# Which came first, a duck or to duck? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 11, 2013, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-came-first-a-duck-or-to-duck/676046 "2013-12-11T03:35:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-came-first-a-duck-or-to-duck/676046/1 "2013-12-11T03:35:49Z")
The word duck has several meanings in English, the two most cfommon being: 1. A duck, noun, a waterfowl 2. To duck, verb, the act of diving underwater. Now, the waterfowl is notable because it sometimes dives under the water. In other words, ducks duck. So, is the bird named for its habit of ducking? Is the verb named because that’s what ducks do? Or is it a linguistic co-incidence, with no connection between them? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-came-first-a-duck-or-to-duck/676046/2 "2013-12-11T03:45:51Z")
First known use for the bird is before the 12th Century, while the first use in the verbal sense is from the 14th Century. The latter sense is derived from the former. So ducks were ducks before they started ducking. [Duck](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/duck) ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-came-first-a-duck-or-to-duck/676046/3 "2013-12-11T04:24:31Z")
Thank you, **Collibri**. That certainly answers which came first. Are we certain that one is derived from the other, though? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-came-first-a-duck-or-to-duck/676046/4 "2013-12-11T04:25:20Z")
If I understand [these etymological notes](http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=duck) correctly, data from other Germanic languages suggest that the noun probably derives from the verb, despite lack of early English attestations. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-came-first-a-duck-or-to-duck/676046/5 "2013-12-11T04:58:07Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > is the bird named for its habit of ducking? Need not be coincidence. Could easily be the other way around - ducking called that because it’s similar to what those birds do. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-came-first-a-duck-or-to-duck/676046/6 "2013-12-11T05:00:41Z")
Related: The echo came later. ---
**Author:** ![Flywheel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Flywheel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flywheel)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-came-first-a-duck-or-to-duck/676046/7 "2013-12-11T05:12:05Z")
Why a duck? ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-came-first-a-duck-or-to-duck/676046/8 "2013-12-11T05:13:23Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > First known use for the bird is before the 12th Century, while the first use in the verbal sense is from the 14th Century. The latter sense is derived from the former. So ducks were ducks before they started ducking. > > [Duck](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/duck) > [@septimus](#): > > If I understand [these etymological notes](http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=duck) correctly, data from other Germanic languages suggest that the noun probably derives from the verb, despite lack of early English attestations. I think the noun form was derived from the verb form, even though the first print appearance in English suggest otherwise. The noun use was to call the bird a _ducker_ if I understand. > [@OED](#): > > Forms: α. OE duce, ME duk, ME– duck (ME dukke, 15 ducke). β. ME doke (ME dooke, 15– Sc. duke, … (Show More) > > Etymology: Old English duce (? dúce ), \< u- (or ū- ) grade of \*dúcan to duck v., dive; compare Danish duk-and lit. dive-duck (and = duck), Swedish dyk-fågel lit. dive-fowl, diver; and the synonyms under ducker n.1 > The phonological history presents some difficulties, especially owing to uncertainty whether the Old English vowel was u or ú , and the development of the three Middle English types: dukke , duk , corresponding to modern duck ; dōke , dook , corresponding to modern Scots duik /dʏk/ ; douke , dowke . Compare, for the forms, brook v. and dove n.; and see Luick, Untersuch. zur Engl. Lautgeschichte (1896) §388, 553. > Noun- > > α. > 967 in Kemble Cod. Dipl. No. 538. III. 18 Andlang Osrices pulle þæt hit cymþ on ducan seaþe; of ducan seaþe þæt hit cymþ on Rischale. > > 1377 Langland Piers Plowman B. xvii. 62 A-syde he gan hym drawe Dredfully…as duk [v.r. 5 MSS. doke] doth fram þe faucoun. > > a1475 Liber Cocorum (Sloane) (1862) 5 Henne-ban sede duckys wylle kylle. > > 1483 Cath. Angl. 110/2 A Dukke, anas. Verb– > [@OED](#): > > I. intr. > 1. > a. To plunge or dive, or suddenly go down under water, and emerge again; to dip the head rapidly under water. > > c1340 Cursor M. (Trin.) 23203 He þat doukeþ ones þer doun > > II. trans. > > 1. To plunge (a person or thing) momentarily in, into, or under water or other liquid. > a1300 Cursor Mundi 23203 He that es duked ans dun. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-came-first-a-duck-or-to-duck/676046/9 "2013-12-11T05:20:10Z")
Do you get down from a duck or down from a horse? ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-came-first-a-duck-or-to-duck/676046/10 "2013-12-11T05:26:58Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Do you get down from a duck or down from a horse? Get it right–“How do you get down off an elephant?” ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-came-first-a-duck-or-to-duck/676046/11 "2013-12-11T05:33:42Z")
Data point - in Afrikaans, the act of diving is to _duik_ (sounds like “day-k”) but the bird is an _eend_ (sounds like “Ian-t”) ; this agrees with the etymology online observation that the bird name used to be _ened_ in Old English. So the bird was named after the action. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-came-first-a-duck-or-to-duck/676046/12 "2013-12-11T05:42:57Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > Need not be coincidence. Could easily be the other way around - ducking called that because it’s similar to what those birds do. Erm, yes. That is possible. I said the same in the first post. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-came-first-a-duck-or-to-duck/676046/13 "2013-12-11T05:47:24Z")
The OED has the noun-form descending from an Old English verb _ducan_, meaning “to dive”. It also has the verb-form descending from the same source. _Ducan_ has cognate words in other modern and old Germanic languages. The noun-form is recorded in English literature before the verb form, but that’s probably because, in the days when not much was written down and even less was preserved, people had more occasion to write about ducks (which were both game birds and farm animals) than they did about ducking. Most probably both noun and verb forms of the word have existed in English since English became a distinct language. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-came-first-a-duck-or-to-duck/676046/14 "2013-12-11T05:49:46Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > Get it right–“How do you get down off an elephant?” I slide down the trunk. Why? ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-came-first-a-duck-or-to-duck/676046/15 "2013-12-11T07:50:48Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Data point - in Afrikaans, the act of diving is to _duik_ (sounds like “day-k”) but the bird is an _eend_ (sounds like “Ian-t”) ; this agrees with the etymology online observation that the bird name used to be _ened_ in Old English. So the bird was named after the action. Supporting data point in German: the verb _ducken_ refers to the act of making oneself smaller (to go through a low door, to cringe in abject submission or to escape sight or projectiles), but the bird is called _Ente_ and its diving action is called _tauchen_ (to dive). Acording to the Grimm brothers’ dictionary [Wörterbuchnetz](http://woerterbuchnetz.de/DWB/?sigle=DWB&mode=Vernetzung&lemid=GE04633) most Indo-European languages have words similar to Ente (lat. anas) ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-came-first-a-duck-or-to-duck/676046/16 "2013-12-11T08:07:10Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > Get it right–“How do you get down off an elephant?” > [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I slide down the trunk. Why? You don’t get down from an elephant. You get down from a goose. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-came-first-a-duck-or-to-duck/676046/17 "2013-12-11T22:09:54Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > That is possible. I said the same in the first post. So you did - sorry.