# Which Country's Life Expectacy Crashed in 1940-1941 **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 7, 2011, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countrys-life-expectacy-crashed-in-1940-1941/566722 "2011-01-07T06:28:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Pierrot\_Le\_Fou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f475e1/32.png) [@Pierrot\_Le\_Fou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pierrot_Le_Fou)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countrys-life-expectacy-crashed-in-1940-1941/566722/1 "2011-01-07T06:28:56Z")
At about two minutes and 10 seconds (1940-1941) into the video linked below, you can see a European Country that has its life expectancy fail like a rock. Which country is it? Did a European country really have a life expectancy below 25 in 1940-1941? [http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog\_thelookout/watch-200-years-of-history-in-5-minutes](http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/watch-200-years-of-history-in-5-minutes) edit - Expectacy = Expectancy ---
**Author:** ![2ply](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/b2d939/32.png) [@2ply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ply)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countrys-life-expectacy-crashed-in-1940-1941/566722/2 "2011-01-07T07:20:11Z")
Poland, maybe? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countrys-life-expectacy-crashed-in-1940-1941/566722/3 "2011-01-07T07:20:45Z")
We did have his little thing called World War 2 which started in 1939. I’m guessing that the country in question is Poland, which suffered badly. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countrys-life-expectacy-crashed-in-1940-1941/566722/4 "2011-01-07T07:44:24Z")
What’s the little green one all the way on the right hand side at the end of the video? Dubai? ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countrys-life-expectacy-crashed-in-1940-1941/566722/5 "2011-01-07T08:53:03Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > What’s the little green one all the way on the right hand side at the end of the video? Dubai? Probably some gulf state, yes. I was surprised to see that along the horizontal = wealth axis, there’s something to the right of Luxembourg, which is usually credited with being the richest (in terms of GDP per capita) place. Looking at [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita), it seems as if that blob on the right could be Qatar. [sub]By the way, Dubai could not be listed in its own right since it’s not a country - I guess what you mean is the United Arab Emirates. \[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countrys-life-expectacy-crashed-in-1940-1941/566722/6 "2011-01-07T09:23:45Z")
The country in the OP question is Ukraine. You can look at the data year by year, and ID any particular country, [here](http://www.gapminder.org/world/#$majorMode=chart$is;shi=t;ly=2003;lb=f;il=t;fs=11;al=30;stl=t;st=t;nsl=t;se=t$wst;tts=C$ts;sp=5.59290322580644;ti=1943$zpv;v=0$inc_x;mmid=XCOORDS;iid=phAwcNAVuyj1jiMAkmq1iMg;by=ind$inc_y;mmid=YCOORDS;iid=phAwcNAVuyj2tPLxKvvnNPA;by=ind$inc_s;uniValue=8.21;iid=phAwcNAVuyj0XOoBL_n5tAQ;by=ind$inc_c;uniValue=255;gid=CATID0;by=grp$map_x;scale=log;dataMin=295;dataMax=79210$map_y;scale=lin;dataMin=19;dataMax=86$map_s;sma=49;smi=2.65$cd;bd=0$inds=i236_t001943,,,,;modified=75). ---
**Author:** ![Pierrot\_Le\_Fou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f475e1/32.png) [@Pierrot\_Le\_Fou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pierrot_Le_Fou)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countrys-life-expectacy-crashed-in-1940-1941/566722/7 "2011-01-07T13:37:39Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > The country in the OP question is Ukraine. You can look at the data year by year, and ID any particular country, [here](http://www.gapminder.org/world/#$majorMode=chart$is;shi=t;ly=2003;lb=f;il=t;fs=11;al=30;stl=t;st=t;nsl=t;se=t$wst;tts=C$ts;sp=5.59290322580644;ti=1943$zpv;v=0$inc_x;mmid=XCOORDS;iid=phAwcNAVuyj1jiMAkmq1iMg;by=ind$inc_y;mmid=YCOORDS;iid=phAwcNAVuyj2tPLxKvvnNPA;by=ind$inc_s;uniValue=8.21;iid=phAwcNAVuyj0XOoBL_n5tAQ;by=ind$inc_c;uniValue=255;gid=CATID0;by=grp$map_x;scale=log;dataMin=295;dataMax=79210$map_y;scale=lin;dataMin=19;dataMax=86$map_s;sma=49;smi=2.65$cd;bd=0$inds=i236_t001943,,,,;modified=75). Thanks. Was Ukraine’s life expectancy really 18 in 1943? ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countrys-life-expectacy-crashed-in-1940-1941/566722/8 "2011-01-07T15:15:20Z")
The strange thing is that it looks like life expectancy plummeted, yet income remained constant. ---
**Author:** ![Francis\_Vaughan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/francis_vaughan/32/3093_2.png) [@Francis\_Vaughan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_Vaughan)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countrys-life-expectacy-crashed-in-1940-1941/566722/9 "2011-01-07T15:17:30Z")
There is a bit of a difference between average age of death and life expectancy. Especially in times of war, when the largest number of deaths are likely to be of soldiers. You get a huge spike of deaths of people in their 20’s. This does not mean that everyone expects to die at that age. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countrys-life-expectacy-crashed-in-1940-1941/566722/10 "2011-01-07T15:59:29Z")
