# Which Die Hard movie is the best? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 20, 2018, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-die-hard-movie-is-the-best/818276 "2018-07-20T15:31:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lancia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lancia/32/17174_2.png) [@Lancia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lancia)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-die-hard-movie-is-the-best/818276/21 "2018-07-20T17:19:20Z")
BTW we can discuss movie sequels in general [here.](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=859071) ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-die-hard-movie-is-the-best/818276/22 "2018-07-20T17:58:22Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > I consider that an installment in a series, which was planned from the beginning, rather than a sequel. But it wasn’t. Yeah, I know Lucas says he had it all planned out. He did not. As to “Die Hard” so far the votes are 26 for the original, 2 for Vengeance, and nothing for the rest, and that is absolutely the correct ratio. The reason that is is because the movies really don’t even need to be about the same guy. What makes Die Hard so thoroughly awesome is, first and foremost, John McClane. But he didn’t really need to be in Die Hard II. Could have been any action hero. Same with the fourth and fifth ones. Only Vengeance really worked in part because it was John McClane again. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-die-hard-movie-is-the-best/818276/23 "2018-07-20T18:06:35Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > But it wasn’t. > > Yeah, I know Lucas says he had it all planned out. He did not. > As to “Die Hard” so far the votes are 26 for the original, 2 for Vengeance, and nothing for the rest, and that is absolutely the correct ratio. > > The reason that is is because the movies really don’t even need to be about the same guy. What makes Die Hard so thoroughly awesome is, first and foremost, John McClane. But he didn’t really need to be in Die Hard II. Could have been any action hero. Same with the fourth and fifth ones. Only Vengeance really worked in part because it was John McClane again. In fact I think Die Hard II wasn’t originally written for John McClane at all. It is roughly based on a book about a different NYPD detective. There is an earlier John McClane related movie that starred Sinatra I believe. The detective has a different name. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-die-hard-movie-is-the-best/818276/24 "2018-07-20T18:09:07Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > But it wasn’t. > > Yeah, I know Lucas says he had it all planned out. He did not. Nor did Alec Guiness plan or particularly want to play Obi-Wan Kenobi again, according to what I’ve read. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-die-hard-movie-is-the-best/818276/25 "2018-07-20T18:10:08Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > In fact I think Die Hard II wasn’t originally written for John McClane at all. It is roughly based on a book about a different NYPD detective. There is an earlier John McClane related movie that starred Sinatra I believe. The detective has a different name. Tony Rome? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-die-hard-movie-is-the-best/818276/26 "2018-07-20T18:17:05Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Tony Rome? No, [I looked it up to be clear](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Detective_(1968_film)): > [@wiki](#): > > The Detective is a 1968 color [neo-noir](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-noir) [crime film](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_film) in [Panavision](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panavision) directed by [Gordon Douglas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Douglas_(director)), produced by [Aaron Rosenberg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Rosenberg) and starring [Frank Sinatra](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Sinatra), based on the 1966 [novel of the same name](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Detective_(novel)) by [Roderick Thorp](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roderick_Thorp) > … > In 1979 Roderick Thorp wrote a sequel to _The Detective_ called _[Nothing Lasts Forever](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nothing_Lasts_Forever_(1979_novel))_, in which Leland is trapped in a Klaxon Oil Corporation skyscraper after it is taken by German terrorists and must rescue his daughter and grandchildren. The novel was adapted into the 1988 [20th Century Fox](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/20th_Century_Fox) film _[Die Hard](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_Hard)_, in which Joe Leland’s name was changed to [John McClane](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McClane), the object of his heroism was changed from his daughter to his wife, and Klaxon became the Nakatomi Corporation. Fox was contractually obligated to offer Sinatra the lead role, but he promptly turned it down as he would have been more than 70 years old when filming. Coincidentally, [Lloyd Bochner’s](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lloyd_Bochner) son [Hart](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hart_Bochner) was also featured in _Die Hard_. The film launched a film franchise that continues into the 2010s. ---
**Author:** ![Rhiannon8404](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhiannon8404/32/17929_2.png) [@Rhiannon8404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhiannon8404)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-die-hard-movie-is-the-best/818276/27 "2018-07-20T18:18:04Z")
As far as I’m concerned there is only one “Die Hard movie”. That would be, of course, _Die Hard_. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-die-hard-movie-is-the-best/818276/28 "2018-07-20T18:36:37Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > The one with SLJ of course. Normally, that would be correct. But there’s an exception to the SLJ rule: > [@kunilou](#): > > Two words: Alan Rickman ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-die-hard-movie-is-the-best/818276/29 "2018-07-20T18:54:51Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > I can’t think of a movie, offhand, where a sequel was better than the first. Aliens Mad Max Momma Mia ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-die-hard-movie-is-the-best/818276/30 "2018-07-20T19:54:21Z")
