# Which is more politically correct - "Asian" or "Oriental"? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 2, 2005, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-more-politically-correct-asian-or-oriental/333827 "2005-12-02T22:49:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2005, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-more-politically-correct-asian-or-oriental/333827/41 "2005-12-04T16:13:33Z")
> [@HNC](#): > > Asian is unspecific? Where, exactly, is the Orient? Asia is at least a specific continent - the Orient is more of a concept than an actual geographic location. Yeah, but you see my point. Asia is a specific continenet, but people use the word “asian” to mean someone from a specific part of that continent, hence the confusion. A person from siberia is technically asian, but we don’t often use the word like that. > [@HNC](#): > > I understand the term isn’t always used in a racist context, but the fact remains that many Asians feel it is insulting. If a certain group feels that a specific term is an insulting way to address them, then maybe the use of said term should be dropped. Not really a problem, if people start glaring at me when I use oriental then I’m sure I’ll switch to using east asian. My problem is that, unlike words like niggar or spick (sp?) oriental was never ment to be an insult. It seems rather bizarre that a bunch of people would up and decide it’s offensive, when the people using it never ment it that way. > [@ChinaGuy](#): > > there are many threads on this. long story short, oriental was originally a colonial word, and inherently neutral to negative. a lot of people from Asia in the US perfer to be addressed as asian rather than oriental. more preferably by their actual ethnic group. for example, you want to make my wife happy you call her shanghaiese or even better ningboese. miss manners would say call people by their preferred form of address. When I know someone well enough to actually know what specific country their from, then I’d use that. I usually just use oriental if I need to give someone a quick physical description of the person. If your looking for your wife in a crowd, I’m sure you don’t ask if anyone has seen a Ningboese (which I can’t even find in the dictionary) women. > [@kimera](#): > > In my experience, I’ve found that people who use the term “Oriental” tend to be racist or have some other serious flaw. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2005, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-more-politically-correct-asian-or-oriental/333827/42 "2005-12-04T16:18:02Z")
> [@Rodgers01](#): > > Asian-American is a good alternative. Of course, once they get to know your wife better and are told her heritage, that’s a different matter. Again the problem is that I don’t necessarily know if someone is an Asian-American. In college there were a lot of asians that came to study here, but weren’t necessarily Americans. I have the same problem with African-Americans, as there were a lot of Africans who were only there to attend college for a few years, and I felt silly calling them African Americans. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2005, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-more-politically-correct-asian-or-oriental/333827/43 "2005-12-04T17:18:04Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > By the way, she’s not from the Orient. She’s from Cleveland. Eh, Cleveland is pretty far east from where I’m sitting. The department has lots of students from India, China, and Japan, with Indians and Chinese predominating in non-American students. Other countries are represented (Israel, Thailand come to mind) but generally if someone isn’t from the US they’re from one of the three countries listed above. And I’ve never been good at telling the difference between lots of ethnicites and nationalities visually. If I hear the language I can make a better guess, even more so with the written word. If someone tells me their name I can take a shot at their nationality/ethnicity and generally be right. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2005, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-more-politically-correct-asian-or-oriental/333827/44 "2005-12-04T19:31:51Z")
I think it depends if the person is born in North America vs. China or Japan or Korea. My sister in law is Japanese, born, raised, etc - moved to Canada 10 years ago. When I asked her about the whole “Oriental is offensive” thing she rolled her eyes and told me not to be absurd - it’s not in the least bit offensive. On the other hand, a girlfriend of mine is born in Canada from Chinese parents, and she thinks Oriental is a bit dodgie. However, she also said if the person using it seemed to be using it in a non-offensive way, she wouldn’t be bothered. YMMV and all that. ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2005, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-more-politically-correct-asian-or-oriental/333827/45 "2005-12-04T20:05:50Z")
