# Which is better, Star Trek: TOS or Star Trek: TNG? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 22, 2015, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187 "2015-06-22T21:57:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/121 "2015-06-25T08:27:53Z")
Kirk also reminds me of **this guy** : > **[Ernest E. Evans](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernest_E._Evans)** > > Ernest Edwin Evans (August 13, 1908 – October 25, 1944) was an officer of the United States Navy who posthumously received the Medal of Honor for his actions during the Battle off Samar in World War II. > Evans, of Native American ancestry (half Cherokee and one quarter Creek), was born in Pawnee, Oklahoma and graduated from Muskogee Central High School. After one year of enlisted service in the Navy, he was appointed to the United States Naval Academy, entering as a Midshipman on June 29, 1927.... ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/122 "2015-06-25T08:56:15Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > How do we know the modern Navy is the best model? The _TOS_ Enterprise seems more like an exploration/long-range vessel to me, and there the classic model is more apt than a modern Navy - think the _Beagle_ or _Endeavour_, all officers are gentlemen, that style of thing. Yes, Kirk is clearly in charge, but the relationship with McCoy and Spock is not just that of the relative Navy ranks, there’s also strong friendship there. You’d have to have a real stick up your ass to _constantly_ refer to your 2iC as “Number One” rather than by name for a whole five year mission. And I prefer my captains stick-free. Picwrd calls Riker “Will” with some frequency. “Number One” is a nickname no less than “Bones.” ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/123 "2015-06-25T09:37:34Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Picwrd calls Riker “Will” with some frequency. Maybe this got better over the seasons, it certainly wasn’t my impression. > [@](#): > > “Number One” is a nickname no less than “Bones.” Naah, one’s a reinforcement of hierarchal relationships, it’s a title not a nickname. The other’s an occupational nickname. McCoy will always be ‘Bones’ to Kirk, wherever he goes, Riker is only “No 1” to Picard as long as he’s Picard’s 2inC. It’s not a _warm_ nickname (and wasn’t when it was used in _The Cage_, either) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/124 "2015-06-25T15:16:47Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Crap! I forgot “Balance of Terror”! :smack: … Crap! And I forgot “Mirror, Mirror”! ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/125 "2015-06-25T15:24:41Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Crap! And I forgot “Mirror, Mirror”! We both did. It would have to tie with one of my other ten, though. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/126 "2015-06-25T15:58:46Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Maybe this got better over the seasons, it certainly wasn’t my impression.Naah, one’s a reinforcement of hierarchal relationships, it’s a title not a nickname. The other’s an occupational nickname. McCoy will always be ‘Bones’ to Kirk, wherever he goes, Riker is only “No 1” to Picard as long as he’s Picard’s 2inC. It’s not a _warm_ nickname (and wasn’t when it was used in _The Cage_, either) Hierarchal relationships are not necessarily a bad thing, especially in a job when the senior may well have to order the juniors to go off and get killed for the welfare of third parties. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/127 "2015-06-25T17:30:06Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > TNG was better. It had Wesley, Data, Barkley and Q. Nuff said. Those 4 would make a great Marvel movie. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/128 "2015-06-25T17:50:42Z")
Kirk and Picard are both great characters. Kirk is like the older brother you respect and look up to but Picard is like the Dad you try to be like some day. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/129 "2015-06-25T19:49:42Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Hierarchal relationships are not necessarily a bad thing No, they’re not. But non-hierarchical ones aren’t any less _realistic_ (where this started) and, for me, are less fun to watch than friendship-based ones. Hence, I prefer Kirk’s interactions with his 2 buddies to Picard’s with his underlings. ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/130 "2015-06-25T20:06:46Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Maybe this got better over the seasons, it certainly wasn’t my impression.Naah, one’s a reinforcement of hierarchal relationships, it’s a title not a nickname. The other’s an occupational nickname. McCoy will always be ‘Bones’ to Kirk, wherever he goes, Riker is only “No 1” to Picard as long as he’s Picard’s 2inC. It’s not a _warm_ nickname (and wasn’t when it was used in _The Cage_, either) I’m not sure I entirely agree. While it does refer to the command structure, it is not technically a title. “First Officer” or maybe “XO” would be titles. The way Picard uses it “Number One” seems formal yet informal at the same time. I also recall the episode when he was stuck in a turbo lift with the children. It’s use there was certainly affectionate: PICARD: Your name is Marissa. Is that right? Well, Marissa, I’m going to need a first officer to help me. You’re the oldest and so that makes you my Number One. MARISSA: Number One? PICARD: That’s what I always called my first officer. I’d say that it’s a blending of affection and stick-up-one’s-butt formality and stick-up-one’s-butt formality. 😃 More info here (including its use in _The Cage_): [Number one | Memory Alpha | Fandom](http://en.memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Number_one) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/131 "2015-06-25T20:34:55Z")
