Which Democratic candidates support the Space Initiative?

[Kimstu]

SS: Man, it’s a real stretch to spin a Mars program into a Haliburton [sic] conspiracy, based on one article years ago where a scientist who works for Haliburton points out that their expertise in drilling could be spun into Mars contracts […] But the word Haliburton is like red meat to those on the left. All you have to do is mention it and their teeth start to gnash.

:rolleyes: Piffle, Sam. I’m not “gnashing my teeth” or postulating a “conspiracy”, I’m just genuinely and reasonably concerned to know what role the energy industry is playing in the development of this new initiative.

I also think you need to read the quote I gave more carefully: the evidence for the involvement of the energy industry is not limited to a few remarks by a Halliburton scientist speculating on market opportunities. It includes the reports that oil and gas companies are already involved in a “preliminary consortium” to promote development of such technology. Seems to me it’s perfectly fair, given this industry’s close ties to the Administration, to ask whether the Administration is to some extent dancing to their piping in proposing this new space initiative. If your best response to such a reasonable query is to call it a “conspiracy theory”, I’m sorry for you.

As for military purposes, I think that is equally ridiculous. Outside of science fiction, there is no military value in the Moon or Mars, at least not in the forseeable future. If Cheney was shilling for the military, he’d be advocating a new space station with military capability, or cheap access to orbit research so the military could put up more satellites or SDI components.

Again, I think you need to read the quote more carefully. According to the article, USA Today reported that Cheney “persuaded Bush that there could be military benefits” from the new space initiative, which seems to indicate that he doesn’t agree with you that there’s “no military value in the Moon or Mars”. Are you saying that Cheney didn’t know what he was talking about, or what?

[Frank]

@jshore

Personally, I think the most important issue facing us is making sure we don’t screw up the planet we live on too much. (And, I don’t really see trying to establish a presence on other planets as a viable alternative to this.)

Well, sure it will. The more mining (word used to cover all means of extraction and exploitation of raw materials), processing and production we can move into space, the less reason we have to screw up our planet. That’s a very long range view, but I hardly think it’s unreasonable.

[jshore]

@Kimstu

jshore: *Personally, I think the most important issue facing us is making sure we don’t screw up the planet we live on too much. *

Seriously, if you are going to “hold your nose and vote for” Bush even though you avowedly detest him, and if Bush is disproportionately contributing to the screwing-up of the planet, then I don’t see how your “passion” (or at least, the means you take to pursue it) can avoid being in conflict with jshore’s.

Good point. I think I had this concern somewhere in the bowels of my mind but I couldn’t verbalize it.

@This Year's Model

Well, sure it will. The more mining (word used to cover all means of extraction and exploitation of raw materials), processing and production we can move into space, the less reason we have to screw up our planet. That’s a very long range view, but I hardly think it’s unreasonable.

Well, yes, that is so long-range and speculative as to be a rather flimsy idea to base policy on. And, I think we should learn how to manage our own planet and its resources well before we start to screw up other ones. It is not like we don’t have the ability to do better…And, for the price we’d pay for all this Mars stuff, it is not like we wouldn’t have a lot of money to invest in order to do better.