# Which is a better sports city, Pittsburgh or Philadelphia? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 18, 2007, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-a-better-sports-city-pittsburgh-or-philadelphia/423224 "2007-10-18T21:16:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Soapbox\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Soapbox\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soapbox_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2007, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-a-better-sports-city-pittsburgh-or-philadelphia/423224/21 "2007-10-20T05:24:09Z")
Congratulations, Philster, Philly covers more area than Pittsburgh. Oh, the Pirates and Penguins might leave? Umm…who cares? The city will get over it. Pittsburgh’s love of the Steelers trumps Philly’s fan-dom for all four of their sports teams combined. Having lived most of my life near Philly, I’m amazing at the level of fair weather fans and perennial bandwagon jumpers. Hundreds of thousands of people across the country who have lived for even small portions of their lives in the Pittsburgh area bleed black and gold. How many Eagles fans are there outside of the tri-state area? Because I’m in Chester County (30 miles outside of Philly) and here it’s 50-50 between Steelers and Eagles fans. Head out towards Lancaster or up the northeast extension of the turnpike and the Philly faithful get scarce very quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Soapbox\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Soapbox\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soapbox_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2007, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-a-better-sports-city-pittsburgh-or-philadelphia/423224/22 "2007-10-20T05:29:59Z")
Oh, and that didn’t mean to come off as harshly as it probably reads. Just doing a little chest pumping. ---
**Author:** ![Vihaga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Vihaga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vihaga)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2007, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-a-better-sports-city-pittsburgh-or-philadelphia/423224/23 "2007-10-20T08:52:02Z")
[QUOTE=Least Original User Name Ever] Yeah, but it’s not all about championships. Philly could win 4 straight in any sport and their fans would still be vile creatures from the pits of hell. [/QUOTE] This is the truest thing I have ever read. Thank you, LOUNE. /edit: On second thought, _maybe_ I’ve read truer things. But as someone who lives in Philly and isn’t really into sports, the rabid and evil fandom gets old fast. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2007, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-a-better-sports-city-pittsburgh-or-philadelphia/423224/24 "2007-10-20T13:55:53Z")
It’s funny that the guy should brag about cheesesteaks in Philadelphia. Did you know that a [true Philly cheesesteak has Cheez Whiz](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheesesteak) for the cheese? If you want an actual cheese on your cheesesteak, you have to order it special, and you might get a bit of a dirty look when you do so. I’ll take a Primanti Brothers capicola and cheese sandwich any day of the week and twice on Sunday over a cheez whiz cheesesteak. Of course, if you want the fries on the side, you have to order it special and you might get a dirty look. ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2007, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-a-better-sports-city-pittsburgh-or-philadelphia/423224/25 "2007-10-20T15:40:44Z")
I’m from Cleveland so I don’t have a dog in this fight, but in the interest of accuracy I count Philadelphia’s sports championships as follows: NBA - 4: 1947, '56, '67 & '83 MLB - 5: 1910, '11, '29, '30 & '80 NFL - 3: '1960, '48 & '49. Four champions if you want to include the Frankfort Yellowjackets of 1926. NHL- 2: 1975, '74. The Philadelphia Warriors won 2 NBA titles before moving to California, while the A’s won 4 before moving to KC. I haven’t counted major college titles, but off the top of my head I recall Villanova beating Georgetown in 1985 and Tony Dorsett’s mid-1970s Pitt Panthers winning college championships. ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2007, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-a-better-sports-city-pittsburgh-or-philadelphia/423224/26 "2007-10-20T16:01:21Z")
What the heck, I went and looked up the NCAA hoops and football championships: Philly - 4 : Villanova '85, LaSalle '54 (Hoops), Penn '04 & '08 (football) Pitt, all football: - 3.5: '76 and '18 outright, and shared in '37, '16 & '15. College football titles back then were “mythical” of course. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2007, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-a-better-sports-city-pittsburgh-or-philadelphia/423224/27 "2007-10-20T16:07:14Z")
