# Which highly praised children’s books leave you cold? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 29, 2011, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-highly-praised-children-s-books-leave-you-cold/576396 "2011-03-29T17:08:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-highly-praised-children-s-books-leave-you-cold/576396/121 "2011-04-05T10:15:47Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > And I get to say I think your opinion is worth three fourths of f\*ck all and that I would be embarrassed to express it if I was in your position. Please dial it back here. There’s no rule against swearing or criticizing a poster’s comments but let’s keep the tone appropriate for Cafe Society. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-highly-praised-children-s-books-leave-you-cold/576396/122 "2011-04-05T13:24:59Z")
I don’t get Princhester’s position - I’m with JsGoddess - if I’ve read half of a book by an author & I hated it, I am fully entitled to say I didn’t like what I read by that author. sure doesn’t make me a fool, or make my opinion worthless. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-highly-praised-children-s-books-leave-you-cold/576396/123 "2011-04-06T12:06:50Z")
Well my position was predicated on your post where you said the Harry Potter \*series \*was boring although you hadn’t read it. Now you say you don’t get my position because if you have read half of a book of an author you are fully entitled to say you didn’t like “what I read” by that author. Keen readers might notice a difference, and reflect on why you have found it necessary to wind your position back so severely. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-highly-praised-children-s-books-leave-you-cold/576396/124 "2011-04-06T12:19:01Z")
– and if you HAD read it, the response would be “well, she can’t be that bad an author, why are you trashing her when she somehow got you to read the entire thing hahahahehehehe!” ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-highly-praised-children-s-books-leave-you-cold/576396/125 "2011-04-06T13:09:55Z")
There’s an element of truth to that. But if I have read part of something and I don’t like what I’ve read then what I say is “I couldn’t get into it” or “I didn’t like what I read”. What I don’t do is say that the whole series is boring, or say that after reading “a chapter or so” of later books I could form a view that they were “make-up-as-you-go-along”\* or boast that I had read enough to form an “intellegent opinion” about the series. \*and there couldn’t be a better demonstration of how to embarrass yourself by offering strong comments on something you know little about than saying this. Not only is it utterly obvious to anyone who has read the whole of the later books that they had to have been carefully plotted from the outset, there is [objective documentary evidence](http://www.slashfilm.com/potd-jk-rowlings-plot-spreadsheet-for-harry-potter-and-the-order-of-the-phoenix/)that is exactly what Rowling did. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-highly-praised-children-s-books-leave-you-cold/576396/126 "2011-04-06T13:29:13Z")
One last comment: Rowling may have had the whole thing plotted out from the beginning. I believe her. But it sure didn’t “feel” that way to me as I (tried) to read the books. What I have read of the books I have found boring & repetitive. I stand by that & still think it does not make me a fool or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-highly-praised-children-s-books-leave-you-cold/576396/127 "2011-04-06T15:30:41Z")
The final book in the Harry Potter series is, IMO, a masterpiece of tying plot threads together and capping the series. Prior to its release, I fully expected to be disappointed with lots of questions left unanswered, etc., but it delivered masterfully. I can see not caring for this type of story, not liking the writing style, etc., but I don’t think you can legitimately say that this series sucks because it was made up as it went along. It is perhaps the best example I can think of, of a series that does NOT suffer from that problem. However, it’s not something you could detect by reading only the first book. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-highly-praised-children-s-books-leave-you-cold/576396/128 "2011-04-06T16:00:51Z")
I have read chapters from ALL the Harry Potter books. I said it “felt” made up as it went; I don’t deny Rowling had it all plotted out from the beginning. I’ve said it before, but I swear I won’t say it again: The Harry Potter series left me cold, I thought the plots were repetitive and lame; the author needed an editor; the characters didn’t interest me. Obviously the books were sent from heaven and this reaction is evidence of my own idiocy. Heretofore I thought we all had a right to our own opinions. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-highly-praised-children-s-books-leave-you-cold/576396/129 "2011-04-06T16:12:33Z")
> [@well\_he\_s\_back](#): > > I have read chapters from ALL the Harry Potter books. I said it “felt” made up as it went; I don’t deny Rowling had it all plotted out from the beginning. I’ve said it before, but I swear I won’t say it again: The Harry Potter series left me cold, I thought the plots were repetitive and lame; the author needed an editor; the characters didn’t interest me. > > Obviously the books were sent from heaven and this reaction is evidence of my own idiocy. Heretofore I thought we all had a right to our own opinions. I don’t think your last paragraph there is particularly representative of what I wrote. I also don’t think that, regarding whether the plot ties together and forms a coherent whole, you can get a sense of that from just reading individual chapters here and there either. Of course you’re entitled to your opinion; I am just explaining why mine differs. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-highly-praised-children-s-books-leave-you-cold/576396/130 "2011-04-06T16:38:30Z")
