# Which is better, Star Trek: TOS or Star Trek: TNG? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 22, 2015, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187 "2015-06-22T21:57:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/61 "2015-06-23T17:43:59Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > “The _Enterprise_ Incident” sucked. If you want to nominate _any_ third season episode, I’d suggest something like “Spectre of the Gun,” “Day of the Dove,” or “The Tholian Web.” “That Which Survives” was not bad either. > > Even “All Our Yesterdays” and “Turnabout Intruder” were better than “_Enterprise_ Incident.” Whoa, hey, hey, what, hey, whoa…wait a sec, hey, whoa… …hey… I… don’t have a ready reply to that. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/62 "2015-06-23T17:46:19Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > TNG tried to have Riker played as a Kirk-like character, and I really feel that this was genius… except that they couldn’t pull it off. Whether we blame the writers or Jonathan Frakes, that character totally failed. Anyway, Kirk as Picard’s number 2 would be perfect for me, especially if the conflicts between their styles were played up correctly. Riker was much closer to Will Decker in _ **TMP** _ than he ever was to Kirk. (They even had the same first names!) About the last thing Picard needed was someone like Kirk as his XO. Kirk would have hogged the limelight and taken incredible risks; Riker was content to remain in Picard’s shadow and do his best to keep the Captain out of both danger and trouble. IIRC, there was a late-series episode in which one officer was a cowboy-type and Picard _et al_. narrowly averted a disaster after following his advice. But I can’t recall the name of the episode or anything else about it. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/63 "2015-06-23T17:48:52Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Whoa, hey, hey, what, hey, whoa…wait a sec, hey, whoa… > > …hey… > > I… don’t have a ready reply to that. “That boy ain’t right!” ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/64 "2015-06-23T17:58:01Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Whoa, hey, hey, what, hey, whoa…wait a sec, hey, whoa… > > …hey… > > I… don’t have a ready reply to that. The scenario: “We’re sending you on a top-secret espionage mission. We don’t know how you’re going to get in and out safely, but that’s not important right now. You can figure it out on your own. You will, however, have to convince everyone you’ve gone crazy and thrown away your career by committing an act of war on your own authority. Oh, and you absolutely, positively have to succeed, since what you’re going to try to steal is of vital importance to national security. Don’t worry about any potential repercussions to your personal reputation or effectiveness as a commander; we’ll kind of just sweep everything under the rug and hope everyone in your crew keeps their mouth shut.” Now then: As recommended in the _ **Star Trek Writer’s Guide** _, apply that to a present-day example; say, a US Navy captain in command of a ship in the Persian Gulf. Go ahead, tell me I’m wrong! :dubious: **[EDIT]:** Whoops, someone just did! Amazing! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/65 "2015-06-23T18:12:32Z")
Damn! I left out the most important part: “Remember, you must do everything you possibly can to keep us (your superiors) off the hook, however many of the 430 people you’re putting at risk end up getting killed, and even if your state-of-the-art vessel is destroyed or falls into enemy hands intact!” ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/66 "2015-06-23T18:25:48Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > … > As much as I liked Data, he was too much of a Mr Spock stand-in to work well for me. We’d already seen “what happens if we put in a character that is supposed to act strictly from logic and rationality and has no familiarity with emotions etc?” Also, they played him too much like they’d invented androids exactly yesterday and it had never occurred to any android or to culture at large to explore these questions of android identity before… But Data essentially _was_ invented yesterday. As I recall, Doctor Soong created him and then dropped out of sight and was believed dead, so Data was unique (or considered so at the time since no one was aware of his “siblings”) and no one even totally understood how he worked. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/67 "2015-06-23T18:35:17Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Rudely, too. Not “fun ribbing of a pal” but outright dismissal. Wouldn’t talk to him (“it”) at all. Not a way to make a good first impression. > > She refused to even care enough to pronounce his name correctly: > > [“One is my name, the other is not.”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqwx2XFb1fQ) Meh. I am a Star Trek fanboi. (I don’t speak Klingon, but I liked all of the TV series. Yes, even _that_ one.) I, too, struggled with whether Data was a cleverly programmed machine or a sentient being. Over the years, I accepted the opinion of his crewmates in the show, as I guess they are in the best position to judge. But I could be talked out of it! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/68 "2015-06-23T19:17:33Z")
Short answer: “Original Series over Next Generation but Picard over Kirk.” ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/69 "2015-06-23T21:15:15Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > TOS has the single best episode (“A Private Little War”) but TNG has more good episodes, simply because of the numbers. DS9 is better than either, though. Other than Nancy Kovack, what is there to like about “A Private Little War”? The gorillacorn? ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/70 "2015-06-23T21:45:40Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > But Data essentially _was_ invented yesterday. As I recall, Doctor Soong created him and then dropped out of sight and was believed dead, so Data was unique (or considered so at the time since no one was aware of his “siblings”) and no one even totally understood how he worked. I don’t think the series held my attention long enough for me to have made the acquaintance of this Doctor Soong. Either that or I dozed off during the salient portion of that episode. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/71 "2015-06-23T22:01:45Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > Other than Nancy Kovack, what is there to like about “A Private Little War”? The gorillacorn? Do you really\* need \*any other reason than Nancy Kovack?😕 ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/72 "2015-06-23T22:05:41Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > Do you really\* need \*any other reason than Nancy Kovack?😕 Her knobs were sufficient reason for TV itself to exist, let alone an individual series. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/73 "2015-06-23T22:45:19Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Just Asking Questions** : > > A little defense of TNG. There are some episodes that I think define what ST is supposed to be. Episodes that, if they were the first one you’d seen, will give you the essence of ST, plus, get you hooked in. Naturally, these are YMMV choices. The (subjectively) best episodes: > … > Inner Light While I agree that “The Inner Light” was certainly a great episode, I disagree about it as a choice of first episode one sees. It would lose most of its impact if the viewer were not already familiar with the character of Picard. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/74 "2015-06-23T23:43:32Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > Other than Nancy Kovack, what is there to like about “A Private Little War”? The gorillacorn? The [del]gumato[/del] mugato, you mean. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/75 "2015-06-24T00:31:33Z")
I’ll cheerfully grant that the espionage plot of “The Enterprise Incident” has the sturdiness of overboiled pasta (related, it makes no sense to send Picard on a commando mission in “Chain of Command”). What saves this episode (and “Chain of Command”) from the absurdity of its premise is the character drama. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/76 "2015-06-24T00:33:43Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > The [del]gumato[/del] mugato, you mean. Nice. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/77 "2015-06-24T00:47:50Z")
Incidentally, there two of them, so [del]gumati[/del] mugati. ---
**Author:** ![PSXer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/48db29/32.png) [@PSXer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PSXer)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/78 "2015-06-24T01:54:50Z")
TOS is better even the bad episodes of TOS, most of them are still fun to watch for how bad they are (like Spock’s Brain) bad TNG is bad and boring ---
**Author:** ![ch51](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ch51/32/3111_2.png) [@ch51](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ch51)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/79 "2015-06-24T03:44:18Z")
TOS all the way. Writing. Character driven. TNG = special effects driven - except they’re not very good. Horribly dated. I’ll take TOS - even at it’s cheesiest - over boring TNG. As someone else said up thread - TNG seems more dated to me than TOS! I didn’t even like TNG when it was new. Loved the first season of DS9 though … ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/80 "2015-06-24T04:45:57Z")
They are too different to compare. TOS has aged better, except in a few sexist places where it’s far worse. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187.md?page=5)