Which cars perform better; manual or automatic?

In My Humble Opinion
41

True enough, 0-60 times can be a bit of a con. However, you can buy manuals with traction control.

In my experience, auto boxes with big engines work well. The extra torque and power give you more flexibility, it’s not so important to be in the optimal gear in any driving situation. Small engine + auto is an absolute nightmare. I once had the misfortune to drive a 1.4 litre (90 BHP) engined car with an auto, I could not believe how slow it was. At the slightest hint of a hill it could not decide which gear it wanted to be in. For real world driving, it was much slower than the car I owned at the time (which only had a 1.2 litre engine).

This is why auto boxes are much less common in Europe. Petrol (gas) prices are much, much higher, fuel economy is more important and engines are smaller. Family cars most often have a 1.8 litre engine these days. When you have smaller engines the deficiencies of auto boxes become more obvious.

42

These cars were all sticks; never replaced the clutch or clutch cable in any of them:

Car 1: 1982 Dodge Ram 50. Bought it with ~55K miles in 1987, was my primary car until I sold it in 1996, at least 100K miles later.

Car 2: 1986 Honda Accord: My wife bought this in 1990 with ~55K miles on it, shortly before we got married. We both drove this car a lot. Had ~252K miles on it when we donated it to charity a couple years back.

Car 3: 2000 Honda Accord. Bought new in 2000. Has 105K miles on it so far.

There’s also a 1987 Ram 50 in there that I bought in 1996 with ~160K miles on it, but I don’t know whether it had had a clutch/clutch cable replacement before then or not, and I only put another ~30K miles on it.

Anyway, that’s well over 400K miles with no clutch or clutch cable replacement. And like I said, I’m not gentle on my cars.

43

Every A/T fluid check I know of consists of either: warm engine, place selector in every gear (P,R,N,O,D,3,2,1), then back to park. or the newer ones just say warm engine in park. I have never heard of checking it in drive, which seems like not only a really bad idea but an invitation for lawsuits. I suggest that you may have misread the owners manual.

The only test that comes remotly simular to what you describe is a test of the stall converter, which is suppose to stop the engine if the AT and engine speed are not linking up. IIRC it consists of putting the emergency brake on as hard as you can, block all 4 wheels, place car against a unmovable object such as a 100 yr oak tree, or have a clear field infront of you (so if you do go fwd you won’t hit anyone). Place left foot on service brake - hard). Then make sure no one is infront of the car (or in the treehouse). Then place the slelector in D and raise the engine speed to IIRC 3k, which should stall out the engine if the stall converter is working.

44

I think maybe the difference in efficiency, if so, is in the torque converter and not in the transmission.

I don’t think the transmission part of the auto-torque converter combination slips. The transmission part of a 3-speed, for example, is nothing more than a Model T Ford transmission. Hydraulic controls are added to operate the brake bands. Stop one end of the gear assembly for 1st, the other end for 2nd, both ends for reverse and the whole thing rotates as a unit with no internal parts moving for direct drive, or 3rd. What could be simpler?

45

Forget racing, forget cars that cost as much as some people’s houses, forget tests under controlled conditions. I drive, on highways (usually in heavy but fast-moving traffic), on city streets, and in neighborhoods. Mostly, I’m driving a standard, but on trips, I drive rental cars, which are invariably very low-mileage (over 10K is a rarity, IME), hence late-model, automatics. We tend to rent sedans of the small-to-midsize range (for sedans).

Occasionally we rent one that isn’t too bad, that has 90% of the crispness that a stick has, that changes at pretty much the right speeds without a whole lot of dithering, but they’re the exception. The rest of the time it’s Sludge City.

Maybe that’s changing; I don’t know. But that’s what it looks like to me, in renting everyday cars in automatic: still a ways to go.

Plus you still don’t have the anticipatory downshifting, period. I know you can downshift with an automatic, but once you’ve told your right hand to go to sleep, it’s hard to remember to tell it to wake up again right when you need it. When you’re driving a standard and you see that you should downshift because of what’s coming at you, your right hand and left foot are doing it before you really think about it.

46

Also it is in general easier to eat while driving a A/T vs stick.

47

Don’t blame the transmission if “you’ve told your right hand to go to sleep.” And downshifting is overrated. It’s vital for 20 ton big rigs but what piddling little sedan needs when when you’ve got brakes? If my Dodge is in cruise control, it automatically downshifts and upshifts on hills.

48

Engine braking is more important than you think. On a long hill decent, your brakes will get very hot if you don’t use it. Giving you less stopping power if you need it and a higher chance of brake failure.

