”, you would think we would have a better idea of what he actually got up to! 🙂 > > ETA: Darn, pipped at the post again! If that’s up for grabs, I’ll nominate king Canute. 😉 > **[Cnut](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cnut_the_Great)** > > This is an accepted version of this page > > Cnut (/kəˈnjuːt/ kə-NYOOT; Old Norse: Knútr;\[a\] c. 990 – 12 November 1035), also known as Canute and with the epithet the Great, was King of England from 1016, King of Denmark from 1018, and King of Norway from 1028 until his death in 1035. The three kingdoms united under Cnut's rule are referred to together as the North Sea Empire by historians. > As a Danish prince, Cnut won the throne of England in 1016 in the wake of centuries of Viking activity in n... He had exactly zero legitimate claim to the throne … ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-british-monarch-came-from-furthest-down-the-list/589013/35 "2011-07-14T16:28:58Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > What about William I (The Conqueror)? Arguably, he was never on the list at all (depending on what Edward the Confessor had really promised). He had a claim in his own right, just not a very good one. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-british-monarch-came-from-furthest-down-the-list/589013/36 "2011-07-14T16:40:38Z")
Well, lessee, including in line those who might have plausibly survived… **William the Bastard** - Arguably no legitimate claim, but Edward the Confessor did give him half-assed promises ( as he did others ). Best to leave it as “indeterminate” as it is hard to say who should come #2 after Edgar Atheling ( who should have been the unarguable #1, as the last of the direct line of the House of Cerdic ). **William II** - #3. His elder brother Robert was skipped over and his other elder brother Richard died as a teen from a hunting accident. **Henry I** - #4. After the above Robert, Richard and William. **Stephen** - #7. Henry I had two legitimate children, William and Mathilda. William drowned as a teen and I’m giving Mathilda the #3 slot as Henry declared her the lawful heir. Henry’s older brother Robert ( passed over as above ) had a son, William Clito, who would have had been the likely #2. Stephen, Henry’s nephew, then had three older brothers - William of Sully ( passed over, considered unfit ), Theobald of Blois ( got the lion’s share of the family lands and did not have the ties in England that Stephen did ) and Odo, died as a teen. **Henry II** - #1 or #3. Depends how you look at it. He was either heir #1 as son of Mathilda or behind Stephen’s two surviving sons ( I won’t count Baldwin, who probably died by the time Henry was born ). **Richard I** - #2. After his father’s eldest, Henry the Young King. William, the eldest, died before he was born. **John** - #4 or #5. After his elder brothers Henry, Richard and Geoffrey. Arguably after Geoffrey’s son, Arthur. Granted by the time Arthur was born a couple of his brothers were dead, so maybe #4 was the farthest he was ever back at any given moment in time. **Henry III** - #1. **Edward I** - #1. **Edward II** - #1. Edward II had a whole slew of elder siblings, but all the boys ( John, Henry, Alphonso ) died before he was born. **Edward III** - #1. **Richard II** - #2 or #3. Probably #2 as his father ( who never reached the throne ) shouldn’t be counted, as he would have eventually followed him. At birth his father Edward, the Black Prince was #1 and his elder brother Edward of Angouleme was #2. **Henry IV** - Let’s say #6. At the time of his birth his elder brothers had either predeceased him or died very shortly thereafter. But the three above were #1-3. His uncle Lionel of Clarence was #4 and his father John of Gaunt would have been #5. **Henry V** - #1. **Henry VI** - #1. **Edward IV** - Ugh. Complicated. In fact I’ll stop here and let someone else work out the rest. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-british-monarch-came-from-furthest-down-the-list/589013/37 "2011-07-14T16:57:20Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > **Edward IV** - Ugh. Complicated. In fact I’ll stop here and let someone else work out the rest. I propose we just skip the War of the Roses monarchs since legal succession was largely ignored in favor of ascension by arms. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-british-monarch-came-from-furthest-down-the-list/589013/38 "2011-07-14T17:06:05Z")
I’ll take us through the Tudors: Henry VIII - #2 after his brother Arthur Edward V - #1 Mary I - Using the current rules (not those of the time which were really sketchy about even the possibility of a female monarch) she was #1 at birth and dropped down to #2 after the birth of her brother Edward V, and back up to #1 when Edward took the throne. Elizabeth I was #2 at birth before being officially bastardized and the birth of Edward. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-british-monarch-came-from-furthest-down-the-list/589013/39 "2011-07-14T17:07:32Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Of course I know the difference. The monarch is the monarch and if male, king and if female, queen. The king’s spouse is normally made the queen consort but she isn’t the monarch. The queen’s spouse has to my knowledge never been called king consort (Of course William and Mary are the super exception to the one monarch at a time rule). Not sure what prompted the question as I thought I was clear that I was interested in the monarch coming back from furthest down the line. Actually there are two exceptions, the husbands of both Marys. William III was Mary II’s husband, but third in line in his own right. But Mary I’s husband was Philip II of Spain – though only consort in England, he was titled King because he was in fact King of Spain. It’s also worth noting “King Henry the 2.5th” – Prince Henry the eldest son of Henry II was crowned King in his father’s lifetime, at the (elder) Henry’s behest. However, he died before his father, and Richard I was the successor to Henry II. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-british-monarch-came-from-furthest-down-the-list/589013/40 "2011-07-14T17:20:22Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > But Mary I’s husband was Philip II of Spain – though only consort in England, he was titled King because he was in fact King of Spain. He wasn’t, at least to begin with. His father was still King of Spain, and he wouldn’t gain the throne of Spain until his father’s death in 1556. He was King of Jerusalem and King of Naples, though. He was titled King because Parliament titled him King. “Prince-Consort” was a title unknown in England until Parliament granted it to Prince Albert, over Victoria’s wishes that he be named King. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-british-monarch-came-from-furthest-down-the-list/589013.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-british-monarch-came-from-furthest-down-the-list/589013.md?page=3)