# Which is better, Star Trek: TOS or Star Trek: TNG? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 22, 2015, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187 "2015-06-22T21:57:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/81 "2015-06-24T05:04:37Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I’ll cheerfully grant that the espionage plot of “The Enterprise Incident” has the sturdiness of overboiled pasta (related, it makes no sense to send Picard on a commando mission in “Chain of Command”). What saves this episode (and “Chain of Command”) from the absurdity of its premise is the character drama. I’ll grant you, Nimoy’s performance in “Incident” was the one good thing about the episode. On the other hand, I’ve never particularly cared for Joanne Linville (except when she was the murderer’s alcoholic wife in an episode of _ **Columbo** _) and thought her character (the unnamed “Romulan Commander”) was both whiny and thoroughly inept. After she was repatriated (assuming she’d be foolish enough to agree to such a thing; I’d ask for asylum!), she was probably put to death by slow torture for allowing her female hormones to give the Federation one of the biggest espionage coups of all time (and seriously compromising the Empire’s national security). Watching Spock be seduced by a hard-as-nails Romulan woman dripping with exotic sexuality—THAT would have made for a great story! Not sipping orange soda and doing that touchy-feely finger-stroking thing. (Yes, I know that’s “the Vulcan way,” but it’s still boring as hell to watch!) ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/82 "2015-06-24T05:17:45Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > Other than Nancy Kovack, what is there to like about “A Private Little War”? Well, there’s the arrow… :rolleyes: \* And the wig! Don’t forget the wig! 😃 \*My “innocently looking up at the ceiling” smiley. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/83 "2015-06-24T05:22:39Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > I’ll grant you, Nimoy’s performance in “Incident” was the one good thing about the episode. On the other hand, I’ve never particularly cared for Joanne Linville (except when she was the murderer’s alcoholic wife in an episode of _ **Columbo** _) and thought her character (the unnamed “Romulan Commander”) was both whiny and thoroughly inept. After she was repatriated (assuming she’d be foolish enough to agree to such a thing; I’d ask for asylum!), she was probably put to death by slow torture for allowing her female hormones to give the Federation one of the biggest espionage coups of all time (and seriously compromising the Empire’s national security). > > Watching Spock be seduced by a hard-as-nails Romulan woman dripping with exotic sexuality—THAT would have made for a great story! Not sipping orange soda and doing that touchy-feely finger-stroking thing. (Yes, I know that’s “the Vulcan way,” but it’s still boring as hell to watch!) I liked it anyway, thought it was kinda cool, though like any spy-mission thriller story, the plot has more holes than a Jarlsberg cheese warehouse after a machine-gun battle. If there’s any aspect of “Enterprise Incident” that annoys me, it’s that TNG-era writers seemed to think it established that Vulcans never lie, and used this as an occasional plot point. Even though Spock claims this is true, _he’s lying about everything else, so obviously he’s lying about that, too._ ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/84 "2015-06-24T05:26:56Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > If there’s any aspect of “Enterprise Incident” that annoys me, it’s that TNG-era writers seemed to think it established that Vulcans never lie, and used this as an occasional plot point. Even though Spock claims this is true, _he’s lying about everything else, so obviously he’s lying about that, too._ Like killing people and eating meat, Vulcans can lie when it’s the \*logical \*thing to do. Of course, it probably helped that Spock was half human as well. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/85 "2015-06-24T05:33:00Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > After she was repatriated (assuming she’d be foolish enough to agree to such a thing; I’d ask for asylum!), she was probably put to death by slow torture for allowing her female hormones to give the Federation one of the biggest espionage coups of all time (and seriously compromising the Empire’s national security). I can just imagine some bigwig in the Romulan Senate turning to the guy next to him and saying “See? I \*told \*you it was a bad idea to put a woman in command of a warship!” ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/86 "2015-06-24T06:39:44Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > Actually, I see Q as an example of why I feel that TNG is more coherent. While we still have immortal omnipotent aliens who appear to have minimal effect on the rest of the galaxy, at least they show up in more than one episode, and they do at least threaten to do something that would impact the whole human race. And the nature of Q’s visits makes it impossible to do anything proactive about finding them. A big problem for any series like this is to explain why all the civilizations in the galaxy are close enough technologically to have interesting conflicts. Since the galaxy is old, there should be races millions of years more advanced. In TOS the advanced races mostly want to be left alone, like the Organians, or are invisible in some way, like the “parents” in Charlie X. Q calls attention to this problem a bit much. The other solution is to have all but humans stagnate. How could humans catch up with Vulcans so quickly given that Vulcans have had warp drive for a really long time? ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/87 "2015-06-24T12:31:40Z")
I think they did wank it away in TNG-the “Precursors” who imprinted their DNA onto all humanoid species in that quadrant. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/88 "2015-06-24T13:16:20Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > I think they did wank it away in TNG-the “Precursors” who imprinted their DNA onto all humanoid species in that quadrant. Interesting how they embraced this concept after pretty much rejecting it in “Return to Tomorrow” (for Earth, anyway, but not for Vulcan). ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/89 "2015-06-24T13:52:30Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > I think they did wank it away in TNG-the “Precursors” who imprinted their DNA onto all humanoid species in that quadrant. Interesting… ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/90 "2015-06-24T14:20:07Z")