49

My BS meter is going off

Um. Cite? :rolleyes:

This is such an incredibly wide open question that a single, succint, answer cannot be reached.

Let me start with my qualifications: I have a daily drive stickshift (2001 PT cruiser), I have an Auto Avalanche, Auto 98 Corvette with a supercharger, and an Auto 89 383 Corvette.

What are your criteria?

Overall gas mileage? Go with the standard.

Commute? The easy answer is: go with an auto. The hard answer is: Learn to drive a standard. 2nd gear in my Cruiser in stop n go traffic can be used from 12 to 35 mph. If you’re careful with throttle inputs, you can shift a third as many times as a less accomplished stick stirrer.

Roadcourse? Usually stick, but transmissions like Audi’s SMG are starting to prove otherwise. Our 89 Corvette is an overbuilt race ready 700r4. You want 2nd? grab second, it’s there Right Now.

Towing? You can no longer buy a stickshift pickup set up for towing. Our Avalance has a tow-haul mode that is excellent.

Drag Race? The torque multiplication and consistent shifts hand the win to slushboxes more often than not.

If you drive 40,000 miles a year, the easy answer would be the automatic. If you’re in good shape and ride a roadbike, go with either as the shifts won’t bother you at all.

A daily driver well maintained Automatic will last the life of the car, a clutch will usually last 70,000-110,000 miles, depending on duty. (yes, there are exceptions: 5000 miles for the McLaren F1, and 250,000 miles in some Honda Accords.)

So, what do you want to do, what are your expectations, and how much are you willing to learn?

I will note that a certain slimy portion of the population ‘repairs’ transmissions. Find a good tranny guy is hard to do.

50

Ultimate hp production is only one factor in performance. Other variables like gearing, tire patch, rear gears, temp and humidity, and most importantly the Loose Nut Behind the Wheel.

A Cocky driver and a loud exhaust is worth 50hp and a ton of stickers at the stoplight. :smiley:

51

In the real world, if your right hand and left foot aren’t needed for anything in particular, you can get out of the habit of using them real quick. That’s not good or bad - it just is.

As for downshifting, maybe you live someplace that never gets snow or ice, and you can always use your brakes without fishtailing. Here in Calgary it’s nice to have the option of slowing a car down without hitting the brakes.

52

The bottom line for me is that driving a standard is simply more fun. I have to drive an hour a day to and from work. If I can make it fun instead of boring, that’s worth a lot more than saving $1000 in purchase cost or getting 5% better gas mileage. Those features are gravy. Drive a stick because you’re the kind of person who likes driving a stick. If you’re not, if you see having to shift as a big chore that gets in the way of sipping your Big Gulp, then get an auto, because the small disadvantages that come with an auto transmission pale in comparison to the added workload you’ll hate.

53

I drive autos because my disabled husband would find a stick impossible or nearly impossible to manage.

Die-hard manualists have a bias, and some misconceptions.

I have been driving automatics for 25 years. I have NEVER had a transmission problem or needed to replace a transmission. I generally keep my cars 10+ years.

You DO have to maintain your automatic transmission, which might involve checking and replacing fluids before you have a major, major problem. Just like a manual clutch requires tender loving care and maintenance. ANY machine performs better when properly cared for.

You CAN downshift an automatic, and all those who drive them should know how to do this. In extreme situations you can downshift AND brake, just as in a manual. However, you are better off avoiding such situations in the first place in ANY car.

I live near Chicago, which experiences snow, ice, etc. all winter long. I routinely pass four-wheel drive, manual transmission vehicles stuck in ditches even if I am driving a low-end, not-very-powerful, automatic transmission 2-wheel drive car. Why is that? I know how to drive. You can have the best machine in the world but if the guy behind the wheel is clueless it won’t do him any good. On the other hand, an excellent driver can get surprisingly good results even out of a piece o’ crap car. Don’t undersestimate the skill and contribution of the driver.

A properly driven manual will give better gas mileage - but driven by an incompetant may well get less than a comparable automatic, plus you add in extra wear and tear on parts.

If you do a lot of stop-n-go heavy city traffic driving you may want an automatic. If your driving is more open road, or involves lots of hills, you may want manual. For most people, it doesn’t make that much difference. If you like sticks, go with them. If you like autos, go with them. If you don’t care… well, which care is cheaper to buy and insure?

54

Well stated.

55

Engine braking is needed on an ordinary sedan what percentage of the time for by far the greater fraction of drivers? I hardly think it’s a big factor in deciding whether to buy an auto with manual or automatic transmission. To me it’s way down the list.

