# Which countries have discontinuous territory? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 7, 2009, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countries-have-discontinuous-territory/498966 "2009-06-07T01:15:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countries-have-discontinuous-territory/498966/81 "2009-06-09T07:52:37Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Bottom line for the Kentucky Bend: You have to leave the state of Kentucky to get to this piece of Kentucky. Such is not the case for Point Roberts, Technically, you do have to leave Washington state to get to Pt Roberts. Pt Roberts is about 10 miles or so from the rest of the state. In the US, each state (except FL and TX) owns the ocean only out 3.5 miles. So you have to go through non-Washington waters to get there. However, the waters are still owned by the US. ---
**Author:** ![MarcusF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/67e7ee/32.png) [@MarcusF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarcusF)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countries-have-discontinuous-territory/498966/82 "2009-06-09T10:54:50Z")
Apologies if someone has already mentioned it but the southern piece of Croatia (around Dubrovnik) is separated from the rest by a narrow strip of Bosnia that touches the coast. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stafford_cripps/32/7167_2.png) [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stafford_Cripps)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countries-have-discontinuous-territory/498966/83 "2009-06-09T12:51:21Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > An exclave of the first kind is a parcel of land belonging to political unit X which is surrounded by political uint Y or units T, Z, W, etc., with no contiguous link between them. > > An exclave of the second kind, which seems to be what the majority of discussants in this thread are debating the definition of, is a parcel of land belonging to one political unit which is located on the same land mass (continent, island, etc.) as the rest of that political unit, but which is not accessible by land from the rest of the political unit without either going through a different political unit or taking to water. I know I’m being stupid here, but I can’t see the difference. Doesn’t the USA (lower 48 + Alaska) satisfy both? And if the requirement of the first kind is that the exclave is completely surrounded by land, then isn’t it just an example of the second kind without a coast? ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countries-have-discontinuous-territory/498966/84 "2009-06-09T16:13:15Z")
> [@G. Odoreida](#): > > I know I’m being stupid here, but I can’t see the difference. Doesn’t the USA (lower 48 + Alaska) satisfy both? And if the requirement of the first kind is that the exclave is completely surrounded by land, then isn’t it just an example of the second kind without a coast? It’s not necessarily true that the exclave be landlocked, though nearly all cases would prove out that way. But suppose an alternate world where San Francisco is part of Nevada, which otherwise has the same boundaries as in our world. While San Francisco is not landlocked, it’s impossible to get from it to the rest of Nevada without going through California, or by sea to Oregon and then east and south through Oregon. In other words, you must enter a different political entity to get from one part of the one with an exclave to the other. Another, more historical example might be if Connecticut had kept the Western Reserve, so that Cleveland and Akron were parts of Connecticut – both halves of the state would have water boundary, but it would be impossible to get from one to the other without passing through a ‘foreign’ entity (New York and Pennsylvania, or down the Seaway and through Ontario, New York, and Quebec to the ocean). ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countries-have-discontinuous-territory/498966/85 "2009-06-09T16:19:41Z")
Added after time-out: Alaska is an excellent example of the second kind – it’s on the same land mass (continental North A,merica) is “the lower 48” but physically separated by land by B.C. (and by road, the trip requires passing through Yukon Territory as well). But it’s not the first kind since access by international waters is quite possible (and in fact was for many years the main way to and from Alaska). ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countries-have-discontinuous-territory/498966/86 "2009-06-09T16:47:02Z")
I favour the rule that the other part of the territory must not be accessible by water belonging to the territory. Otherwise, any territory bisected by a river would count. So in ascending order of “meeting the spirit of the OP”, we have Hawaii, USA - island(s), so not exclave French Guiana, France - exclave, but not connected by land to the rest of France Upper Peninsula, MI - accessible via Michigan waters Kentucky Bend KY, Point Roberts WA - accessible via US waters but not without leaving the state Alaska, USA - accessible via international waters Llivia, Spain - accessible only by land The last three count, in my book. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countries-have-discontinuous-territory/498966/87 "2009-06-09T17:17:29Z")