I swore I wouldn’t add anything else but I gave up self-control for Lent: At school we were taught how to skim for important ideas when researching, to find valuable resource books back in the pre-internet era. Skimming is also useful to familiarize yourself with a novel when you do not like it well enough to read the whole thing. I have skimmed through all the H.P. books. I still don’t like them. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-highly-praised-children-s-books-leave-you-cold/576396/131 "2011-04-06T16:54:48Z")
Right, but I’m talking about your specific comment that it felt made up as it went along, i.e. that the plot didn’t seem internally consistent. I don’t think you can get a good sense of that from skimming. Certainly you can decide that you don’t like an author’s writing style by skimming; I’ve done that myself plenty of times. But I don’t think you can get a good sense of overall plot depth and consistency just by reading a chapter or two per book, or by skimming. I kind of do feel like I’ve inadvertently been sucked into some kind of horrible fangirl-style discussion here, but seriously, I’m not trying to talk you into liking the HP books. I would certainly not suggest that anyone read all of a monster seven-book series when they haven’t enjoyed the first book or two at all. But I do think that if you are going to make certain specific complaints, e.g. that the plot lacks consistency and feels unplanned, you should probably have read (not skimmed) the whole series. That’s all. I have no beef with your opinion that the characterization sucked, the books were repetitive, etc. I think that’s something you can very legitimately pick up just from reading the first book or so, or really even just skimming it. I really want to reiterate here that I am _not_ hugely invested in this argument and this all probably makes it sound like I care a lot more than I really do about J.K. Rowling’s plotting abilities or whatever. 😛 I’m just trying to explain where I’m coming from. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-highly-praised-children-s-books-leave-you-cold/576396/132 "2011-04-06T17:08:28Z")
Thanks for your thoughtful post MsWhatsit. sorry I overreacted. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-highly-praised-children-s-books-leave-you-cold/576396/133 "2011-04-06T17:40:09Z")
> [@well\_he\_s\_back](#): > > I have read chapters from ALL the Harry Potter books. I said it “felt” made up as it went; I don’t deny Rowling had it all plotted out from the beginning. I’ve said it before, but I swear I won’t say it again: The Harry Potter series left me cold, I thought the plots were repetitive and lame; the author needed an editor; the characters didn’t interest me. FWIW, if what you are saying is 'I didn’t like what I read of Harry Potter and don’t expect the rest of the series to be any better", then I for one have no issue with it. And I say that as a huge HP fan. There is, however, something to be said for the argument that things have to be experienced in their entirety to be fully appreciated. If you stopped reading _The Murder of Roger Ackroyd_ halfway thru and dismissed it as mediocre, you would be kind of missing the point for a certain kind of book. _The Order of the Phoenix_ is the only HP book that left me more or less cold. I tried several times as a child, and once as an adult, to plow thru _[The Little Lame Prince](http://the-office.com/bedtime-story/lameprinceintro.htm)_, but never managed to get all the way thru. Too saccharine and Victorian passive-aggressive. The phrase “get a grip, you little twit” wasn’t available to me in my childhood, but I needed it. Most children’s stories where people behave like idiots get on my nerves. Several of Grimm’s Fairy Tales are like that - the protagonist gets told specifically not to do something, and sure as you’re born he goes off and does exactly that. And then it works out fine in the end. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-highly-praised-children-s-books-leave-you-cold/576396/134 "2011-04-06T23:20:05Z")
> [@well\_he\_s\_back](#): > > I swore I wouldn’t add anything else but I gave up self-control for Lent: At school we were taught how to skim for important ideas when researching, to find valuable resource books back in the pre-internet era. Skimming is also useful to familiarize yourself with a novel when you do not like it well enough to read the whole thing. I have skimmed through all the H.P. books. I still don’t like them. Yes but skimming involves assuming and we know why Benny Hill said one shouldn’t assume, don’t we kids? What you were taught at school was how to skim for ideas to find valuable resource books _so you could then read them thoroughly_. Not so you could spout off firm opinions about what was in the valuable resource books that you hadn’t read. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-highly-praised-children-s-books-leave-you-cold/576396/135 "2011-04-07T02:29:39Z")
Well, Princhester, I read enough to form the very firm opinion that I’m not wild about the Harry Potter books and that life is too short to go read every word of them on the off chance I’ll change my mind. I’m convinced I read plenty, and read enough to form this opinion even though I didn’t read all of every book. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-highly-praised-children-s-books-leave-you-cold/576396/136 "2011-04-07T03:50:27Z")
I know that. As myself and others have said, if you had said at the outset merely “I’m not wild about the Harry Potter books and that life is too short to go read every word of them on the off chance I’ll change my mind” this debate would never have happened. People are entitled to their own taste and their own decisions about what they are not going to bother with. I have never suggested to the contrary. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-highly-praised-children-s-books-leave-you-cold/576396/137 "2011-04-07T13:20:28Z")
sorry I worded my comments so poorly then at the outset, Princhester. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-highly-praised-children-s-books-leave-you-cold/576396.md?page=6)