# Which city has the WORST traffic, really? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 24, 2001, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-city-has-the-worst-traffic-really/77872 "2001-08-24T07:37:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![geepee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ebca7d/32.png) [@geepee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/geepee)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2001, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-city-has-the-worst-traffic-really/77872/21 "2001-08-24T20:10:50Z")
Tokyo! / Osaka , they have jams soooo long you can starve to death in them and they have good public transport too heh the Japanese counter this by having TVs PCs and karaoke in their cars to pass the time , but japanese roads suck traveling 10 miles can take up to 3 hours the next after that would probably be Paris or athens / Delhi ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2001, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-city-has-the-worst-traffic-really/77872/22 "2001-08-24T20:41:12Z")
According to TIME 1. Los Angeles 2. Washington D.C. 3. Orlando 4. Portland 5. Seattle 6. Chicago 7. Atlanta 8. San Francisco 9. Phoenix 10. Dallas 11. Denver 12. Charlotte 13. New York City 14. San Jose 15. San Diego New York Ciy ranked 13th. Which makes sense as NYC has the number one % and actual number of public transit riders. I was shocked by Portland and Orlando but then as you look at the list only Chicago, NYC and SF have really good public transit. DC is OK but I lived there and it can’t compare to Chgo or NY or SF. Phoenix was rated dead last for public transit along with Charlotte and Dallas. This list was from January and was based on the difference between the time commuting from Suburbs during rush hours and non-rush hour periods. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2001, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-city-has-the-worst-traffic-really/77872/23 "2001-08-24T22:33:50Z")
“Phoenix was rated dead last for public transit along with Charlotte and Dallas.” When was that survey done? Dallas has built a fairly decent light rail system (well, if two lines is a system) that has brought lots of new development along its right-of-way and is being extended out into the suburbs. It also has a popular commuter rail line with hourly service six days a week that is going to be extended to Fort Worth this year or early next year. Both the light and commuter rail have jam-packed park-and-ride lots. Admittedly, Dallas’s rail system is not going to be mistaken for the New York subway, Chicago L or D.C. Metro anytime soon, but I’d hardly put Dallas dead last along with Charlotte and Phoenix. ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2001, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-city-has-the-worst-traffic-really/77872/24 "2001-08-24T23:33:46Z")
Sydney wouldn’t be up there with the very worst, but it certainly feels that ways sometimes. It’s an LA-style sprawling city in which a lot of people want to live in a house with a yard and a dog -and a car. The public transport isn’t great. Our freeway system is embryonic (and expensive), so most commuters use roads built on the original 19th Century horse tracks. Three lanes each way on these roads if you’re lucky, but usually only two. Traffic lights galore. The real problems start when there is an incident of some sort: traffic just stops. If there is a major accident at any one of a number of key sites (eg. the Sydney Harbour Bridge), it’s instant gridlock. Even a wet Friday night can do it. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2001, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-city-has-the-worst-traffic-really/77872/25 "2001-08-24T23:43:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Markxxx \* > \*\* > I was shocked by Portland and Orlando but then as you look at the list only Chicago, NYC and SF have really good public transit. \*\* I’m afraid I cannot allow anyone to think that SF has good public transit. BART is good, Muni SUCKITY-SUCK-SUCK-SUCKS. I have lived in Dallas, and it was pretty bad, but SF can take the Pepsi challenge with any City during commuting hours. It takes me over an hour to get 36 miles. Of the cities I’ve visited, and I’ve been to all of the US ones on that list, LA is hands-down the worst I’ve experienced. Although, if your commute takes you from San Jose to San Francisco, wouldn’t that qualify as the worst, since both cities are in the top 15? (And this is a realistic commute - about 50 miles separates them down Hwy 101). ---
**Author:** ![gtzaskar00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9c0ed/32.png) [@gtzaskar00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gtzaskar00)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2001, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-city-has-the-worst-traffic-really/77872/26 "2001-08-25T00:12:53Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by Dooku \* \*\* > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Markxxx \* > \*\* > I have lived in Dallas, and it was pretty bad, but SF can take the Pepsi challenge with any City during commuting hours. It takes me over an hour to get 36 miles. > \*\* Hmm… an hour to get 36 miles… that is child’s play. Considering that would be about a little less than a 30 mph average, you should feel lucky. To get from my house on the northside of Chicago to downtown, during the right time of day, it would take well over an hour, to go a distance of about 4 miles. I can not speak for any other city, as I have no driven in many other large cities during rush hour. However, if I could get 36 miles in a little over an hour, I would have thought it was a blessing. