# Which countries have discontinuous territory? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 7, 2009, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countries-have-discontinuous-territory/498966 "2009-06-07T01:15:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2009, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countries-have-discontinuous-territory/498966/41 "2009-06-07T22:26:11Z")
> [@Markxxx](#): > > I find things like part of Manhattan is now connected directly to the rest of the Bronx. Huh? I don’t think so. Manhattan is an island, entirely surrounded by water. The Bronx is on the mainland of the United States. Unless I’ve misunderstood what you mean, the only things directly connecting Manhattan to the Bronx are bridges. Sure, you can take the subway, or drive over a bridge. Is that what you mean by “connected”? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2009, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countries-have-discontinuous-territory/498966/42 "2009-06-07T22:49:52Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > Huh? I don’t think so. Manhattan is an island, entirely surrounded by water. The Bronx is on the mainland of the United States. Unless I’ve misunderstood what you mean, the only things directly connecting Manhattan to the Bronx are bridges. Sure, you can take the subway, or drive over a bridge. Is that what you mean by “connected”? He’s talking about [Marble Hill](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marble_Hill,_Manhattan), part of the Borough of Manhattan (New York County) which is located on the mainland, not on Manhattan Island. It originated by filling in a side channel of the Harlem River. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Philosopher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3ec8ea/32.png) [@The\_Great\_Philosopher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Philosopher)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2009, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countries-have-discontinuous-territory/498966/43 "2009-06-07T22:50:29Z")
The [Wikipedia article on exclaves](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclave) already quoted says these are all the ‘true’ exclaves: Angola: Cabinda Austria: Jungholz (connected to Austria by a single point) Azerbaijan: Nakhichevan Belgium: Baarle-Hertog Brunei: Temburong East Timor: Oecussi-Ambeno France: French Guiana Italy: Campione d’Italia Germany: Büsingen am Hochrhein Oman: Musandam Russia: Kaliningrad Spain: Ceuta, Llivia, and Melilla United States: Alaska ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2009, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countries-have-discontinuous-territory/498966/44 "2009-06-07T23:16:58Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > The territory of [Timor-Leste](http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/middle_east_and_asia/east_timor_rel_2002.jpg) (East Timor) is discontinuous on the island of Timor. East Timor is now a fully independent nation. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2009, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countries-have-discontinuous-territory/498966/45 "2009-06-08T01:20:29Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > East Timor is now a fully independent nation. Of course. Where did I indicate otherwise? I meant the national territory was discontinuous, not that it was the territory of another country. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2009, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countries-have-discontinuous-territory/498966/46 "2009-06-08T02:50:25Z")
A portion of Tierra del Fuego belongs to Argentina, but is not contiguous with the rest of the country. TDF is an island, but the Chilean side of the island is separated from mainland Chile only by the Magellan Strait, which is only two miles wide. So it’s not exactly a remote island. The northernmost portion of Argentinian TDF is about 30 miles from mainland Argentina. (I noticed this today on my world map shower curtain.) ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2009, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countries-have-discontinuous-territory/498966/47 "2009-06-08T07:21:58Z")
Where would [Equatorial Guinea](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Equatorialguineamap.png) fit into all this? It’s a country on the continent of Africa whose capital, Malabo, sits on an island off the coast of Cameroon, its neighbor to the north; it also has another island province (Annobon) on the other side of Sao Tome and Principe. I don’t know where you could find maritime charts showing the international waters boundary for the three countries, but it would seem likely you’d have to cross STP territory to get from Bioko (the island with Malabo on it) to Annabon, and for most Equatoguineans it might make just as much sense to go through Cameroon and take a shorter ferry ride than it would to go straight from the EQG coast. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2009, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countries-have-discontinuous-territory/498966/48 "2009-06-08T09:31:05Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > However, Britain’s overseas territories/dependencies also include Gilbraltar, Bermuda, the Caymans, Anguilla, Monserrat, Diego Garcia, Pitcairn Island, Ascension Island, Tristan De Cunha, the South Sandwich Islands and South Georgia, and the Turks and Caicos, most of which have somebody else’s sovereign territory in between them and the UK. The island of Diego Garcia is just one of the islands in British Indian Ocean Territory. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stafford_cripps/32/7167_2.png) [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stafford_Cripps)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2009, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countries-have-discontinuous-territory/498966/49 "2009-06-08T10:00:51Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > UK and the Falklands? Unlike the situation in France, the UK’s overseas territories are not actually part of the UK, so they don’t meet the OP’s requirements in any way. For example, the residents don’t vote in the UK’s elections. If you can find a detailed map of British counties from before 1880 you’ll see dozens of bits of counties separated within the same landmass. [Cromartyshire](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cromartyshire) in particular was a clever joke. Of these, Flintshire (as has already been mentioned), Lancashire and Dumbartonshire survived in a discontinuous form until the 1970s when boundaries (and local authority responsibilities) were again re-drawn. ---
**Author:** ![Meurglys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/258eb7/32.png) [@Meurglys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meurglys)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2009, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countries-have-discontinuous-territory/498966/50 "2009-06-08T12:40:38Z")
> [@G. Odoreida](#): > > Unlike the situation in France, the UK’s overseas territories are not actually part of the UK, so they don’t meet the OP’s requirements in any way. For example, the residents don’t vote in the UK’s elections. Curiously, for the recent European Parliament elections, the residents of Gibralter had their votes included in the totals for the South West Region (of the UK)… or so I heard on tv during their coverage. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2009, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countries-have-discontinuous-territory/498966/51 "2009-06-08T13:26:42Z")
