# Which entertainer's legacy would have benefited most from an early death? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 9, 2013, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-entertainers-legacy-would-have-benefited-most-from-an-early-death/646601 "2013-01-09T08:06:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-entertainers-legacy-would-have-benefited-most-from-an-early-death/646601/81 "2015-08-25T01:18:03Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Woody Allen right after Love and Death. You think removing ANNIE HALL makes him _more_ memorable? ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-entertainers-legacy-would-have-benefited-most-from-an-early-death/646601/82 "2015-08-25T02:41:52Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > You think removing ANNIE HALL makes him _more_ memorable? I know it was best picture. It was good. But in the arc of comedy it is the beginning of his relevance as an “artist” and so it is the end of his relevance as a comic genius. My feeling is he does not have artistic chops. I was a big fan. I actually own the original art to the first day of his comic strip. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-entertainers-legacy-would-have-benefited-most-from-an-early-death/646601/83 "2015-08-25T03:21:05Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > You think removing ANNIE HALL makes him _more_ memorable? Or _Crimes and Misdemeanors_, the _real_ best film of 1989. Or _Mighty Aphrodite_. Or _Midnight in Paris_. Etc. ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-entertainers-legacy-would-have-benefited-most-from-an-early-death/646601/84 "2015-08-25T14:43:12Z")
I think people talking about an early death for the likes of Dylan are misreading the thread. As an earlier poster pointed out, Dylan’s spotty releases in the '80s and '90s really haven’t dented his reputation at all; _Rolling Stone_ just named him the best songwriter of all time. (Yeah, it’s _Rolling Stone,_ but still.) Dylan’s 2006 album _Modern Times_ debuted at #1 (his first chart-topper in thirty years), so I’d say his rep managed to survive _Saved_ pretty well. Besides, I wouldn’t want to be without _Love and Theft_, his best (IMO) since _Blood on the Tracks_. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-entertainers-legacy-would-have-benefited-most-from-an-early-death/646601/85 "2015-08-25T16:41:39Z")
Bob Dylan up to ca. 1966 fascinates the heck out of me. It’s not just about the music. It’s about the charisma and the personality. And something else, that I’m having a hard time defining. He’s like a movie character trespassing on reality. Don’t agree? Go watch _Dont Look Back_. (Actually, just go watch _Dont Look Back_, period. It’s the best movie ever.) Bob Dylan including his later career is human, all too human. Yeah, I know, that’s a high standard to hold someone to. It’s probably not fair to knock someone for being human. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-entertainers-legacy-would-have-benefited-most-from-an-early-death/646601/86 "2015-08-25T16:54:02Z")
> [@River\_Hippie](#): > > Peter Frampton is still a monster on guitar. I have a fairly recent live DVD of his (granted, it is heavy on his greatest hits) but he can still rip on guitar and sing well enough. A friend of mine saw him perform a month or so ago. Said it was a great show! ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-entertainers-legacy-would-have-benefited-most-from-an-early-death/646601/87 "2015-08-25T18:04:02Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > _Beautiful Day_ and _Walk On_ are their only notable songs since the late 90s. So _no_, you’re not dreaming. Those songs are both on the _All That You Can’t Leave Behind_ album, which is a terrific album from one end to the other. You can kill 'em off after that if you must. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-entertainers-legacy-would-have-benefited-most-from-an-early-death/646601/88 "2015-08-25T18:11:54Z")
> [@Nonsuch](#): > > Besides, I wouldn’t want to be without _Love and Theft_, his best (IMO) since _Blood on the Tracks_. The problem is, that’s a bit like saying “the best team in AAA ball” or some such. I register that as “better than _Desire_,” since that’s the only good album he had for some time afterwards, since _Street Lega_l is pretty weak, and then you get his Jesus-freak albums, and the less said about them, the better. Better than _Desire_ is pretty good actually, but that came out just shy of 40 years ago, and if one album better than _Desire_ is the best he’s got to show for the past four decades, that isn’t saying much. ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-entertainers-legacy-would-have-benefited-most-from-an-early-death/646601/89 "2015-08-25T21:29:52Z")
