# Which is easier **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 2, 2011, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-easier/580501 "2011-05-02T18:51:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BarryB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@BarryB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarryB)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-easier/580501/21 "2011-05-19T00:01:53Z")
[This page](http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2009/3/17/795946/optimizing-your-lineup-by) lays out a sabermetric batting order quite well. The big difference from the “traditional” batting order is to ignore base stealing altogether for your leadoff (why would you risk a guy on base by stealing bases with your best sluggers coming up right behind you?), the traditional #3 should bat #2, and the #3 is about as important as #5 but with greater relative value from home runs and less from OBP. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-easier/580501/22 "2011-05-19T04:08:52Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > I believe the result **Jeff** is referring to isn’t that it doesn’t matter at all, but that any non-idiotic order is not going to be much below the optimal. . . Bill James once wrote about a computer simulation he did with an extremely unbalanced batting order, using the stats of Babe Ruth and a bunch of stiffs. The number of runs didn’t change much regardless of where he placed Ruth. I wish I could remember the name of the book this was in. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-easier/580501/23 "2011-05-19T06:45:11Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I think that baseball teams put their best slugger at #4 in the order in the hopes of a grand slam, no? Not that it makes much difference, over the course of a game: The folks earlier in the order will get at most one more at-bat than the others, and the lineup is probably going to end up different for each inning. In traditional baseball, and modern National League baseball, the pitcher in the #9 spot is more likely to be the third out than other positions in the line up. So an inning will start with the #1 spot, the lead-off man, more often than random selection. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-easier/580501/24 "2011-05-19T08:03:48Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > What’s the pitcher (or bowler, I think they’re called?) doing? He’s trying to knock over the wicket. Not exactly. The bowler could be going for an LBW, or caught behind etc. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-easier/580501/25 "2011-05-19T09:51:43Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > Not exactly. The bowler could be going for an LBW, or caught behind etc. and indeed, there are 11 ways in which a batsman can be given “out” > **[Dismissal (cricket)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dismissal_(cricket))** > > In cricket, a dismissal occurs when a batsman's innings is brought to an end by the opposing team. Other terms used are the batsman being out, the batting side losing a wicket, and the fielding side (and often the bowler) taking a wicket. The ball becomes dead (meaning that no further runs can be scored off that delivery), and the dismissed batsman must leave the field of play for the rest of their team's innings, to be replaced by a team-mate. A team's innings ends if ten of the eleven team m... ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-easier/580501/26 "2011-05-19T10:05:06Z")
But most of them are unrelated to what \*\*Chronos \*\*was talking about, which was what the bowler is trying to do. I think LBW counts as “trying to knock over the wicket”, so that just leaves **Isamu** ’s other point, which is that the bowler is sometimes trying to lure the batsman into being caught, rather than aiming for the wicket. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-easier/580501/27 "2011-05-19T10:37:35Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > But most of them are unrelated to what \*\*Chronos \*\*was talking about, which was what the bowler is trying to do. I think LBW counts as “trying to knock over the wicket”, so that just leaves **Isamu** ’s other point, which is that the bowler is sometimes trying to lure the batsman into being caught, rather than aiming for the wicket. I’d disagree that that is the main aim of the bowler. They are trying to “take” the wicket but I’d suggest the majority of the time the bowler is trying to entice the batsman into a catch, rather than trying to knock the wicket over. back-of-the-fag-packet calculation here…in the last Ashes series in Australia, of the 147 wickets that fell, only 27 hit the wicket, 15 were lbw and 99 were catches. Certainly some of those catches would be come as a result of the batsmen defending his wicket but I suspect most of the wicket taking balls were not directed at the wicket itself (and some of those those that did hit the wicket will have come as a result of the the batsmen “playing on”) ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-easier/580501/28 "2011-05-19T21:02:25Z")
Going back to the OP, I think it’s easier to explain cricket to an American rather than baseball to an Englishman. In my opinion you can explain most of cricket’s differences in a negative manner - taking away bases, foul zones, requirement to run/forceouts etc. Whereas going the other way adds complexity. Take for example the rules about running between the wickets/base running. (apologies for errors in the baseball section - I’m from a cricket-playing nation) **Cricket** - At any time after the ball is bowled the batsmen may attempt to run. If one of the wickets are broken when the nearest batsman has not reached the crease then that batsman is out. If the ball is caught the striker is out and the non-striker stays put. As they ball is dead as soon as the catch is taken there are no double plays. **Baseball** - At any time after the pitcher receives the ball a base runner can attempt to run to the next base. The runner is out if tagged by a fielder holding the ball while the runner isn’t standing on the base. If the batter hits the ball they must run to first base. A runner already on first base at this time must run to second base and so on (forced run). Runners making a forced run are out if a fielder stands on the base they are running to while holding the ball. If a ball is caught all base runners must retuen to the base they started from. The ball remains live and the fielding team may make multiple outs by tagging runners/standing on the appropriate bases… (Already twice as long as the cricket explanation and I thankfully haven’t even got to the infield-fly rule). ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-easier/580501/29 "2011-05-19T21:26:32Z")