> [@G. Odoreida](#): > > Unlike the situation in France, the UK’s overseas territories are not actually part of the UK, so they don’t meet the OP’s requirements in any way. For example, the residents don’t vote in the UK’s elections. No, but they aren’t sovereign states so they have to be considered part of the UK. In theory, Westminster could turf out the local government and install a new one if it felt like it, yes? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stafford_cripps/32/7167_2.png) [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stafford_Cripps)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2009, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countries-have-discontinuous-territory/498966/52 "2009-06-08T14:17:50Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > No, but they aren’t sovereign states so they have to be considered part of the UK. It may come down to semantics, but I disagree. Before 1997 I don’t think many people would say that Hong Kong was “part of the UK”. Do people call Puerto Rico “part of the USA”? > [@](#): > > In theory, Westminster could turf out the local government and install a new one if it felt like it, yes? If it could it’s only because the populations of the remaining overseas territories are so tiny that they can’t become dominions. If OSTs are part of the same country, then pre 1997 Hong Kong and Gibralter qualify for this thread since parts of Hong Kong are on the same land mass as Gibralter - that alone says to me that UK OSTs are not part of the UK. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2009, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countries-have-discontinuous-territory/498966/53 "2009-06-08T14:41:52Z")
> [@G. Odoreida](#): > > It may come down to semantics, but I disagree. Before 1997 I don’t think many people would say that Hong Kong was “part of the UK”. Do people call Puerto Rico “part of the USA”? Well, the people who know it’s part of the US do. You’d be amazed how many people around here think Puerto Rico is a sovereign state, like, say, the Dominican Republic, and that Puerto Ricans have to apply for a visa or something. I think it’s because they have their own baseball team. I see your point about Hong Kong, but I think that was partly to do with the fact that everyone knew it was going back to China “soon” (at least, it was always “soon” during my lifetime, since I wasn’t born until 1982). ETA: What parts of Hong Kong are on the same land mass as Gibraltar?!?!? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stafford_cripps/32/7167_2.png) [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stafford_Cripps)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2009, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countries-have-discontinuous-territory/498966/54 "2009-06-08T15:14:35Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Well, the people who know it’s part of the US do. But as far as I know, its population and land area figures are not included in those for the USA, just as those for the Falklands are not included in the UK’s. The Wikipedia section on Puerto Rico says under “Political Status” that the US Supreme Court sees it a an “unincorporated territory” which is “a territory appurtenant and belonging to the United States, but not a part of the United States.” There are cites for this in the article. > [@](#): > > What parts of Hong Kong are on the same land mass as Gibraltar?!?!? Those parts that aren’t islands. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2009, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countries-have-discontinuous-territory/498966/55 "2009-06-08T15:24:07Z")
In addition to the 50 states, Puerto Rico and the District of Columbia are both included in the US Census (though the other US territories, such as Guam, are not). Gibraltar is an island. It’s not on any land mass. Even if you count islands as part of a land mass (which presumably you don’t, since you specified mainland Hong Kong), what does that have to do with anything? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stafford_cripps/32/7167_2.png) [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stafford_Cripps)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2009, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countries-have-discontinuous-territory/498966/56 "2009-06-08T15:30:51Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > In addition to the 50 states, Puerto Rico and the District of Columbia are both included in the US Census (though the other US territories, such as Guam, are not). Hmm, I still think it comes down to what you mean by being “part” of a country. Do people see Guam as being part of the USA? > [@](#): > > Gibraltar is an island. No it ain’t. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2009, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countries-have-discontinuous-territory/498966/57 "2009-06-08T15:32:11Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Gibraltar is an island. It’s not on any land mass. Even if you count islands as part of a land mass (which presumably you don’t, since you specified mainland Hong Kong), what does that have to do with anything? Gibraltar is the end of a peninsula, and has a land boundary with Spain. So you could (in theory) walk from Gibraltar to Kowloon (in the centre of Hong Kong) without crossing any seas. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2009, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countries-have-discontinuous-territory/498966/58 "2009-06-08T15:37:04Z")
> [@G. Odoreida](#): > > Hmm, I still think it comes down to what you mean by being “part” of a country. Do people see Guam as being part of the USA? Honestly, I have no idea. I don’t even know where Guam is. I imagine the average American only knows Guam as the land of the asterisk. (Pretty much every federal government form ever seen has at least one question like, "Did you claim IRS exemption 106i69493-ZYC in fiscal 2008?\* \*except in Guam") > [@](#): > > No it ain’t. Whoah. So it isn’t. My whole life I’d gone around thinking it was an island equidistant between Spain and Morocco. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2009, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countries-have-discontinuous-territory/498966/59 "2009-06-08T17:16:25Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Of course. Where did I indicate otherwise? I meant the national territory was discontinuous, not that it was the territory of another country. On re-reading I see that. On first notice, it seemed that you were suggesting that it was discontiguous with Timor, not on the island of Timor. I think I missed a word. Sorry about that, Colibri. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2009, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countries-have-discontinuous-territory/498966/60 "2009-06-08T18:13:12Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Honestly, I have no idea. I don’t even know where Guam is. I imagine the average American only knows Guam as the land of the asterisk. > > (Pretty much every federal government form ever seen has at least one question like, "Did you claim IRS exemption 106i69493-ZYC in fiscal 2008?\* > > \*except in Guam") > > Whoah. So it isn’t. My whole life I’d gone around thinking it was an island equidistant between Spain and Morocco. Sometimes, you do tend to live up to your screen name. This post is one of those times. 😉 As for overseas territories that belong to the United Kingdom, it’s not possible to easily compare them with the concept of overseas territories/protectorates of the United States. That’s because the UK is a monarchy, and the United States is not. This creates fundamental differences in discussing the status of “subjects of the crown” in comparison to residents of places owned by the U.S. but not yet admitted to the federal compact. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countries-have-discontinuous-territory/498966.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countries-have-discontinuous-territory/498966.md?page=4)