[QUOTE=zamboniracer] What the heck, I went and looked up the NCAA hoops and football championships: Philly - 4 : Villanova '85, LaSalle '54 (Hoops), Penn '04 & '08 (football) Pitt, all football: - 3.5: '76 and '18 outright, and shared in '37, '16 & '15. College football titles back then were “mythical” of course. [/QUOTE] > [@wikipedia and all those Pitt media guides](#): > > The Pitt football team lays claim to nine NCAA National Championships, in 1915, 1916, 1918, 1929, 1931, 1934, 1936, 1937 and 1976. [77] The Panthers have twice won the AP national championship by topping the media polls in 1937 and 1976.[78] > **[University of Pittsburgh](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Pittsburgh)** > > The University of Pittsburgh (Pitt) is a state-related research university in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, U.S. The university is composed of seventeen undergraduate and graduate schools and colleges at its urban Pittsburgh campus, home to the university's central administration and over 31,000 undergraduate and graduate students. The 132-acre Pittsburgh campus includes various historic buildings that are part of the Schenley Farms Historic District, most notably its 42-story Gothic revival cente P... ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2007, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-a-better-sports-city-pittsburgh-or-philadelphia/423224/28 "2007-10-20T16:23:33Z")
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian] It’s funny that the guy should brag about cheesesteaks in Philadelphia. Did you know that a [true Philly cheesesteak has Cheez Whiz](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheesesteak) for the cheese? If you want an actual cheese on your cheesesteak, you have to order it special, and you might get a bit of a dirty look when you do so. [/quote] Also, Pat’s, Jim’s and Geno’s are all overrated. The place to go is Tony Luke’s, and theirs aren’t even as good as the ones I make. People often bandy about “true Philly cheesesteaks” and how they can’t be made outside of Philadelphia, blah blah blah. That’s true if you’re into lousy food. I can’t possibly make a steak as bad as they do in Philadelphia. Why? I don’t have the heart to serve food like that. Come to Harrisburg. I’ll show you how it’s really done. > [@](#): > > I’ll take a Primanti Brothers capicola and cheese sandwich any day of the week and twice on Sunday over a cheez whiz cheesesteak. Of course, if you want the fries on the side, you have to order it special and you might get a dirty look. Now this is some good eats if you can overcome your initial shock at seeing it for the first time. I prefer corned beef, myself. ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2007, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-a-better-sports-city-pittsburgh-or-philadelphia/423224/29 "2007-10-20T16:35:54Z")
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian] > **[University of Pittsburgh](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Pittsburgh)** > > The University of Pittsburgh (Pitt) is a state-related research university in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, U.S. The university is composed of seventeen undergraduate and graduate schools and colleges at its urban Pittsburgh campus, home to the university's central administration and over 31,000 undergraduate and graduate students. The 132-acre Pittsburgh campus includes various historic buildings that are part of the Schenley Farms Historic District, most notably its 42-story Gothic revival cente P... [/QUOTE] Pitt may lay claim to them but they’d get an argument. Notre Dame claims the 1929 championship, Southern Cal claims the 1931 title, both Alabama and Minnesota also claim the 1934 crown, LSU & Minnesota say they won it in 1936, and Cal claims a share with Pitt in 1937. I missed 1915, which Cornell claims to share with Pitt. My source is Dan Jenkins’ articles “They’re Number One!” and “Ancient History”, published in Jenkins’ book, “You Call it Sports, But I say it’s a Jungle Out There”, (1989), ISBN 0671690213. I also overlooked the Pittsburgh Pipers’ American Basketball Association championship of 1968. My apologies. ---
**Author:** ![cainxinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7bcc69/32.png) [@cainxinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cainxinth)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2007, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-a-better-sports-city-pittsburgh-or-philadelphia/423224/30 "2007-10-20T20:59:10Z")
Fortunately, we win in the “where would you rather live test.” ---