When the Germans swept through the Ukraine, the SS and some army units collected and executed hundreds of thousands of civilians. Hitler referred to this and other areas using the term “[lebensraum](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensraum)” – meaning “living room”. The plan was to liquidate most of the local population and settle ethnic Germans there. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countrys-life-expectacy-crashed-in-1940-1941/566722/11 "2011-01-07T17:05:34Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > The country in the OP question is Ukraine. You can look at the data year by year, and ID any particular country, [here](http://www.gapminder.org/world/#$majorMode=chart$is;shi=t;ly=2003;lb=f;il=t;fs=11;al=30;stl=t;st=t;nsl=t;se=t$wst;tts=C$ts;sp=5.59290322580644;ti=1943$zpv;v=0$inc_x;mmid=XCOORDS;iid=phAwcNAVuyj1jiMAkmq1iMg;by=ind$inc_y;mmid=YCOORDS;iid=phAwcNAVuyj2tPLxKvvnNPA;by=ind$inc_s;uniValue=8.21;iid=phAwcNAVuyj0XOoBL_n5tAQ;by=ind$inc_c;uniValue=255;gid=CATID0;by=grp$map_x;scale=log;dataMin=295;dataMax=79210$map_y;scale=lin;dataMin=19;dataMax=86$map_s;sma=49;smi=2.65$cd;bd=0$inds=i236_t001943,,,,;modified=75). That plot is fascinating. By tracking countries you can pick up the potato famine in Ireland. Russia collectivization in 1933 causes an even bigger drop in life span than Ukraine had. Japan and Germany do a little loops during and after WW2. Qatar actually leaves the screen to the right during the 70’s during the oil crisis. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countrys-life-expectacy-crashed-in-1940-1941/566722/12 "2011-01-07T17:28:39Z")
You can also select other criteria for both the x and y axes and track all kinds of stuff over time, though a lot of the data doesn’t begin until 1950, and some later than that. I wonder if the formation of the UN had something to do with that, as it started collating and reporting all kinds of data from its member states? ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countrys-life-expectacy-crashed-in-1940-1941/566722/13 "2011-01-07T23:53:27Z")
I wondered the same thing myself when I watched that show. Though I didn’t see the Y axis started at 20 years or so, so I was very confused as I thought it must have a negative life expectancy in order to fall below the origin, which didn’t make much sense 🙂 I would like to see the numbers that drove that particular blip. I agree Poland is the most like candidate, I’ve heard figures along the lines of 1/6 of the population perishing during WW2. Though to me that doesn’t quite seem enough to trigger that dramatic a drop. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countrys-life-expectacy-crashed-in-1940-1941/566722/14 "2011-01-08T00:06:25Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > The country in the OP question is Ukraine. You can look at the data year by year, and ID any particular country, [here](http://www.gapminder.org/world/#$majorMode=chart$is;shi=t;ly=2003;lb=f;il=t;fs=11;al=30;stl=t;st=t;nsl=t;se=t$wst;tts=C$ts;sp=5.59290322580644;ti=1943$zpv;v=0$inc_x;mmid=XCOORDS;iid=phAwcNAVuyj1jiMAkmq1iMg;by=ind$inc_y;mmid=YCOORDS;iid=phAwcNAVuyj2tPLxKvvnNPA;by=ind$inc_s;uniValue=8.21;iid=phAwcNAVuyj0XOoBL_n5tAQ;by=ind$inc_c;uniValue=255;gid=CATID0;by=grp$map_x;scale=log;dataMin=295;dataMax=79210$map_y;scale=lin;dataMin=19;dataMax=86$map_s;sma=49;smi=2.65$cd;bd=0$inds=i236_t001943,,,,;modified=75). Ah yes, that makes more sense than Poland, I stand corrected. Though in the data from the TV show life expectancy actually seems to drop below 18 ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countrys-life-expectacy-crashed-in-1940-1941/566722/15 "2011-01-08T00:18:06Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > Ah yes, that makes more sense than Poland, I stand corrected. > > Though in the data from the TV show life expectancy actually seems to drop below 18 Yes because the Germans steamrollered through the country and then began an extermination campaign against the populace. Not to mention some other side effects of the war, like disease, and destruction of the crop and resulting famine. And then the Russians steamrollered back through in the other directions. IIRC both countries pursued a scorched earth policy during their retreats in an attempt to leave nothing behind useful to their enemy, including food supplies and livestock. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countrys-life-expectacy-crashed-in-1940-1941/566722/16 "2011-01-08T01:08:12Z")
Slightly off topic but we’ve had the answer now. Using the same tool but with different data for the axis, look at the graph for CO2 emissions: www.bit.ly/gt9a4H Wow. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countrys-life-expectacy-crashed-in-1940-1941/566722/17 "2011-01-08T01:34:24Z")
You can look at the data underlying any graph by clicking on the small box at the bottom right of the Y axis. Where that data comes from, I’m not so sure. ---
**Author:** ![sjc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e5b9ba/32.png) [@sjc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sjc)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2011, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countrys-life-expectacy-crashed-in-1940-1941/566722/18 "2011-01-09T05:27:01Z")
I noticed a big dip by China which coincided with the late '50s/early '60s. It’s quite noticeable. Must have been the great famine. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2011, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countrys-life-expectacy-crashed-in-1940-1941/566722/19 "2011-01-09T05:37:49Z")
Iceland is the strangest at all. It takes 3 separate dips down to practically zero during the 19th century. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2011, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countrys-life-expectacy-crashed-in-1940-1941/566722/20 "2011-01-09T08:01:46Z")
> [@sjc](#): > > I noticed a big dip by China which coincided with the late '50s/early '60s. It’s quite noticeable. Must have been the great famine. That was the Great Leap Forward, Mao’s plan to jump-start China’s economy and put it on the fast track to becoming a modern world power. It did indeed lead to massive famines, due to agricultural collectivization, and its failure lead to the Cultural Revolution, which was an old-fashioned “beat your neighbor’s brains out for being reactionary” bloodletting. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-countrys-life-expectacy-crashed-in-1940-1941/566722.md?page=2)