# Which hypothetical job is least unethical? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 18, 2011, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-hypothetical-job-is-least-unethical/599992 "2011-10-18T01:48:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-hypothetical-job-is-least-unethical/599992/41 "2011-10-18T17:33:09Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > That’s _not_ what the OP presented as a choice. He asked us to choose to be a _head chef_ specifically for the death camp. There is no escaping culpability there. I see the examples I gave as obvious equivalents of what the OP described. You’re not committing crimes; you’re feeding people who commit crimes. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Sensitive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@Darth\_Sensitive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Sensitive)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-hypothetical-job-is-least-unethical/599992/42 "2011-10-18T19:53:54Z")
Lawyer. As long as I’m not killing witnesses or bribing juries. If the system isn’t good enough to convict my clients within the bounds of the law, then they should go free. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-hypothetical-job-is-least-unethical/599992/43 "2011-10-18T20:11:03Z")
I’d metagame a bit and figure out which job would be best after the 1 year is up, short term damage can’t match long term gains, this means that even if weapons designer, defense lawyer, or drugs cooker would probably be the best. Weapons Designer gives me engineering knowledge, as well as the ability to subvert my own weapon with a new one after my time is up. All else fails, I develop something ballbreakingly powerful and hope MAD works out. If I’m so magically good at being a Lawyer I can get anyone off, I have incredibly good argumentation skills, which allows me to make some real change by swaying legal bodies after my time is up. Drug Cooker gives me amazing chemistry, medicinal, and possible neuroscientific knowledge which I could use to make some way to fight addiction, or any number of good drugs and medicines. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-hypothetical-job-is-least-unethical/599992/44 "2011-10-18T21:56:04Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > That’s _not_ what the OP presented as a choice. He asked us to choose to be a _head chef_ specifically for the death camp. There is no escaping culpability there. I didn’t notice in the op, but do you have a way to control those 30 million guns you’re making? What are the chances that one of those guns is going to take a life. I’m not adding additional harm by feeding people that are already doing bad things. Maybe my yummy food will even melt the heart of one of those evil bad guys I’m feeding and I’ll be able to get him to save just one life. Ok, that’s the best I got and I don’t care enough to argue anymore since I usually suck at it anyway. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![PandaBear77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@PandaBear77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PandaBear77)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-hypothetical-job-is-least-unethical/599992/45 "2011-10-18T22:38:55Z")
I think the weapons designer or tobacco lobbyist job is the least distasteful. I’d probably go with the lobbyist job simply because I’m not interested in designing stuff. (Yes the OP said I’d be good at it, but I’m still not interested.) ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-hypothetical-job-is-least-unethical/599992/46 "2011-10-18T22:49:20Z")
Tobacco lobbyist is least unethical because smoking is a legal choice. Also I’m a former smoker, so it’d be my preferred job anyway. I could see being very good at it! Alternatively, I’d consider the chef job if I got to poison lunch on my last day there 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-hypothetical-job-is-least-unethical/599992/47 "2011-10-18T23:14:25Z")
> [@rachelellogram](#): > > Tobacco lobbyist is least unethical because smoking is a legal choice. Also I’m a former smoker, so it’d be my preferred job anyway. I could see being very good at it! > > Alternatively, I’d consider the chef job if I got to poison lunch on my last day there 😉 Don’t confuse what’s illegal with what’s unethical. The guards at Auschwitz weren’t breaking any laws. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-hypothetical-job-is-least-unethical/599992/48 "2011-10-19T06:52:39Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > “Silly technicality”? Like the Fourth, Fifth, or Sixth Amendment? Laymen just really don’t get it. They bitch and whine about lawyers until it’s their ass on the line. Then they want Perry fucking Mason on the case, expect miracles, AND want the lawyer to work for free. No, we get it perfectly. The only reason we want that is because we are innocent. If the lawyer also thinks we are innocent, then no harm, no foul. But, according to the hypothetical, you know they are guilty. You are supposed to recuse yourself from such cases. Being a lawyer doesn’t have to be immoral. But when you find people who say they will break the intent of the law to help someone they know is guilty get off, then there is no way to defend that as ethical. You are knowingly subverting the legal process in order to get someone you know is guilty back on the street. You are ethically responsible for every other crime they commit. There is no way around this point. Heck, if your client confesses to you, you are ethically required to stop representing them. So even your own freaking ethical code realizes that defending the guilty is wrong. The only reason you are able to defend is because you know that they might not be guilty. That’s why they need representation. BTW, seeing as there are not, as some people think, loopholes that can get you out of anything, you have to be using some sort of magic if you aren’t breaking the law yourself. Remember, the hypothetical says you can get _anyone_ off. Think of the worst criminal you know, (say, for example, Osama Bin Laden). If you represented him, he would now be walking around free. The hypothetical necessarily includes magic. And someone who does not have an ethical problem with every criminal going free shouldn’t be a lawyer at all. Oh, and I choose the chef for the reasons already offered. It’s the only scenario where they’d definitely still be doing all the evil anyways, as it’s the only one where I’m not playing a vital role. True, I’d hate myself, but it’s the least bad option. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-hypothetical-job-is-least-unethical/599992/49 "2011-10-19T14:35:43Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Being a lawyer doesn’t have to be immoral. But when you find people who say they will break the intent of the law to help someone they know is guilty get off, then there is no way to defend that as ethical. You are knowingly subverting the legal process in order to get someone you know is guilty back on the street. You are ethically responsible for every other crime they commit. If you know someone is guilty (and I took it from the OP that you know because of the magical hypotetical fairy, not from a confession (which could possibly be false anyway)), but the state gained evidence by illegal means, then there’s nothing wrong with trying to get the person off. In fact, \*not \*trying to get them sprung is the first step toward a police state. Recognizing there are procedures the state has to follow, but ignoring them when it suits the purpose, is no better than not having the procedures at all. Forced confession? Yeah, but it’s OK, he was guilty! Keeping the defendant without access to a lawyer and questioning him for 36 hours straight? Yeah, but it’s OK, he was guilty! Planting fingerprints and blood at the scene? Yeah, but it’s OK, he was guilty! Breaking and entering and tapping phones without a warrant? Yeah, but it’s OK, he was guilty! ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-hypothetical-job-is-least-unethical/599992/50 "2011-10-19T14:46:46Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > But, according to the hypothetical, you know they are guilty. You are supposed to recuse yourself from such cases. [QUOTE=BigT] Heck, if your client confesses to you, you are ethically required to stop representing them. So even your own freaking ethical code realizes that defending the guilty is wrong. The only reason you are able to defend is because you know that they might not be guilty. That’s why they need representation. [/QUOTE] Both of these statements are incorrect. There is no such obligation. If the client confesses to the defence lawyer, it limits the defences the defence lawyer can put forward, but the defence lawyer is not required to recuse him/herself. For example, the defence lawyer can still contest the prosecution’s evidence - was it a forced confession? if so, it should be excluded? was the evidence gathered without a warrant? if so the evidence should be excluded. And the accused may be acquitted. That is perfectly consistent with the lawyer’s ethical duties to the client, the court and the public. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-hypothetical-job-is-least-unethical/599992/51 "2011-10-19T16:55:50Z")
I chose weapons designer because I assume that will be the least actively evil choice - I can design the hell out of guns, but nobody has to buy them (and nobody gets addicted to them, either). They can sit on the shelves, and I can sleep at night. I felt that all of the rest of the options had me in a more actively evil role. ---
**Author:** ![Chopper9760](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cdc98d/32.png) [@Chopper9760](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chopper9760)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-hypothetical-job-is-least-unethical/599992/52 "2011-10-19T17:16:02Z")
I’d be a weapons engineer, sounds interesting. The chef and the drug maker are the only unethical positions listed IMO. ---