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2001, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-city-has-the-worst-traffic-really/77872/27 "2001-08-25T00:31:11Z")
**gtzaskar00** , Yikes!! I will recite your commute as a mantra as I drive home tonight in the congestion. [sub] sneaking off to thank the traffic gods for my commute…[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2001, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-city-has-the-worst-traffic-really/77872/28 "2001-08-25T00:40:29Z")
**Dooku** you were able to travel 36 miles in hour during rush hour in the SF Bay Area? That’s pretty impressive. There must have been no bridges involved. That’s not the Bay Area I’ve driven in. ---
**Author:** ![TheeGrumpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@TheeGrumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheeGrumpy)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2001, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-city-has-the-worst-traffic-really/77872/29 "2001-08-25T00:45:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dooku \* > **I’m afraid I cannot allow anyone to think that SF has good public transit. BART is good, Muni SUCKITY-SUCK-SUCK-SUCKS.** Seems to me if you can gripe about one sucky public transportation system and still have one left over, then your city is in good shape, transit-wise. Some other cities (or bay-encircling regions) aren’t so lucky. Granted, downtown SF is a mess. I only spent two days driving thru the city, but I almost went mad trying to turn off Market Street. There should be an index for quality of transportation vs. how much residents complain about it. If your roads are a warzone and nobody cares, that’s one thing. If people scream bloody murder because the roads are slightly sub-optimal, that’s something else altogether. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2001, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-city-has-the-worst-traffic-really/77872/30 "2001-08-25T00:45:39Z")
I think the Asian cities are a lot worse than in America. In the US, traffic slows but still moves. It’s just a volume thing. You don’t have the standard Asian bottle neck where a 3 lane road has cars 5 &6 abreast, motorcycles weaving around, pedestrians not even looking as they cross the street, trying to make a right hand turn from the furthermost left hand lane, the invariable fender bender and 30 minute shouting match in the middle of the mess and an elevated tollroad offramp feeding another 2 lanes of cars into this belching mess. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2001, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-city-has-the-worst-traffic-really/77872/31 "2001-08-25T01:30:30Z")
Correct, **BobT** , straight down the Peninsula, 101 from SF to Mtn View. I’m sure 36 miles from, say, Alameda to Mill Valley would be much worse. **TheeGrumpy** , BART doesn’t help inside SF at all, so I’m forced to rely on Muni or drive, which isn’t much of a choice… Although I don’t even know why anyone in the US should complain - if the rich are taking Helicopters to get to work in Rio, that’s gotta qualify for some sort of honorary mention. ---
**Author:** ![xanakis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/7bcc69/32.png) [@xanakis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xanakis)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2001, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-city-has-the-worst-traffic-really/77872/32 "2001-08-25T01:40:30Z")
I once went to India and, just outside Delhi, I got stuck in a jam several miles long, when I (eventually) reached the front of the queue I discovered it was being caused by a cow lying down in the middle of the road so the traffic had to bottleneck in order to drive around it! ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2001, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-city-has-the-worst-traffic-really/77872/33 "2001-08-25T02:27:57Z")
I’ve heard that the worst traffic in the world is Cairo - I’ve never been there, but according to my old Let’s Go Israel & Egypt travel guide, the accident rate in Egypt is _44 times_ that of the United States. (I know that’s the whole country, not the city, but still. The guide even gives rather amusing directions on how to cross the street, comparing it to playing Frogger.) I met a South African guy in Ben-Gurion Airport who told me that he’d just spent two weeks in Cairo, and he couldn’t figure out which direction you’re supposed to drive. I laughed, thinking it was a joke, but he shook his head and told me that he was serious. And my one taxi ride in Egypt (in Sinai), convinced me that he was telling the truth. Okay, that may not actually be the worst _traffic_ in the world, but Egyptians appear to be the world’s worst _drivers_, which I imagine doesn’t help. ---
**Author:** ![straykat23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@straykat23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straykat23)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2001, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-city-has-the-worst-traffic-really/77872/34 "2001-08-25T06:07:04Z")
I’d have to say that Bangkok is the worse I’ve ever seen. Was told that in city planning that 20-25% of land should be devoted to streets; in Bangkok it’s something like 13%. I have no cite for this other than a co-worker telling me he’d read the stats.) Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, is another like Bangkok, except you have to add the late afternoon downpour (during rush hour) to the mix. Many of the streets are low-lying and flood every time it rains. The motorcycles and motorbikes probably outnumber the cars, and frequently you see three or more family members on the same bike. Add the three-wheeled trikes that the bread sellers and vegetable hawkers ride and it makes for an interesting commute. The majority of intesections are roundabouts where no one follows the ‘rules’ for entering and exiting. The amazing thing is that I never saw any accidents! Traffic moves too slowly for anything more than slight fender benders. It’s just as well; an emergency vehicle would never be able to reach an accident scene. After reading about Cairo, I have a perverse desire to go there to make comparisons. ---