The point is that, in my view, Dylan did actually come back within striking distance of his creative peak — a high plateau indeed — at a time when many people were marveling that he was even still alive. The fact that the 80s and 90s weren’t all that good for him (excepting _Infidels_ and _Oh Mercy,_ two very good records) isn’t really relevant; if that’s how long it took him to come back around to making _Time Out of Mind, Love and Theft, Modern Times_ and _Tempest_, then I’m glad he lived long enough to do it. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-entertainers-legacy-would-have-benefited-most-from-an-early-death/646601/90 "2015-08-25T22:24:52Z")
> [@Nonsuch](#): > > I think people talking about an early death for the likes of Dylan are misreading the thread. As an earlier poster pointed out, Dylan’s spotty releases in the '80s and '90s really haven’t dented his reputation at all; _Rolling Stone_ just named him the best songwriter of all time. (Yeah, it’s _Rolling Stone,_ but still.) Dylan’s 2006 album _Modern Times_ debuted at #1 (his first chart-topper in thirty years), so I’d say his rep managed to survive _Saved_ pretty well. > > Besides, I wouldn’t want to be without _Love and Theft_, his best (IMO) since _Blood on the Tracks_. I don’t think they are misreading the OP at all. If Dylan had died in 1967 he would have been forever known as the oracle of the modern age; a cross between Arthur Rimbaud, Elvis Presley, James Dean, and Thomas Paine. The arguments towards Blood on the tracks and later lose the idea, and dilute the impact. It’s not as good a case then. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-entertainers-legacy-would-have-benefited-most-from-an-early-death/646601/91 "2015-08-25T22:30:06Z")
If Joni Mitchell had died right after “Hejira”: She would be widely seen as being up there with Lennon McCartney, Brian Wilson, Neil Young. She is anyway, but there is a lot of sexism in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Small\_Hen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ad7895/32.png) [@Small\_Hen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Small_Hen)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-entertainers-legacy-would-have-benefited-most-from-an-early-death/646601/92 "2015-08-27T19:03:52Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Speaking of which, I was going to ask when Dustin Hoffman last had a decent film but checking the interweb it looks like he’s had some recent award nominations (for _Last Chance Harvey_ and _Barney’s Version_) so I guess he’s not done yet. Okay, but the thing is, Dustin Hoffman is basically five to ten years past the age when most people in this country have retired all together, so if he wants to sit around and take some less demanding roles for golden years, well, the man’s already earned the lifetime achievement award. I hardly think he needs to feel deep shame for Kung Fu Panda. And I don’t think we can lay the blame of the Fockers series at his feet. No one walked away from that completely clean. I think Tom Cruise stared in what was easily one of the best sci fi movies of the last five years just last summer. Also, Tropic Thunder. Cuba Gooding Jr dying after Jerry McGuire might have given him some kind “what could have been” aura, but I really don’t think so. He was good, but it wasn’t all _that_ memorable a role. He wasn’t Heath Ledger in Brokeback or Dark Knight. I’m not saying there’s not some truth to this exercise, though, morbid as it might be. Like, you guys remember how tragic it was when Jon Voigt got hit by that bus just after winning the oscar for Coming Home and was never in any movies where he was vomited up by a giant snake, or acting opposite talking babies geniuses, or karate fighting CGI dogs? And also never turned into a crazy person? ---
**Author:** ![Small\_Hen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ad7895/32.png) [@Small\_Hen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Small_Hen)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-entertainers-legacy-would-have-benefited-most-from-an-early-death/646601/93 "2015-08-27T19:11:58Z")
Somehow completely missed that this thread had a second page and was a zombie. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-entertainers-legacy-would-have-benefited-most-from-an-early-death/646601/94 "2015-08-27T23:39:25Z")
