# Which Democrats aren't liberals? (A question for conservatives) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 27, 2004, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-democrats-arent-liberals-a-question-for-conservatives/281833 "2004-12-27T22:25:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-democrats-arent-liberals-a-question-for-conservatives/281833/1 "2004-12-27T22:25:08Z")
In another thread, several conservatives are saying Hillary Clinton could never be elected President because she is a liberal. John Kerry is also identified as an “East Coast Liberal”. In the past elections, we’ve seen conservatives calling Bill Clinton and Al Gore liberals. So here’s my question for all the conservatives reading this: are there any major figures in the Democratic party that you would not characterize as being a liberal? I don’t mean this as a shot, but I’ve heard conservatives calling John McCain a liberal so I have to wonder where the line has been set. Three simple rules: 1 - Major Democrats only. Nobody below the level of Governor/Congressman. 2 - Living politicians only. It’s easy to talk nice about Truman or JFK now that they’re no longer a threat. 3 - Zell Miller doesn’t count. The stakes? If you’re unable to identify any members of the Democratic party who aren’t liberals, you have to stop complaining about how the Democrats never nominate anyone except liberals. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-democrats-arent-liberals-a-question-for-conservatives/281833/2 "2004-12-27T22:33:24Z")
Well, actually I DON’T think Bill Clinton was a liberal…at least not at the end of his term. I also don’t think Hillary is a liberal per se…though she is all over the board on various issues. That said, one guy I would have voted for who is most certainly not a liberal is Joe Lieberman. I see him as a solid centrist Democrat who I think would have given Bush a real run for his money, pulling in much of the undecided/independant vote (though, admittedly, losing the radical left…not much of a loss IMHO, but perhaps others see the numbers differently). -XT ---
**Author:** ![PinkMarabou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ec9cab/32.png) [@PinkMarabou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PinkMarabou)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-democrats-arent-liberals-a-question-for-conservatives/281833/3 "2004-12-27T23:02:55Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > That said, one guy I would have voted for who is most certainly not a liberal is Joe Lieberman. I see him as a solid centrist Democrat who I think would have given Bush a real run for his money Do you REMEMBER the 2000 election? IMHO Gore would have had a better chance had Leiberman not been his running mate. BORRRRRIIIINNNG! > [@xtisme](#): > > pulling in much of the undecided/independant vote (though, admittedly, losing the radical left…not much of a loss IMHO, but perhaps others see the numbers differently). > > -XT :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Well, we all have seen in this past election how the “radical” sides really DO make a difference. For exmple: “Values Voters”, “the Christian Right”, “Security Moms”, those who watch Fox News. I could go on. I have yet to see a major contender liberal enough for me though. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-democrats-arent-liberals-a-question-for-conservatives/281833/4 "2004-12-28T02:30:36Z")
Ben Nelson of Nebraska’s pretty palatable. Ken Lucas, Kentucky Congressman, is a fine moderate. Link Davis of Tennessee. Gene Taylor of Mississippi. Chris John of Lousiana. Chuck Stenholm of Texas. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-democrats-arent-liberals-a-question-for-conservatives/281833/5 "2004-12-28T03:12:55Z")
Out of curiosity, why Doesn’t Zell Miller count? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-democrats-arent-liberals-a-question-for-conservatives/281833/6 "2004-12-28T03:21:25Z")
Because he’s a Republican. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-democrats-arent-liberals-a-question-for-conservatives/281833/7 "2004-12-28T03:25:12Z")
John Breaux is the most principled centrist I’ve seen. Robert Byrd is actually pretty conservative on a lot of issues, especially things like school prayer, homosexuality, and stuff like that. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-democrats-arent-liberals-a-question-for-conservatives/281833/8 "2004-12-28T03:39:58Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Because he’s a Republican. No, he’s not. The most blatantly obvious conservative Democrat is disqualified because…? It seems the OP just doesn’t want to deal with the immediately obvious example that sort of ruins his ‘point’. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-democrats-arent-liberals-a-question-for-conservatives/281833/9 "2004-12-28T03:50:13Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > No, he’s not. The most blatantly obvious conservative Democrat is disqualified because…? It seems the OP just doesn’t want to deal with the immediately obvious example that sort of ruins his ‘point’. Because Zell Miller lists himself and considers himself a Democrat but seems always to act in conjunction with the more conservative Republicans, voting with them, espousing the same views as them, etc.? In other words, he is excluded because despite his professed party allegiance, he seems to be functioning as a conservative Republican. Other than Zell, are there any Dixiecrats left, just out of curiosity? There were a number of very conservative Democrats in the southern wing of the party when I was growing up; some took their lead from Strom Thurmond and Jesse Helms and jumped ship to the Republicans – but a few held to the standard populist Democratic tradition and remained Democrat. I wonder if any are still around. BTW, North Carolina is, well, _liberally_ supplied with _moderate_ Democrats calculated to make **rjung** see red in their stands on issues, but nowhere as pithecanthropine as the typical southern Republican. