It was nice to see a reference to my employer (NavTech) actually Navigation Technologies.
I spent 1 week in Boston recently, and I have to say downtown Boston is absolutely insane!!! The old streets were not made for cars, you drive on the front steps of people’s houses. The drivers are rude, they swear at you if you don’t go fast enough…ugh I was glad to get the hell outa there.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by gtzaskar00 *
**
<major hijack>
Why the hell would anyone commute 36 miles??? And why would someone in Chicago drive 4 miles in downtown rush hour??? You can walk it in less than an hour? If you take the CTA, it’s a 10 minute ride.
Geez, commuters are starting to rank right up there with smokers and voters in Florida for the dumbest people on the planet.
</hijack>
<major hijack by The Great Gazoo>
I know nothing about the situation in Chicago, and it appears you may be in the same situation with respect to the SF Bay Area. In the past few years, housing has become a major crisis in this area. There are thousands more jobs then there are places to live, and while this is true of many cities, which then develop suburban areas, the suburbs have had to stretch even further away.
In SF, a teacher makes around $38,000/yr. Average rent just dropped below $2000/mo. (Sure, they can afford that as long as they don’t like eating or have any student loans to pay off). A lot of jobs are like this; firemen, police, and other needed but lower-paying jobs require people to live very far away. While the current slowdown has improved things, there’s absolutely nothing unusual about a 36-mile commute.
If you want to continue the hijack further, it would probably be best to start a new thread. Because I’ve seen the traffic in Bangkok, and nothing I’ve seen in the US comes even close to that.
side note to Dooku :
If you were actually going from San Jose to SF, you’d be in luck, since 280 is completely open just about anytime you go (most of the time people are going at least 70-75). Just two weeks ago I was driving all the way from San Jose (680 at Berryessa) into SF, at 880/17 it slowed down to about 25-30, but otherwise no problems at all.
The other direction is indeed a different story lately.
It’s a buck ten to get nearly anywhere in the city. That’s pretty cheap, considering how good the service is.
I live in the LA area, and I used to think traffic here was pretty bad. There was the incident on the San Diego Freeway a few years back, with the overturned trash truck that then caught fire, covering all five lanes with burning refuse; drivers were stuck for so long that we all got out of our cars and were walking around.
Then I took a vacation that included a short visit to Djakarta. There I got to see a determined rickshaw driver playing “chicken” with a delivery truck for ownership of the lane. (The word “lane” is a gross overstatement.) My cabbie scared the bejeezus out of me several hundred times in a two mile trip. I will never complain again.
This site only has US cities, but it is interesting. The page that it takes you to is just a local page from Pittsburgh, but if you click around you can get stats and what not.
http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/sh/news/stories/nat-news-75793320010507-110552.html
Even after Athens, London, Melbourne, Lima, New York, Philadelphia, Houston, Denver, Istanbul and L.A., I freaking hate driving in Dallas. Everybody’s in a hurry, rude, and pushing their phone-laden, cig butt-tossing SUV around like it’s nible as a moped. Don’t give me a gun there because I’ll end up doing time.
“Then I took a vacation that included a short visit to Djakarta. There I got to see a determined rickshaw driver playing “chicken” with a delivery truck for ownership of the lane. (The word “lane” is a gross overstatement.) My cabbie scared the bejeezus out of me several hundred times in a two mile trip. I will never complain again.”
“Anyone from Jakarta? My sister-in-law lives there it it sounds really horrific.”
Jakarta traffic is really bad. A trip that takes 20 min on Sunday morning can take 2 hours on Monday afternoon. And the way people drive can be really intimidating (<5 cm clearance between vehicles, indifference to lane markers, etc.) but there are amazingly few accidents because the drivers are actually good (many are professionals, almost all are alert) and actually quite courteous (if you understand the system). If you put one quarter as many Angelenos on the same roads they would have eternal gridlock.
Atlanta already seems to be in contention for “longest commutes” But I will nominate it for worst drivers as well. The lengthy commutes are increased as a result of its astoundly high accident rate which IMHO is due to terrible drivers. Going 75 down the interstate you’ll have people doing 45 in the left lane and 85 in the right lane and some $^(^% crawling up your exhaust pipe. There is no law enforcement (except for HOV lane use) and stupid and/or angry and/or drunk and/or untrained drivers make travel hair raising. They also slow it down. In New York and LA, dense traffic often moves well at 60-70 mph. In Atlanta, at the same density, traffic would come to a halt.
When it’s not ‘rush-hour fares.’ As I recall, non-rush
is from about 10 am to 2 pm.
**
[/QUOTE]
<major hijack>
Why the hell would anyone commute 36 miles??? And why would someone in Chicago drive 4 miles in downtown rush hour??? You can walk it in less than an hour? If you take the CTA, it’s a 10 minute ride.