I live right next to the Sierra Nevada range and drive in the mountains regularly. I seldom use engine braking but when I need it my automatic either downshifts automatically if in cruise control or I manually lock it in a lower gear at the beginning of the grade.

56

My two cents:

Automatic: I can appreciate the benefits in traffic. But I’ve only ever really been glad for it driving through south London, which isn’t something I do often. And they make it easy to eat breakfast while driving :wink:

Manual: I find them far easier to manouvere when reverse-parking etc. And the sense of control switching between 3rd and 4th on twisty roads is something I really miss in an automatic. And fuel consumption’s a bigger issue, given the cost of petrol here.
(And a word on downshifting - you’ll fail a driving test in Britain if you’re relying on engine-braking, with the exception of steep descents.)

57

Your statement about the longevity of automatics is not accurate in this application unless you are driving high performance sports cars. If you flog an automatic tranny with 300 or more hp you will break it faster than a manual. Yes you can drive a new Corvette to church and back once a week but if you want to have fun with the car then a stick is more reliable on the wallet.

It’s also easier to work on if you are so inclined. A clutch replacement is pretty standard regardless of what car it’s in. If I pulled a modern automatic it would have to go to a shop for service and that is getting really expensive. You use to be able to get a C4 or TH350 rebuild for less than $300.

Remember, the topic is transmissions used in a sports car. I guess if you wanted to occassionally merge on the highway with a little more hp then an auto would suffice. If you want to bang gears then a stick is the more logical choice.

58

Most people do not buy a car to have that kind of “fun” with it. If that sort of driving is your goal then by all means, buy a car suited to the task. If, however, you are looking for utilitarian transportation you will seldom, if ever, need to “flog” a transmission of any sort.

I’m not so inclined. I don’t have the room, I don’t have the tools, and more importantly I don’t have the time. I have other things to do in my life besides change my own oil or make my own car repairs. Having only so many hours in the day, and also, incidently, earning a pretty decent wage, I happily hire someone else to do my car repairs and feel no guilt or loss over it whatsoever. Just like a whole bunch of other people who help support thousands of car mechanics by providing them with steady business.

As far as that goes, yes - however, as I said, most people don’t fall into that category.

For me, a car is tool that gets me and occassionally a small amount of cargo from point A to point B. I’m looking for ease of operation more than anything else. If I want to go fast, or impress someone with my ability to use machinery – well, that’s why I got the pilot’s license and fly airplanes. I don’t feel a need to do fancy manuvers in the car - I’d prefer to entirely avoid situations where that is necessary.

If you enjoy manipulating a stick shift, or you do some sort of specialized driving that requires one, bully for you. But not everyone gets their jollies by making daily driving more complicated, even if that complication is marginal.

59

Depends where you live. I don’t use it much around here, Hertfordshire is pretty flat. When I’m driving around Cornwall I use it on every trip. It really does make a difference. I’ve used the brake too much on a long hill before, and when I got to the bottom they were noticeably less responsive. Having to do an emergancy stop at that point would not have been fun.

The short answer is - anyone who drives down a steep hill, ever.

I agree it’s not much of a factor when deciding which transmission to buy. Like you say, most autos give you the option to lock down to a lower gear so you can use engine braking (the last auto I drove had an L position on the selecter). However, your statement that engine braking isn’t important for most drivers is false.

Question for auto drivers - when would you want to use the lock-up feature to prevent your tranmission from changing down?

60

Speaking as an owner of a couple of Corvettes I’d say you were full of it. A properly maintained Corvette tranny has every chance of outliving the motor, and the motor has every chance of going 150-200,000 miles.

Automatic transmissions do not fail because they run out of clutch material. They fail because the fluid isn’t changed at the recommended service intervals. As the fluid ages, bits of clutch material get suspended in the fluid when it overheats. A late fluid change replaces the fluid (which it providing part of the friction in clutch application) with new fluid and new detergents. Those detergents wash out the varnish and accumulated crap that wasn’t collected by a newer tranny filter, causing them to plug the valves in the valve body.

Changing the fluid every 50,000 miles (35,000 under severe duty loads) will make it last a LONG time.

Fail to catch a broken TV cable (the TV cable tells the transmission how much pressure to use to hold the clutches) and the tranny will fail in an afternoon. By the same token, ride the clutch in a standard transmission and you’ll be changing it 20,000 miles too soon.

A standard transmission (in a Corvette application at least) is capable of handling more horsepower in a power-adder situation. But when you start throwing THAT into the mix, all bets on longevity are off.