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-democrats-arent-liberals-a-question-for-conservatives/281833/10 "2004-12-28T04:07:30Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Because Zell Miller lists himself and considers himself a Democrat but seems always to act in conjunction with the more conservative Republicans, voting with them, espousing the same views as them, etc.? Is his suffix a -D or a -R? He’s a Democrat. Pure and simple. That it burns liberal ass that he supported Bush has nothing to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-democrats-arent-liberals-a-question-for-conservatives/281833/11 "2004-12-28T04:09:38Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Because Zell Miller lists himself and considers himself a Democrat but seems always to act in conjunction with the more conservative Republicans, voting with them, espousing the same views as them, etc.? > > In other words, he is excluded because despite his professed party allegiance, he seems to be functioning as a conservative Republican. How is a conservative Republican different than a conservative Democrat? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-democrats-arent-liberals-a-question-for-conservatives/281833/12 "2004-12-28T04:37:58Z")
Thank you all for helping us assemble our Purge and Purification List! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-democrats-arent-liberals-a-question-for-conservatives/281833/13 "2004-12-28T04:39:14Z")
Errrmmm . . . that **was** the point of the OP wasn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-democrats-arent-liberals-a-question-for-conservatives/281833/14 "2004-12-28T04:41:08Z")
I think it would actually be difficult to find more than a handful of real liberals in the Democrat party. What passes for “left” in the US is still right of center for the rest of the world. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-democrats-arent-liberals-a-question-for-conservatives/281833/15 "2004-12-28T04:46:51Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I think it would actually be difficult to find more than a handful of real liberals in the Democrat party. What passes for “left” in the US is still right of center for the rest of the world. Then maybe it would make more sense to assemble a list of prominent “real liberals” – who just might, under the right circumstances, be recruited to walk out of the Dems and lead the formation of a new party! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-democrats-arent-liberals-a-question-for-conservatives/281833/16 "2004-12-28T05:11:47Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I think it would actually be difficult to find more than a handful of real liberals in the Democrat party. What passes for “left” in the US is still right of center for the rest of the world. Yep. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-democrats-arent-liberals-a-question-for-conservatives/281833/17 "2004-12-28T06:02:56Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Ben Nelson of Nebraska’s pretty palatable. > > Ken Lucas, Kentucky Congressman, is a fine moderate. > > Link Davis of Tennessee. > > Gene Taylor of Mississippi. > > Chris John of Lousiana. > > Chuck Stenholm of Texas. Evan Bayh (D-IN) also comes to mind. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-democrats-arent-liberals-a-question-for-conservatives/281833/18 "2004-12-28T14:57:58Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I think it would actually be difficult to find more than a handful of real liberals in the Democrat party. What passes for “left” in the US is still right of center for the rest of the world. What passes for a “cold” day here in New England is actually very warm compared with the climate on Pluto. So what? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-democrats-arent-liberals-a-question-for-conservatives/281833/19 "2004-12-28T15:29:16Z")
> [@DtC](#): > > I think it would actually be difficult to find more than a handful of real liberals in the Democrat party. What passes for “left” in the US is still right of center for the rest of the world. And so? By OUR political spectrum the left is the left, the center is the center and the right is the right. Who gives a shit what it is compared to another country who has their own spectrum?? Basically, to use the old standby cliche…if you don’t like our political spectrum and would prefer another, by all means go somewhere where the spectrum is more to your taste. To rail at the fact that the US political spectrum is skewed in comparison to, say, Europes is silly…we have ours, they have theirs. Their citizens like the way their is (for the most part)…and so do ours. Nuff said. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-democrats-arent-liberals-a-question-for-conservatives/281833/20 "2004-12-28T16:00:58Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > What passes for a “cold” day here in New England is actually very warm compared with the climate on Pluto. So what? So if you are in a situation where considering the weather of the entire solar system is important, leaving out Pluto’s weather is a bad idea. Similarly, if you live on a planet where societies are intimately interconnected, it’s a bad idea to look only at the politics of your own country. Daniel [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-democrats-arent-liberals-a-question-for-conservatives/281833.md?page=2)