Geez, commuters are starting to rank right up there with smokers and voters in Florida for the dumbest people on the planet.
</hijack> **
[/QUOTE]
Well, I don’t believe I ever said that I commuted those miles everyday, but I will play your game. I actually bike everywhere I can possibly do so in the city. I am also an avid rider of the CTA, but you are quite wrong in stating that the public transportation commute from my place to the heart of the Loop would be a ten minute affair. Of course, the busses have to fight that same traffic, and the bus ride from my place to the L station would be at least 15 minutes, counting waiting time. The train ride would be at least another 15-20 minutes. Walking there is a great idea, unless of course it is raining and I am on my way to work or school.
I work in Washington, DC, and a friend of mine and I had a long-running competition to see who could break the 20-minute barrier in getting from the doorway of our office building just north of the White House to the House office buildings next to the Capitol, a distance of 2.8-3.0 miles, depending on the cabbie.
Neither of us has broken it in two years, although we’ve both come close. That adds up to a stately top speed of nine miles an hour, maximum, but includes the time necessary to hail a taxi.
Much appreciated. Most of my GQ threads get ignored (sniff).
So, it seems that we’ve established:
North American traffic, while often bad, isn’t so bad because at least you have proper lanes, highways, and often one or more public trans systems as semi-alternatives.
European traffic is hampered by old-style windy roads and sometimes crazy drivers, but otherwise doesn’t sound like the worst, except maybe Paris with its moped mobs.
Asian cities still appear to be the worst, with its lack of infrastructure, road coverage, flood control, and laws.
Cairo is really, really bad. Possibly our #1 non-Asian contender.
Bangkok, despite my weak efforts to cite its improvements, still sucks ass, traffic-wise. I can see that now.
As far as the OP and “scientific measurements” go, no one knows of any real studies done, not internationally anyway, and in fact it’s hard to even establish a standard of how to define “worst.”
Everyone’s got a good traffic anecdote, which he/she will defend vigorously as quasi-proof, because his/her suffering ought to count for SOMETHING, damnit.
So:
My question now: Has anyone been to South America? Doesn’t seem like anyone can bear witness to the legendary Sao Paulo traffic jams that I’ve heard of. Anyone?
Maybe we should define “worst” traffic as that which is UNAVOIDABLE for most citizens. For example I know Tokyo is bad, but I also know that Tokyo has some of the densest/most thorough subway coverage in the world. Heard the same about DC, and for that matter, Paris.
I happen to be a big fan of PT (pub trans) and sympathize little with people who drive when they don’t have to. I mean, okay, for suburbanites who can’t take a train (like they do from Long Island-NY) then there’s no choice, but when I posted the OP what I had in mind was: which city is the worst traffic nightmare, no matter how hard you try to design your life to minimize it?
I think we can thus eliminate Paris, Tokyo, London, NY, Chicago, DC, and Boston. Dallas still qualifies, as does any city with a PT system that’s only got TWO pithy lines or fewer (like Bangkok).
<major hijack>
Why the hell would anyone commute 36 miles??? And why would someone in Chicago drive 4 miles in downtown rush hour??? You can walk it in less than an hour? If you take the CTA, it’s a 10 minute ride.
Geez, commuters are starting to rank right up there with smokers and voters in Florida for the dumbest people on the planet.
</hijack> **
[/QUOTE]
Well, I don’t believe I ever said that I commuted those miles everyday, but I will play your game. I actually bike everywhere I can possibly do so in the city. I am also an avid rider of the CTA, but you are quite wrong in stating that the public transportation commute from my place to the heart of the Loop would be a ten minute affair. Of course, the busses have to fight that same traffic, and the bus ride from my place to the L station would be at least 15 minutes, counting waiting time. The train ride would be at least another 15-20 minutes. Walking there is a great idea, unless of course it is raining and I am on my way to work or school. **
[/QUOTE]
As a person who got caught in that unbelievable rain storm we had 2 weeks ago, I feel your pain 
But, that was really the only time I’ve been caught in a major rainstorm in the past 4 years - I’ve barely been drizzled on - it seems like a miracle, but for some reason, it doesn’t rain during rush hour! (of course, now I’ve just jinxed it)
It’s strikes me that, even with all the riding and waiting, it would still be less than an hour. I am not a big fan of the CTA, I walk 2 miles to work for the last year and 5 miles for the previous 3 years. Good exercise, and you are never late!
BTW, bike riders, stay off the sidewalk!!!
When I spent time in Germany, it seemed very much like America with regards to traffic. No insane masses of roundabouts like Blighty, no teeming crowds of mopeds, and no people getting out to yell at each other like in Paris. Arc de Capitulation roundabout, anyone?
The M25, no question.
3 hours to do 20 miles this morning.
[sub]What do you mean it’s not a city? It certainly appears to have a large enough resident population![/sub]
Oh alright. The M6 then.
pan