# Which is grammatically correct? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 30, 2004, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-grammatically-correct/257527 "2004-07-30T00:54:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2004, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-grammatically-correct/257527/1 "2004-07-30T00:54:06Z")
1. " We are enjoying a summertime of relentless rain, and a few really nice days. With all of that rain comes terrific fruits". 2. “We are enjoying a summertime of relentless rain, and a few really nice days. With all of the rains comes terrific fruit”. 3. “We are enjoying a summertime of relentless rain, and a few really nice days. With all of that rains come terrific fruits”. This is from a note I just wrote to an Uncle. ( Not Cecil. 😛 ). It’s just driving me bonkers. Which is correct? I used # 1 in the note, but none of these feel correct. ( Or, heh…none of this feels correct ) Cartooniverse ---
**Author:** ![Mandarax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Mandarax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mandarax)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2004, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-grammatically-correct/257527/2 "2004-07-30T00:56:23Z")
#3 is correct. “Fruits” is the subject of the last sentence. ---
**Author:** ![Mandarax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Mandarax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mandarax)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2004, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-grammatically-correct/257527/3 "2004-07-30T00:58:00Z")
Actually, the answer is “none of the above.” It should be “with all of that rain come terrific fruits.” I assume that’s what you meant by #3. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2004, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-grammatically-correct/257527/4 "2004-07-30T01:01:56Z")
I think that your main question was subject / verb agreement in terms of plurals. In that case I believe that both #1 and #2 are technically correct, although I prefer the second. **Mandarax** seemed to disagree with you starting the second sentence “With…” that seems to make it a dependent clause (although that’s more the way most people speak). So a different construct might be “Fruit comes with all of that rain.” Or just append the clause to the previous sentence as previously suggested. ---
**Author:** ![Mandarax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Mandarax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mandarax)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2004, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-grammatically-correct/257527/5 "2004-07-30T01:10:59Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > I think that your main question was subject / verb agreement in terms of plurals. In that case I believe that both #1 and #2 are technically correct, although I prefer the second. > > **Mandarax** seemed to disagree with you starting the second sentence “With…” that seems to make it a dependent clause (although that’s more the way most people speak). So a different construct might be “Fruit comes with all of that rain.” Or just append the clause to the previous sentence as previously suggested. Actually, I think that #2 and #3 are correct (except for “that rains” in #3, which I assume was a typo). I didn’t read #2 carefully enough to notice that the subject was changed from “fruits” to “fruit.” There is no dependent clause involved; “with all of the/that rain/s” is an adverbial prepositional phrase. “Fruit” or “fruits” is the subject, and the correct form is “fruit comes” or “fruits come.” ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2004, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-grammatically-correct/257527/6 "2004-07-30T01:16:42Z")
What is your objection to the first construct then? ---
**Author:** ![Mandarax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Mandarax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mandarax)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2004, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-grammatically-correct/257527/7 "2004-07-30T01:27:09Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > What is your objection to the first construct then? “Comes” is not the proper verb form for “fruits.” Move the prepositional phrase to the end to get the more common word order: #1: Terrific fruits comes with all of that rain. #2: Terrific fruit comes with all of the rains. #3: Terrific fruits come with all of that rains. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2004, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-grammatically-correct/257527/8 "2004-07-30T01:42:05Z")
Number two would be correct, if you moved the period. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Joe\_Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Random)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2004, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-grammatically-correct/257527/9 "2004-07-30T02:01:55Z")
The correct phrasing would be any combination that contains the following word pairs: “the rains” or “that rain”, but not “that rains”. (You _could_, however, use “those rains”) “comes / fruit” or “come / fruits”, but not “comes / fruits” or “come / fruit”. So valid phrasings would be: “With all of that rain come terrific fruits.” (This one sounds odd to me, but I can’t see how it’s grammatically incorrect). “With all of that rain comes terrific fruit.” “With all of the rains come terrific fruits.” and “With all of the rains comes terrific fruit.” ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2004, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-grammatically-correct/257527/10 "2004-07-30T02:05:16Z")
I can’t get past your first sentence. No comma is needed in that sentence. The only time a comma is used before “and” is in a sequence of more than two. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2004, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-grammatically-correct/257527/11 "2004-07-30T02:28:11Z")