> [@](#): > > (Already twice as long as the cricket explanation and I thankfully haven’t even got to the infield-fly rule). To be fair, the infield-fly rule mostly only comes up as an example of how complicated baseball rules are. It’s like words like “syzygy” or “cwm” that show up in Hangman, but almost never in actual use. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-easier/580501/30 "2011-05-19T22:09:38Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > To be fair, the infield-fly rule mostly only comes up as an example of how complicated baseball rules are. It’s like words like “syzygy” or “cwm” that show up in Hangman, but almost never in actual use. Well, it’s not quite _that_ rare. I don’t know the exact stats, but I’ve been to several games where the rule was invoked, and when we played pick-up baseball, we’d invoke it, too, otherwise you’d have infielders dropping the ball to force double plays way too often (and when we were kids, there were lots of infield flies, and lots of first-and-second or bases loaded situations with less than two outs.) ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-easier/580501/31 "2011-05-19T22:36:17Z")
> [@lisiate](#): > > 2% seems significant to me, at least worth thinking about anyway. How many runs does a team get in a season? 500-600 odd? Another 10-12 runs a season would be worth a win or two wouldn’t it? Yes, the study I saw (I think it was from Baseball Prospectus) showed that for a typical team the difference between the best and worst possible lineups after simulation was something on the order of 1-2 wins. However, almost no manager would use their worst possible lineup, and the differences between plausible lineups are quite a bit smaller. The article that **Jeff** linked, for example, claimed that the difference between the pitcher 8th and 9th is about 2 runs per season. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-easier/580501/32 "2011-05-20T01:50:35Z")
I know only a little about cricket, but I have a lot of experience explaining baseball to people from cricket-playing countries. I generally tell these people not to try to apply their knowledge of cricket to baseball. The two games look more similar than they are. If you try to understand baseball as a variant of cricket, you’re left wondering why the batter sometimes lets pitches go by without swinging, why the batter and baserunners run at some times and not at other times, why the fielders position themselves the way they do, and so on. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-easier/580501/33 "2011-05-20T08:45:56Z")
> [@lisiate](#): > > Going back to the OP, I think it’s easier to explain cricket to an American rather than baseball to an Englishman. In my opinion you can explain most of cricket’s differences in a negative manner - taking away bases, foul zones, requirement to run/forceouts etc. Whereas going the other way adds complexity. That sounds reasonable lisiate. My feeling has always been that baseball has intricate rules but a simple strategy, Cricket has simpler rules but a more intricate strategy (and most of that due to the length of a test match, differences in bowlers and pitches and the physical toll on players, pitch and ball) ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-easier/580501/34 "2011-05-20T13:47:48Z")
Baseball is easier to explain. There bases and balls. Where’s the cricket? ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-easier/580501/35 "2011-05-20T23:25:55Z")
… in cricket there are no balls. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-easier/580501/36 "2011-05-21T00:23:02Z")
> [@](#): > > Baseball is easier to explain. There bases and balls. Where’s the cricket? Inside a thick dust nebula that blocks view of the stars. ---
**Author:** ![Phatzo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/da6949/32.png) [@Phatzo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phatzo)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-easier/580501/37 "2011-06-01T05:47:45Z")
> [@penultima\_thule](#): > > … in cricket there are no balls. except No Balls, thats the only one I can think of for now. Edit: and balls faced or bowled i.e. 127 of 150 balls or 4/166 four wickets for 166 balls ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-easier/580501/38 "2011-06-02T16:32:36Z")
Still looking for the cricket. Any explanation for that? ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-easier/580501/39 "2011-06-02T17:19:22Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > I suppose it’s not that different from the baseball practice of playing the same opponenet several times in succession during the regular season, something that does not happen in our sports unless the two teams coincidentally play each other in different competitions, as in the case of Manchester City vs. Stoke (FA Cup final on Saturday, and playing each other in the league tomorrow). > > Incidentally, just looking at the MLB schedules, I strikes me how full the baseball calendar is. The Indians, for example, are playing on 27 out of 30 days in June, including a stretch of 13 successive days! I hadn’t realised that the play almost every day. Though of course cricket is like American sports in that it has test series i.e. 5 (up to) 5 day games played in quick succession. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-easier/580501.md?page=1)