> [@standingwave](#): > > It’s use there was certainly affectionate: Huh, I had the impression the use there was to make the children feel important so they wouldn’t be all childish and distracting. Also, that Picard would have preferred not to be riding in the turbolift with them in the first place because children suck. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/132 "2015-06-25T21:35:42Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > No, they’re not. But non-hierarchical ones aren’t any less _realistic_ (where this started) and, for me, are less fun to watch than friendship-based ones. Hence, I prefer Kirk’s interactions with his 2 buddies to Picard’s with his underlings. His TWO buddies. During the series, Kirk was friends with Spock and McCoy, and to a lesser extent Scott; not so much Sulu, Uhura, Chekov, Chapel, and Rand. Similarly, Picard was genuinely friends was Beverly and Data, but not so much Riker and Sort and LaForge; Worf was friends with Riker more than with Data; Troi and Beverly were.besties, but neither were.close to LaForge; etc. Life’s like that. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/133 "2015-06-25T21:55:36Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > His TWO buddies. During the series, Kirk was friends with Spock and McCoy, and to a lesser extent Scott; not so much Sulu, Uhura, Chekov, Chapel, and Rand. Similarly, Picard was genuinely friends was Beverly and Data, but not so much Riker and Sort and LaForge; Worf was friends with Riker more than with Data; Troi and Beverly were.besties, but neither were.close to LaForge; etc. Life’s like that. Friends with Data? More like father figure to Data. Friend (without benefits) to Beverly true. Kirk would have been playing poker with the crew well before the final episode of the series. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/134 "2015-06-25T21:56:51Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > In terms of today’s highly regulated (and relatively staid) navies, the Picard/Riker duo is closer to reality. Kirk always reminds me of the motto of the Israeli Army Officer Corps: “Follow me!” I’d probably want to serve under Picard, it is safer. I’d much rather watch Kirk. It’s more fun. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/135 "2015-06-25T22:42:01Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Picwrd calls Riker “Will” with some frequency. “Number One” is a nickname no less than “Bones.” > [@MrDibble](#): > > Maybe this got better over the seasons, it certainly wasn’t my impression.Naah, one’s a reinforcement of hierarchal relationships, it’s a title not a nickname. The other’s an occupational nickname. McCoy will always be ‘Bones’ to Kirk, wherever he goes, Riker is only “No 1” to Picard as long as he’s Picard’s 2inC. It’s not a _warm_ nickname (and wasn’t when it was used in _The Cage_, either) And even though Picard called Riker “Will,” it was never the other way around. Beverly was the only officer who called Picard Jean-Luc. At least Spock and Bones both felt comfortable enough around Kirk to call him “Jim.” ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/136 "2015-06-25T22:47:37Z")
Heck, if the alternate future presented in the TNG final episode is any guide, even 25 years in the future, LaForge won’t be calling Picard by his first name until told it’s okay. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/137 "2015-06-26T05:51:34Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > An episode written by someone with no knowledge of genetics or evolution. Even if they got seeded a long time ago, there was clearly time for all the races to evolve, and thus no reason they’d develop in lockstep. With the way that show handled genetics and evolution, I think we just have to accept that this is an alternate universe where it does really work that way. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/138 "2015-06-26T06:24:49Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > With the way that show handled genetics and evolution, I think we just have to accept that this is an alternate universe where it does really work that way. Not only that, it’s one where the dead are regularly brought back to life. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2015, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/139 "2015-06-27T00:09:30Z")
I mulled it over and I have to go with TOS. There were simply too many moments in TNG where I felt lectured, condescended to and/or preached at. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2015, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187/140 "2015-06-27T01:16:09Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > not only that, it’s one where the dead are regularly brought back to life. NCC-1701-Z good grief, wouldn’t let me post that as all caps even with the quote. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-better-star-trek-tos-or-star-trek-tng/723187.md?page=6)