# Which Democrats aren't liberals? (A question for conservatives) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 27, 2004, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-democrats-arent-liberals-a-question-for-conservatives/281833 "2004-12-27T22:25:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-democrats-arent-liberals-a-question-for-conservatives/281833/81 "2004-12-29T05:04:14Z")
I’m actually kind of fond, in a very lukewarm way, of Chuck Schumer, the senior senator from NY. But I don’t think he wants a party leadership position. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-democrats-arent-liberals-a-question-for-conservatives/281833/82 "2004-12-29T05:12:45Z")
> [@](#): > > I understand all the words, but together they don’t lead me to comprehension. If they’re “all liberals” wouldn’t that mean people were correct to complain that only liberals were nominated? It seems that if we can come up with examples of non-liberal democrats we’d be disproving the cry of “only liberals are nominated” far more than the other way around. No, if someone is saying that the Democrats are wrong for nominating only liberal candidates and is also saying that all Democrats are liberals, they’re setting an impossible standard. If every Democrat was a liberal, then the Democrats would have no choice except to nominate a liberal, in which case it would be wrong to denounce them for doing something they had no choice over. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-democrats-arent-liberals-a-question-for-conservatives/281833/83 "2004-12-29T05:43:43Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > No, no, no. There is no significant left wing in the leadership of our two major parties or among our elected officials. There **is** a left wing in the **electorate,** that is, the people at large, although its numbers are hard to estimate. Where do you think Howard Dean’s support came from? And Nader’s support in 2000? > > Leftists don’t get elected, in part, because of our single-member-district, winner-take-all political system which squeezes out third-party alternatives (left, right and otherwise) and forces the major parties to follow a center-seeking electoral strategy. But the hard-left vote is definitely **there** – and extremely frustrated, having to make choices like that between throwing their votes away on Nader or helping a prowar “liberal” like Kerry get elected. You’re correct. I’m embarrassed that I misused a word like that. I know better. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-democrats-arent-liberals-a-question-for-conservatives/281833/84 "2004-12-29T06:20:58Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > People need to get some perspective and use our own political base line when comparing political systems (or news agencies for that matter)…not some other country. It can be very valuable to consider the political spectrums of societies far older than our own. The Europeans have been living together a lot longer than we have and may have learned a thing or two about getting along together and effectively governing a society. I don’t think it’s random chance or something in the drinking water that accounts for Europeans being a lot more liberal than the US. Rather, it is their maturity as a society. Look to Europe to see where we will be politically in a few hundred years. There might be some civil wars or revolutions that occur between now and then that guide us that direction (Og knows we won’t get there the easy way-- by broadening people’s horizons and educating them so that among other things, they don’t meddle in other people’s lives based on ancient middle-eastern legends), but that’s where we are headed. If only we could leave behind those who would willfully choose to remain in the dark and move forward that much more quickly! And to pre-emptively avoid any tired old chestnuts: no, I can’t move there… they won’t have me. No green card, you know. I’d prefer that my country, which I love very much, get “there” all together. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-democrats-arent-liberals-a-question-for-conservatives/281833/85 "2004-12-29T06:59:17Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Without getting into the exact percentages of folks in Europe (your utopia) who believe quite sincerely that it was really the US government that bombed the WTC and the Pentagon on 9/11 (here’s a hint…its quite a number of them) With this quote you are suggesting that a large number of Europeans believe that the US govenment bombed the WTC and Pentagon on 9/11. When called on this, you replied you didn’t have a cite (fair enough-- it happens) but then you said this: > [@](#): > > Basically, if I’m recalling correctly, there was a poll about half a year after 9/11 (either just before or during Afghanistan…again if I’m remembering correctly) that showed that something like 51% in Europe (I think it was something like 7 or 8 countries combined) **felt the US government was directly responsible for 9/11** …and in Germany (again, if memory serves) it was something like 60+%. (bolding mine) Saying the US gov’t is _responsible_ for 9/11 is very, very different than saying that the US gov’t _bombed_ the WTC and Pentagon. I recognize those percentages you mention and I think your memory of the numbers is quite good. But if I remember correctly, the opinion presented by 51% of Europeans and 60% of Germans was that the _policies_ of the USA contributed to a massive hatred towards the USA and therefore helped “cause” the attack on 9/11. Very different. What you first implied was quite misleading and way off-base. I hope it was an honest mistake. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-democrats-arent-liberals-a-question-for-conservatives/281833.md?page=4)