“The _Enterprise_ Incident” (inspired by the USS _Pueblo_ incident, [USS Pueblo (AGER-2) - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pueblo_incident)) wasn’t the best episode, but it did give us the great line, “Commander, your attire is not only more appropriate [after she changed into something slinky], it should actually stimulate our conversation.” > [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I said “Equally good.” I love the Kirk-Spock-McCoy triad and the retro charm of TOS, but I also love Picard and Data, the all-in-all better stories and better sfx of TNG. Since others have given favorite-episode lists, I will too. TOS “The City on the Edge of Forever” “Amok Time” “Journey to Babel” “Court Martial” “The Conscience of the King” “Shore Leave” “This Side of Paradise” “The Devil in the Dark” “The Trouble with Tribbles” “The Doomsday Machine” TNG “The Best of Both Worlds, Part 1” “Family” “Data’s Day” “Ship in a Bottle” “The Chase” “Parallels” “Cause and Effect” “First Contact” “Darmok” “The First Duty” “The Perfect Mate” “Face of the Enemy” “Tapestry” “Timescape” “Firstborn” “Yesterday’s _Enterprise_” “The Inner Light” “11001001” “All Good Things…” ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/91 "2015-06-24T14:45:47Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > They are too different to compare. TOS has aged better, except in a few sexist places where it’s far worse. Oh man! I watched _Wolf In The Fold_ recently - it’s painful. As ide from Scotty’s apparent enjoyment of a Planet of Women of Easy Virtue (SCOTT: You mean to tell me all these women, that all this is… KIRK: Yes, yes, yes. The Argelians think very highly of their pleasure.) the whole episode relies on the entire senior staff \*actually believing \*Scotty could butcher several women because a woman had the audacity to cause an accident that gave him a little bimp on the noggin. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/92 "2015-06-24T14:53:16Z")
I saw it more as, Scotty might have suffered some brain damage that changed his personality and made him irrationally violent. But yes, TOS could be pretty sexist. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/93 "2015-06-24T15:13:16Z")
Agreed on both counts. I mean, the lights go out for 5 seconds, and Scotty’s holding a bloody dagger. I’d suspect my own grandmother if she was holding a bloody dagger in that short space of time. The moral of _Turnabout Intruder_ is the wimmins can’t run space ships. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/94 "2015-06-24T15:18:07Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Oh man! I watched _Wolf In The Fold_ recently - it’s painful. > > Aside from Scotty’s apparent enjoyment of a Planet of Women of Easy Virtue… > > SCOTT: You mean to tell me all these women, that all this is… > > KIRK: Yes, yes, yes. The Argelians think very highly of their pleasure. What, a planet with a purely hedonistic culture is beyond the realm of possibility? :dubious: 😕 This episode beat the hell out of “Angel One”! ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/95 "2015-06-24T15:19:44Z")
> [@bup](#): > > The moral of _Turnabout Intruder_ is the wimmins can’t run space ships. Well, certainly not whacko murdering-psycho wimmin, anyway! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/96 "2015-06-24T15:28:36Z")
“The City on the Edge of Forever” “Amok Time” “Journey to Babel” “Space Seed” “Errand of Mercy” “Arena” “Tomorrow was Yesterday” “The Devil in the Dark” “The Trouble with Tribbles” “The Doomsday Machine” ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/97 "2015-06-24T15:38:50Z")
Patterns of Force had a nice blooper reel. (saw it at my first Trek con, mid 70s) ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/98 "2015-06-24T15:42:24Z")
This just in came in over subspace radio: > **[5 Horrifying Implications of the 'Star Trek' Universe](https://www.cracked.com/article_20470_5-horrifying-implications-star-trek-universe.html?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=weeklynewsletter)** > > It turns out there are some horrible implications behind all that awesome technology and progressive ideology that are never addressed. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/99 "2015-06-24T15:49:49Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > “The City on the Edge of Forever” > “Amok Time” > “Journey to Babel” > “Space Seed” > “Errand of Mercy” > “Arena” > “Tomorrow was Yesterday” > “The Devil in the Dark” > “The Trouble with Tribbles” > “The Doomsday Machine” Crap! I forgot “Balance of Terror”! :smack: For my top ten, I would have to prefer it to “Tomorrow was Yesterday.” (The above are listed in no particular order, BTW.) ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/100 "2015-06-24T16:10:39Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > I think they did wank it away in TNG-the “Precursors” who imprinted their DNA onto all humanoid species in that quadrant. An episode written by someone with no knowledge of genetics or evolution. Even if they got seeded a long time ago, there was clearly time for all the races to evolve, and thus no reason they’d develop in lockstep. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187.md?page=6)