So long as the thread’s back up and running, though: John Travolta. You could kill him off right after SATURDAY NIGHT FEVER gave way to GREASE and leave everybody asking _“what if?”_ – or you could kill him off right after PULP FICTION left everybody saying _“yeah, that’s a hell of a comeback, but won’t he collapse again?”_ By now, of course, we know the answer is _“yup.”_ But if he dies after carrying GET SHORTY and FACE/OFF and so on – just so long as it’s _before_ BATTLEFIELD EARTH is the thing, so maybe right _after_ that eerily accurate impression of Bill Clinton in PRIMARY COLORS – then I figure everybody says _“y’know, he sure learned his lesson, because he used that second chance to do quality work and display talents we didn’t know he had; I wonder what he would’ve done next?”_ ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2015, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-entertainers-legacy-would-have-benefited-most-from-an-early-death/646601/95 "2015-08-30T07:01:27Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > (This zombie still has some life in it.) > > R.E.M. after Automatic for the People. As a devoted fan of the band for 30 years or so, I have to say … you might be on target, to be honest. I was going to argue for setting the death point at _New Adventures_, but that would have given the world at least one, and probably two, albums’ worth of proof that they had crested as high as they ever would, which provides WAY too much closure to be an effective legacy-maker. Yeah, knocking them off with the strains of “Everybody Hurts” fresh in our minds would have been quite the stunner. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2015, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-entertainers-legacy-would-have-benefited-most-from-an-early-death/646601/96 "2015-08-30T07:44:25Z")
If Ben Elton had died in 1990 we wouldn’t have got _Popcorn_, but everybody would be wondering how he would have topped _Blackadder_ and _The Young Ones_ ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2015, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-entertainers-legacy-would-have-benefited-most-from-an-early-death/646601/97 "2015-08-30T10:47:51Z")
This past year, Keanu Reeves had so big a hit with JOHN WICK that a sequel is now apparently in the works – and before that, he managed an even bigger hit as the star of THE DAY THE EARTH STOOD STILL – and before those #1-at-the-box-office showings, he was top-billed in the impressively profitable THE LAKE HOUSE opposite Sandra Bullock, which of course reminded everyone of when he was top-billed opposite Bullock in the even-more-impressively-profitable SPEED; and in _between_ movies with Bullock, the MATRIX franchise raked in, y’know, a billion-and-a-half. And so on. And he’s headlined a lot of other movies that likewise grossed well over double their budgets: he’s Johnny Mnemonic, he’s John Constantine, he’s top-billed with an Oscar winner in the supporting role, he’s top-billed with a two-time Oscar winner in the supporting role – he’s an iconic movie star, is what I’m saying. So imagine his movie-star career stays exactly the same – except Alex Winter dies right after they play BILL AND TED, and we wonder what _he’d_ have done since. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2015, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-entertainers-legacy-would-have-benefited-most-from-an-early-death/646601/98 "2015-08-30T12:50:58Z")
Mick Hucknall. If only so they could use my suggested obit title: **Simply Dead**. Plus, avoid all his personal craziness. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2015, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-entertainers-legacy-would-have-benefited-most-from-an-early-death/646601/99 "2015-08-30T13:07:28Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > If M. Night had died after The Sixth Sense and Unbreakable people would think the world lost an all time director with an entire oeuvre of cinematic brilliance ahead of him. It would be tragic, actually, to live in a world where The Happening didn’t, uh, happen. This is a perfect example. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2015, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-entertainers-legacy-would-have-benefited-most-from-an-early-death/646601/100 "2015-08-30T19:19:50Z")
> [@Nunzio\_Tavulari](#): > > Paul McCartney. > > He’s had some really crap songs as a solo performer and in Wings. Lennon has practically been deified despite an even worse solo career and many unpleasant shenanigans. Paul is respected but isn’t loved as much as you’d expect for a Beatle. > > I think that John’s death came at the perfect moment to enhance his legacy. His new album wasn’t outstanding but it gave hope that he was back and would be making better music in the future, as well as fighting injustice. I’m not convinced the results would have been as good as everyone’s dream. In fact, I think Lennon was a candidate for Elvis syndrome. I could not agree more. I really miss John. George too. Paul may have had a lot of talent. But IMHO, John and George were the heart of that band. So sad. The good ones just seem to go early. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-entertainers-legacy-would-have-benefited-most-from-an-early-death/646601.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-entertainers-legacy-would-have-benefited-most-from-an-early-death/646601.md?page=6)