**Author:** ![denquixote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9bd4f/32.png) [@denquixote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/denquixote)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2007, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-a-better-sports-city-pittsburgh-or-philadelphia/423224/31 "2007-10-20T20:59:15Z")
Also, prior to 1964 or so the NIT was still the premier Basketball tournament in college sports. Duquesne University in Pittsburgh won it once. Prior to 1939 the Helms Foundation declared a national collegiate basketball and football champion and Pitt won that twice in basketball. Penn also won it twice and Temple once. La Salle and Temple also won the NIT once prior to 1964. Pittsburgh also produced three boxing champions Billy Conn, Fritzi Zivic and Paul Spadafora to Joe Frazier for Philadelphia. ---
**Author:** ![cainxinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7bcc69/32.png) [@cainxinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cainxinth)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2007, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-a-better-sports-city-pittsburgh-or-philadelphia/423224/32 "2007-10-20T21:02:36Z")
[QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF] Also, Pat’s, Jim’s and Geno’s are all overrated. The place to go is Tony Luke’s, and theirs aren’t even as good as the ones I make. People often bandy about “true Philly cheesesteaks” and how they can’t be made outside of Philadelphia, blah blah blah. That’s true if you’re into lousy food. I can’t possibly make a steak as bad as they do in Philadelphia. Why? I don’t have the heart to serve food like that. Come to Harrisburg. I’ll show you how it’s really done. Now this is some good eats if you can overcome your initial shock at seeing it for the first time. I prefer corned beef, myself. [/QUOTE] Best cheesesteaks I’ve had (and I’ve had them everywhere) are both at the Jersey shore. Dino’s in Margate and the White House in Atlantic City. Best in Philly goes to John’s Roast Pork on Snyder, but they’ve taken a hit since Sarcone’s stop selling them their bread. ---
**Author:** ![Busy\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@Busy\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Busy_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2007, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-a-better-sports-city-pittsburgh-or-philadelphia/423224/33 "2007-10-20T22:53:58Z")
[QUOTE=denquixote] Pittsburgh also produced three boxing champions Billy Conn, Fritzi Zivic and Paul Spadafora to Joe Frazier for Philadelphia. [/QUOTE] You cannae compare Pittsburgh to Philly for boxing, are you serious? Philadelphia is probably one of the most storied boxing cities in the world, let alone Pennsylvania. Bernard Hopkins, Matthew Franklin (a foundling named after the Ben Franklin blvd IIRC), Dwight Muhammad Qawi, Meldrick Taylor, Tim Witherspoon plus the aformentioned Smokin’ Joe - just a few world class fighters from recent years. Plenty of old time legends as well - ‘Philadelphia’ Jack O’Brien and Jersey Joe Walcott (recipient of the legendary ‘Suzie Q’ right hand from Rocky Marciano) spring to mind. The greatest fighter from Pittsburgh has to be Harry Greb - makes many fight fans top five all time pound for pound lists. As far as the OP goes, Philly gets the nod. **Philster** has it right - when you’re talking about sports towns its not about the championships, its about the fans and the city. The Steelers are a special team, so the hat is off there, but that’s it - it’s a one-horse town. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2007, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-a-better-sports-city-pittsburgh-or-philadelphia/423224/34 "2007-10-20T23:55:47Z")
[QUOTE=Philster] Personally, I think it’s insulting to even mention Philly in the same breath as Pittsburgh – it is insulting to anyone from Philly. Pittsburgh has this bug up their butt about the only real major city in the State of Pennsylvania – Philly – and they’ve had it for quite some time. [/QUOTE] Philadelphia’s a major city? I mean, maybe a long time ago it was, but it’s not really of any importance now, is it? Didn’t everyone move away? ---
**Author:** ![Governor\_Quinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@Governor\_Quinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Governor_Quinn)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2007, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-a-better-sports-city-pittsburgh-or-philadelphia/423224/35 "2007-10-21T00:04:23Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] Didn’t everyone move away? [/QUOTE] [It still has somewhere between 1,400,000 and 1,500,000 residents, which, while only at three-fourths of its 1970 population (which was, in turn, lower than peak), still makes it one of the largest cities in the United States](http://www.city-data.com/city/Philadelphia-Pennsylvania.html) ---
**Author:** ![Soapbox\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Soapbox\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soapbox_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2007, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-a-better-sports-city-pittsburgh-or-philadelphia/423224/36 "2007-10-21T00:33:40Z")
[QUOTE=The Cocky Watchman] **Philster** has it right - when you’re talking about sports towns its not about the championships, its about the fans and the city. [/QUOTE] And the fans are the worst you’ll find anywhere. Chicago and Boston, as Philster pointed out, _do_ have amazing fans. Philly fans, however, will boo and curse the team out if they’re trailing 5 minutes into the second quarter of the home opener. I feel bad, because I like a lot of players on the Philly teams across all the sports and I want them to win some championships, but Philly fans simply don’t deserve them. Most ungrateful fans in the country. They boo’ed Donovan on draft day (I woulda loved to see how far you got with Ricky “The Toker” Williams). No wonder Donovan “choked” at the end of the Super Bowl. I wouldn’t have won it for Philly either. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2007, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-a-better-sports-city-pittsburgh-or-philadelphia/423224/37 "2007-10-21T00:43:50Z")
[QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF] Also, Pat’s, Jim’s and Geno’s are all overrated. The place to go is Tony Luke’s, and theirs aren’t even as good as the ones I make. People often bandy about “true Philly cheesesteaks” and how they can’t be made outside of Philadelphia, blah blah blah. That’s true if you’re into lousy food. I can’t possibly make a steak as bad as they do in Philadelphia. Why? I don’t have the heart to serve food like that. Come to Harrisburg. I’ll show you how it’s really done. [/QUOTE] _Nods_ Listen to him. I had one of his at a Dopeween way back. And for those who think that Pittsburgh is all football-two words: Honus Wagner ---
**Author:** ![Neptunian\_Slug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce7236/32.png) [@Neptunian\_Slug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neptunian_Slug)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2007, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-a-better-sports-city-pittsburgh-or-philadelphia/423224/38 "2007-10-21T02:23:05Z")
Moved to the area about ten years ago and have had Eagles tickets for about eight years now. All I can say is that the Philly sports bandwagon has more people hopping on and off of it than the Broad Street Subway. Name a sports figure from Donovan McNabb to Charlie Manuel to Allen Iverson. In the course of a couple of weeks, these guys can go from being goats to gods. And right back to being goats. Jeff Garcia has no idea how lucky he is. He ended last season as a hero and then left so he never had a chance to fail in the fans eyes. And Pat’s and Geno’s are grossly overrated. Their only redeeming quality is you can go 24 hours a day for a cheesesteak. That’s a good thing since you have to go there at 2AM to avoid standing in line behind dozens of tourists to get your steak. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2007, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-a-better-sports-city-pittsburgh-or-philadelphia/423224/39 "2007-10-21T22:50:51Z")
I don’t have a lot of respect for any team whose fans needed a [judge](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seamus_McCaffrey) assigned to the Vet on game days to deal with the rowdier fans. [Obligatory YouTube link.](http://youtube.com/watch?v=QX7MnGIW0to) When Real Men of Genius covers Philly sports fans, you know things are bad. Robin ---
**Author:** ![Quint](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/76d3ee/32.png) [@Quint](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quint)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2007, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-a-better-sports-city-pittsburgh-or-philadelphia/423224/40 "2007-10-22T02:08:00Z")
[QUOTE=The Cocky Watchman] As far as the OP goes, Philly gets the nod. **Philster** has it right - when you’re talking about sports towns its not about the championships, its about the fans and the city. The Steelers are a special team, so the hat is off there, but that’s it - it’s a one-horse town. [/QUOTE] I’m not exactly sure if I understand the point you are trying to make, but the Penguins had Mario Lemieux for his entire career. That alone makes for something special to any hockey fan. Add in Jagr in his prime, Ron Francis, and now Sidney Crosby, Malkin, and a host of young talent. There’s no way you can say that is not special. It’s also not fair! Bastards! In Philly’s favour, they had the broad street bullies, the last team entirely comprised of Canadians to win the Stanley Cup, with Bernie Parent in net. Jesus saves, but only when Bernie takes a night off. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-a-better-sports-city-pittsburgh-or-philadelphia/423224.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-a-better-sports-city-pittsburgh-or-philadelphia/423224.md?page=3)