**Author:** ![gorewonfla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/da6949/32.png) [@gorewonfla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gorewonfla)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2001, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-city-has-the-worst-traffic-really/77872/35 "2001-08-25T06:40:12Z")
The DC area’s traffic has gone down significantly since 1976, when the Metro was built (a side note: I have been on many subways, and the Washington metro is cheaper, cleaner, more efficient and more punctual than all of them). Before that it was pure torture. The city was built to prevent invasion (and it failed, in 1814 the Brits burned it to the ground), and that’s not very conducive to driving. Many parts of the downtown area are also one-way streets, forcing you to go in circles, and parking is sparse. For a while I lived within walking distance to work, but school was across town (I managed to do both at the same time), so I’d have to get in my car during rush hour and inch my way to class. It’d be only about 30 city blocks, but it’d take me at least an hour. Now, thanks to the Metro, the traffic in the city is much better. However, the Beltway (I-495, which encircles the city) is mind-numbingly slow. I have also lived in Boston, but only for about a year and I didn’t drive too much. Geographically, the city isn’t too big, a plus, but the drivers are maniacs and the Central Artery is clogged end-to-end during rush hour. That’s why the Big Dig is so important. I have driven in New York, Chicago, and LA recently. Pre-1976 Washington was much worse than them. I actually thought driving in LA wasn’t too bad, but I mostly stayed on the highways. Chicago can be rough, but I thought the drivers were much better than anywhere on the Eastern Seaboard. Must be that midwestern friendliness. New York is clogged, and I did manage to get in a fender-bender, but overall it wasn’t as bad as DC. I never drive when I travel abroad (which is rare in and of itself) because of my experience in Paris. I (studpidly) rented a car and I spent about 30 minutes just circling l’Arc de Triomphe desperately looking for openings. Apparently there’s no word in French for “yield.” ---
**Author:** ![Jorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@Jorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jorge)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-city-has-the-worst-traffic-really/77872/36 "2001-08-28T04:41:22Z")
Percentage over carrying capacity as a possible measure of traffic ugliness: Today’s local NPR news in Honolulu reports that, with the opening of school, traffic flow will increase to 2,200 vehicles per hour, on a road with a carrying capacity of just **2,000**. No other cites by them, other than the State Dept. of Transportation, though. ---
**Author:** ![Cerowyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/82dd89/32.png) [@Cerowyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerowyn)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-city-has-the-worst-traffic-really/77872/37 "2001-08-28T05:17:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sunspace \* > \*\*I’ve heard that Toronto and Los Angeles are tied for ‘worst traffic in North America’. \*\* I can’t believe this is true. I live 45 km from the office, which is _right_ downtown (Richmond & John for those who care), and it rarely takes me more than 40 minutes in the morning. I don’t leave until after dinner-time, usually, so I can’t really speak to the afternoon rush-hour. Base on my own anecdotal evidence, I’d have to say that NYC in the rain probably takes the cake. Last December, it took me more than an hour to go 30 blocks in a taxi, with most of the time stopped on Central Park West. Not that I’d like to drive in London or Paris, either ([Danny Vermin]I made that mistake in London **once** [/Danny Vermin]). ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-city-has-the-worst-traffic-really/77872/38 "2001-08-28T05:35:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gorewonfla \* > \*\*(a side note: I have been on many subways, and the Washington metro is cheaper, cleaner, more efficient and more punctual than all of them). \*\* cheaper? It’s the most expensive subway I’ve ever ridden on. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-city-has-the-worst-traffic-really/77872/39 "2001-08-28T06:43:47Z")
> [@](#): > > 1. Denver Sounds about right. Other than the interstates during rush hour traffic goes pretty steadily. The worst traffic jams in the area, however, are world class on any scale. If there is an accident on 70 coming into Denver at the end of a three day weekend, however you can get a backup from Denver to the Eisenhower tunnel(60 miles). The news always has interviews of people who have sitting in the jam for 8 or nine hours. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2001, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-city-has-the-worst-traffic-really/77872/40 "2001-08-28T13:04:50Z")
It is not classified as a city, but Bergen County, New Jersey has to be comparable to some of the worst. What started as a bunch of small “boroughs” grew willy-nilly into a major metropolis-like structure. Nobody can navigate parts of it without a good road map and lots of cajones. Particularly in rush hour, it is a nightmare. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-city-has-the-worst-traffic-really/77872.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-city-has-the-worst-traffic-really/77872.md?page=3)