> [@Rhiannon8404](#): > > As far as I’m concerned there is only one “Die Hard movie”. That would be, of course, _Die Hard_. And it’s a Christmas movie. ---
**Author:** ![Rhiannon8404](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhiannon8404/32/17929_2.png) [@Rhiannon8404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhiannon8404)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-die-hard-movie-is-the-best/818276/31 "2018-07-20T21:50:45Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > And it’s a Christmas movie. Damn straight. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-die-hard-movie-is-the-best/818276/32 "2018-07-20T22:11:13Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > I can’t think of a movie, offhand, where a sequel was better than the first. I daresay the following sequels were better than their predecessors: _Terminator 2 Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan Aliens_ That said, I’ve only ever seen the first three _Die Hard_ movies and the second one was god-awful. While I like Samuel L., he couldn’t elevate #3 to the point where it could match the original. ---
**Author:** ![Kennedy1960](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ccd318/32.png) [@Kennedy1960](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kennedy1960)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-die-hard-movie-is-the-best/818276/33 "2018-07-20T22:20:16Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I daresay the following sequels were better than their predecessors: > > _Terminator 2 > Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan > Aliens_ > That said, I’ve only ever seen the first three _Die Hard_ movies and the second one was god-awful. While I like Samuel L., he couldn’t elevate #3 to the point where it could match the original. The thing with the three sequels you mentioned is all three are very different films, arguably in part in different genres, than the films they succeeded. Terminator 2 is a big budget summer action film complete with cheesy one liners, humor, and a broad sense of scope whereas T1 is a low budget slasher film, except that instead of a knife wielding assassin like Michael Myers, the killer is a cyborg from the future. Two totally different films in both substance and style, and if T2 was released today it would probably be panned for the humor, as being too campy. Wrath of Khan is a revenge story for one, and secondly, is primarily an action sci fi film whereas TMP is a sci fi epic, basically Trek’s answer to 2001. Aliens is very similar to T2 in that it is also an action film following from what is essentially a slasher horror movie, except Alien is a slash film set in space with an alien as the killer. It is hard to argue which is really “better” since really in all three cases, it’s like comparing apples to oranges. Maybe that is why those sequels worked? By being so radically different? I don’t know. But no Die Hard film really diverts from the formula setup in the first film except for With a Vengeance. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-die-hard-movie-is-the-best/818276/34 "2018-07-20T23:26:11Z")
> [@Kennedy1960](#): > > It is hard to argue which is really “better” since really in all three cases, it’s like comparing apples to oranges. I don’t find it personally difficult to say three especially succulent oranges deivered more satisfying snacking experiences than two apples that were above-average and one that was bland and boring while trying to be all cosmic and shit. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-die-hard-movie-is-the-best/818276/35 "2018-07-20T23:40:03Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > As to the OP, how is this even a question? 😕 I mean, DUH! > [@Kennedy1960](#): > > … and if T2 was released today it would probably be panned for the humor, as being too campy. Note that I am a child of the '60s/'70s and cannot imagine something “too campy.” 😉 Camp and kitsch were what I lived and breathed. And snark, though we lacked the word. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-die-hard-movie-is-the-best/818276/36 "2018-07-20T23:55:59Z")
Buckle up, I’m “that guy” in this situation. I liked Die Hard 4 the most. Yes, \*that \*one. Here, I’ll rank the series for you. 1. Die Hard 4 - I thought this was one of the best “big gap” sequels I’ve seen. I liked almost everything about it, especially since they released the proper R-rated cut on DVD. 2. Die Hard - Obviously, a great movie. I have no issue with people liking this one more than 4. It’s cool. 3. Die Hard With a Vengeance - I love this one, too. Really, really excellent. BIG GAP: 1. Die Hard 2 - totally mediocre and kind of a snooze. Not incompetent, not horrible. Just boring. HUGE GIGANTIC GAP 1. Die Hard 5 - Should not have been released. An incomprehensible, incomplete movie. I will never re-watch it and while it isn’t as bad as Highlander 2, it is about as bad as Phantom Menace. OK, maybe a bit better than Phantom Menace, but a truly terrible sequel. I could tell during promotion that Bruce Willis hated it, too. It was a bad experience for everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Anamorphic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/anamorphic/32/3057_2.png) [@Anamorphic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anamorphic)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-die-hard-movie-is-the-best/818276/37 "2018-07-21T15:04:15Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Whoever voted for Vengeance should be banned. Not just from the board, from the planet. Completely disagree. The first one is clearly the best of the series, but Vengeance is a fine sequel, a well-made, fun film that is eminently rewatchable. ---
**Author:** ![2nd\_Law](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/f475e1/32.png) [@2nd\_Law](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2nd_Law)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-die-hard-movie-is-the-best/818276/38 "2018-07-21T17:26:53Z")
Oops – clicked the wrong button in the poll. You can guess which one. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-die-hard-movie-is-the-best/818276.md?page=1)