**Author:** ![randomface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5fc32e/32.png) [@randomface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randomface)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-hypothetical-job-is-least-unethical/599992/53 "2011-10-19T19:29:15Z")
I picked chef. I would cook the most fattening, best tasting dishes from whatever ethnicity was incarcerated at the camp. The guards would every day be forced to confront (and compliment) the culture they are trying to destroy. ---
**Author:** ![Namkcalb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c89c15/32.png) [@Namkcalb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Namkcalb)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-hypothetical-job-is-least-unethical/599992/54 "2011-10-20T00:22:47Z")
> [@randomface](#): > > I picked chef. I would cook the most fattening, best tasting dishes from **whatever ethnicity was incarcerated at the camp**. The guards would every day be forced to confront (and compliment) the culture they are trying to destroy. _emphesis mine._ You know this can very easily be misinterpreted. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-hypothetical-job-is-least-unethical/599992/55 "2011-10-20T01:27:59Z")
> [@Namkcalb](#): > > _emphesis mine._ > > You know this can very easily be misinterpreted. :eek: Maybe he’s going to serve a side of fava beans and a nice chianti… ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-hypothetical-job-is-least-unethical/599992/56 "2011-10-20T03:44:58Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > I said lawyer. IANAL. An attorney’s job is to advocate for the client. It is not unethical to ensure that your client gets the best possible treatment under the law, as long as you are not lying and do not knowingly allow your client to lie under oath. It might be a little smarmy, but I believe that any lawyer will tell you it is not unethical. > > All the other ones contribute directly or indirectly to causing death. The problem I have with the laywer is that you are serving clients that are known to have committed the crime. You can talk about the difference between legal guilt and moral culpability all you like, but I don’t want to get that person off. I would choose chef. For all the others you are enabling the acts, for chef, you are just making evil people happier ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-hypothetical-job-is-least-unethical/599992/57 "2011-10-20T03:45:06Z")
> [@randomface](#): > > I picked chef. I would cook the most fattening, best tasting dishes from whatever ethnicity was incarcerated at the camp. The guards would every day be forced to confront (and compliment) the culture they are trying to destroy. So you’d be in the middle of a Auschwitz, a death camp set up to eliminate Jews and anyone who might be Jewish. Set up to eliminate any traces of Judaism. And your first day on the job you’re going to serve everyone a nice breakfast of bagels with lox, blintzes, and latkas. Yeah, I can’t see how that plan could go wrong. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-hypothetical-job-is-least-unethical/599992/58 "2011-10-20T03:52:04Z")
> [@bup](#): > > I picked the lawyer, because, while they’re all guilty, like you specified, it may be that sometimes evidence was illegally obtained, or someone committed perjury to nail the guy. In fact, many ‘loopholes’ are necessary evils that I’d rather have and support than not. In that case, while it’s helping get a murderer off, perhaps it’s making the overall justice system better. In the individual case - IF the person really did do it, I don’t give two hoots how it is proven. What I DO care about, is if we let the abuse go unchecked when the person IS guilty, then sooner rather than later, the same techniques are going to be used to convict someone that is innocent. For this reason it is better that we let the guilty person go, and protect the innocent that is being accused. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-hypothetical-job-is-least-unethical/599992/59 "2011-10-20T03:52:09Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > The problem I have with the laywer is that you are serving clients that are known to have committed the crime. > > You can talk about the difference between legal guilt and moral culpability all you like, but I don’t want to get that person off. > > I would choose chef. For all the others you are enabling the acts, for chef, you are just making evil people happier By feeding the guards, you are providing them with the sustenance needed to carry out the acts of torture and murder of the prisoners, which you know is why they need to be fed. That is absolutely enabling the acts. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-hypothetical-job-is-least-unethical/599992/60 "2011-10-20T12:53:26Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > By feeding the guards, you are providing them with the sustenance needed to carry out the acts of torture and murder of the prisoners, which you know is why they need to be fed. That is absolutely enabling the acts. No, it’s just enabling their continued existence. The acts are \*their \*choices, not the chef’s. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-hypothetical-job-is-least-unethical/599992.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-hypothetical-job-is-least-unethical/599992.md?page=4)