Puerto Rico obviously doesn’t count, per the OP; it’s a U.S. commonwealth reachable by water without passing through the territory of another nation. Tangent: I remember touring U.N. headquarters awhile back and seeing a world map that showed “occupied territories,” Puerto Rico among them! The District of Columbia National Guard has its armory in Maryland, IIRC, which is treated as D.C. territory despite being noncontiguous. Likewise the Cleveland House of Correction (city jail), which is in a nearby suburb. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countries-have-discontinuous-territory/498966/88 "2009-06-09T17:41:48Z")
> [@Terminus\_Est](#): > > [Ellis Island](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellis_Island#Federal_jurisdiction_and_state_sovereignty_dispute): The original, natural island is part of New York, but it’s completely surrounded by landfill that the Supreme Court ruled is part of New Jersey. The entire island is itself in New Jersey waters. Duly noted and logged into my brain, thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countries-have-discontinuous-territory/498966/89 "2009-06-09T19:54:34Z")
> [@Keeve](#): > > Yes, that is a great example. Are there no other examples like that within the USA? No other states such that in order to traverse all parts of the state one must go through another state? A few more: Most people think [Kaskaskia, Illinois](http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=wl)is an island in the Mississippi River. Actually it’s connected to Missouri and only reachable through Missouri. The airport in St. Joseph, MO is on the west side of the Missouri River and reachable only through Kansas. Not only is Carter Lake, Iowa on the west side of the Missouri River, but the road to the Omaha airport runs through Carter Lake. And there are several slices of Kentucky around Henderson that lie on the north side of the Ohio River. These geographic quirks are all the results of the rivers changing course after the state boundaries were established. ---
**Author:** ![ChrisBooth12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@ChrisBooth12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChrisBooth12)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countries-have-discontinuous-territory/498966/90 "2009-06-09T21:31:37Z")
So are their any rules set forth by the UN for enclaved countries? Like [Lesotho](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesotho) for instance is inside South Africa. What if they are not self sufficient, and South Africa doesn’t export to them and doesn’t allow them to use their airspace? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countries-have-discontinuous-territory/498966/91 "2009-06-09T22:27:03Z")
They’re f\*\*\*ed? ---
**Author:** ![Notassmartasithought](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c0e974/32.png) [@Notassmartasithought](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Notassmartasithought)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countries-have-discontinuous-territory/498966/92 "2009-06-10T07:01:49Z")
Ever hear of the Berlin Airlift? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stafford_cripps/32/7167_2.png) [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stafford_Cripps)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countries-have-discontinuous-territory/498966/93 "2009-06-10T08:17:47Z")
no message ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countries-have-discontinuous-territory/498966/94 "2009-06-10T10:35:52Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The UAE doesn’t have any of its own non-contiguous territory, but its territory separates Oman from its non-contiguous bit, the [Mussandam](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musandam) peninsula. Yes it does: [Nahwa](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nahwa) is an enclave inside an Omani enclave that is itself within UAE territory. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countries-have-discontinuous-territory/498966/95 "2009-06-10T14:38:38Z")
> [@Notassmartasithought](#): > > Ever hear of the Berlin Airlift? I was gonna say - unless someone already posted it and I overlooked it - that West Berlin is probably the most prominent example of a discontinuous territory of the past century. World War III almost started over it. ---
**Author:** ![Alive\_At\_Both\_Ends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@Alive\_At\_Both\_Ends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alive_At_Both_Ends)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countries-have-discontinuous-territory/498966/96 "2009-06-10T14:56:49Z")
> [@G. Odoreida](#): > > If you can find a detailed map of British counties from before 1880 you’ll see dozens of bits of counties separated within the same landmass. [Cromartyshire](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cromartyshire) in particular was a clever joke. Of these, Flintshire (as has already been mentioned), Lancashire and Dumbartonshire survived in a discontinuous form until the 1970s when boundaries (and local authority responsibilities) were again re-drawn. One surprising example - There used to be a detached portion of Kent north of the River Thames, before Greater London swallowed it up. I’ve no idea how this came about but it’s interesting to me as I was brought up only a mile or two from it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countries-have-discontinuous-territory/498966.md?page=4)