The comma is perfectly acceptable in dialogue or informal writing, like a personal letter. You should strike it out, however, in an English Master’s thesis. ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2004, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-grammatically-correct/257527/12 "2004-07-30T02:45:03Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > The comma is perfectly acceptable in dialogue or informal writing, like a personal letter. You should strike it out, however, in an English Master’s thesis. Bullshit. In dialogue do you say “comma”? ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2004, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-grammatically-correct/257527/13 "2004-07-30T03:44:38Z")
Um. I have a problem with commas. I do. I sprinkle them throughout my writing the way 8 year olds sprinkle jimmies on a soft twisted cone in the summertime. I agree that the comma in #1 is superfluous. My apologies. The rest of this is riveting. You have **no clue** how hard it was to compose this post without using a single comma. Please carry on as you have been. 😃 Toons ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2004, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-grammatically-correct/257527/14 "2004-07-30T03:52:12Z")
> [@barbitu8](#): > > Bullshit. In dialogue do you say “comma”? You’re being pedantic and applying the rigid rules of formal, written English to spoken dialogue. Few things in English are more open to interpretation than the comma–well, ok, the dash–and it’s perfectly acceptable to use a comma to denote the rhythm of speech in dialogue. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2004, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-grammatically-correct/257527/15 "2004-07-30T03:56:04Z")
“It is summer. See it rain. Rain, summer, rain. Oh, look! Fruit!” 😃 He’s your uncle…he’ll understand. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2004, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-grammatically-correct/257527/16 "2004-07-30T04:01:59Z")
> [@barbitu8](#): > > I can’t get past your first sentence. No comma is needed in that sentence. The only time a comma is used before “and” is in a sequence of more than two. I’m half with you. I don’t like the comma there, and I think it interrupts the flow of the sentence. It’s not necessarily wrong, but I think most editors would strike it, especially give the current trend towards “open” (less use of commas) punctuation. Grammatically, it is not needed. But, if the writer wants to create a pause in the sentence, it’s okay. Your rule about commas only being used before “and” in a sequence of more than two is wrong. It’s also used with independent clauses. For example, no comma should be used with the following dependent clauses: _Bill went to the store and bought some apples._ However, you should use it when connecting independent clauses: _Bill went to the store, and Mary stayed at home to prepare the cake._ However, if the independent clause is short, you may omit the comma: _Bill went to the store and Mary cooked._ ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2004, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-grammatically-correct/257527/17 "2004-07-30T04:09:09Z")
All are. They are all understandable as to meaning. They all sound somewhat akward. Joe’s ““With all of that rain comes terrific fruit.”” sounds the least cumbersome There is no “Board of Grammar” to make a ruling. Even the more common grammar sources disagree considerably. All it has to do is not sound stupid and be understandable. I’d say “We’re enjoying a summertime of relentless rain, but all that rain will produce a terrific fruit harvest. We’ve also had a few really nice days, however.” You could put a “-” in place of the comma in the first sentance. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2004, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-grammatically-correct/257527/18 "2004-07-30T14:10:32Z")
**DrDeth** – I’m pretty flexible on grammar and language issues, but the OP is asking about what is grammatically correct, and there is factual basis to the answer. In the first sentence, _all_ grammar books and style guides would point out the subject-verb agreement error in the second sentence. “With all of that rain comes terrific fruits,” is absolutely incorrect. It’s either “come” or “fruit,” but not “comes fruits.” There is no grey area here. With sentence three, it’s either “those rains,” or “that rain,” not “that rains.” Once again, no grey area. Every grammararian will agree on this. The comma can be argued — it’s a stylistic point. If the OP intends what follows the comma to act as an afterthought, then it’s okay. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2004, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-grammatically-correct/257527/19 "2004-07-30T14:23:13Z")
I lean towards liking the comma in the first sentence. If it’s there, it certainly causes no significant problems with understanding. Nor does it contrast so obviously with grammar rules that it distracts or slows the reader. So the question is, does it add anything to the message of the sentence? And I think it could. It depends on how the writer wants to present the nice days. Presenting the nice days as an equal part of the summer along with the rainy days requires no comma. But a comma would help shift the focus of the sentence on to the rainy days, and keep the nice days as just a contrast. [Poor attempt to show the point in the last two sentences]. And since the next sentence is indeed about the rain, I think the comma serves a good purpose here. Of course, we don’t know what the writer was trying to do, especially without any more of the text (God I sound like an academic critic, don’t I?), but just going on the two sentences, I like the original better than Dr Deths’ recasting (no offense, DD). As Dennis Miller used to say though, that’s just my opinion; I could be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2004, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-grammatically-correct/257527/20 "2004-07-30T14:24:15Z")
If the OP desired a pause, then a dash should’ve been used. I realize that the dash should not be used indiscriminately, but this would be a good occasion. Personally, I usually would prefer a new sentence beginning with “And,” but here a dash seems more appropriate. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-grammatically-correct/257527.md?page=2)