> [@alice\_in\_wonderland](#): > > I think it depends if the person is born in North America vs. China or Japan or Korea. Maybe that’s it. My gf is from Vietnam, and she wasn’t aware oriental was supposed to be offensive, which is why this thread caught me by suprise. > [@](#): > > However, she also said if the person using it seemed to be using it in a non-offensive way, she wouldn’t be bothered. How do you use it in an offensive way? Again, I’ve never heard “oriental” used as an insult. ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-more-politically-correct-asian-or-oriental/333827/46 "2005-12-05T00:48:45Z")
> [@Malodorous](#): > > How do you use it in an offensive way? Again, I’ve never heard “oriental” used as an insult. It is rarely used as an overt insult. Certainly nothing as obvious or offensive as words such as nigger or chink. And I agree that those brought up in American culture are more likely to percieve it in a negative light - the US being so PC conscious these past few decades and all. I’ll say this again: the Orient is not a specific geographical location. It is a concept. What countries are included in the Orient? What decides whether or not a country is part of the so-called Orient? Nobody really has a list of specific countries in mind when they use the word Orient. They have a certain image - of chopsticks, of silk robes, of carpets, etc. One of the main reasons that Oriental is considered an offensive term is that it carries with it all these conotations, even if the user is not consciously aware of it. It’s like a stereotype, and one that many Asian-Americans are particularly resentful of. Granted, this “awareness” of Oriental being a negative term is relatively new. I don’t feel insulted if the person using the term is not doing it in an offensive way, but I’d rather they didn’t, is all. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-more-politically-correct-asian-or-oriental/333827/47 "2005-12-05T01:26:00Z")
> [@Wolfian](#): > > **Malodorous** , buddy, where’ve you been? > The term is [Asian-American](http://stlyrics.com/lyrics/avenueq/everyonesalittlebitracist.htm). Most “Orientals” are not American. In fact, only a miniscule fraction of them are. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-more-politically-correct-asian-or-oriental/333827/48 "2005-12-05T02:41:18Z")
> [@Wolfian](#): > > **kunilow** , aren’t the Maygars a specific ethnic group in Hungary? I thought the majority were ethnicly German. I maybe I’m thinking about Austria. Actually, they’re the specific ethnic group everyone thinks of when they think of “Hungarian.” The Magyars were the ones with the original non-Indo-European language and the ones who don’t fit into the category of either Slavs or Germans. As a good guide, take a look at a history book that shows the large chunks of the eastern part of the Austro-Hungarian empire that went to countries like Romania and Poland. See the small blob that’s left? That’s the Magyars. ---
**Author:** ![NormalDude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7993a0/32.png) [@NormalDude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NormalDude)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-more-politically-correct-asian-or-oriental/333827/49 "2013-02-16T06:21:01Z")
> [@Stainz](#): > > Our dog has a thing about some men - specifically she hates Japanese, Chinese, Korean men - might be the dark hair, we’re not sure. So I would say that she hates “Asian” men. A friend would say the dog hates “Oriental” men. > > Is one term more p/c than the other? I would hate to be offending anyone … > > Thank you, > S. While no normal person would want to offend anybody, why would anybody “want” to be a shallow koolaid drinker…er, I mean worship pc foolishness? Now, on to the topic of discussion: I much prefer the term “Oriental” for _eastern_ asians because it merely means eastern, and is far more accurate than citing a huge continent that begins in Istanbul Turkey. When I was in 3rd grade, my teacher visited South America, and the South Americans were insulted because she, being from the USA referred to herself as being American. They felt, “what are we, chopped liver?” “We are also American!” How do you think an Indian or a Saudi might feel about this mistake of PC-ism we have made in the USA? There isn’t and never was anything wrong with the term “Oriental.”:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![NormalDude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7993a0/32.png) [@NormalDude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NormalDude)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-more-politically-correct-asian-or-oriental/333827/50 "2013-02-16T06:30:06Z")
> [@TheLoadedDog](#): > > Use Asian. There is nothing technically wrong with “Oriental” - it just means _eastern_, but it is considered a bit racist these days. Just like there’s nothing technically wrong with “Negro” but you wouldn’t use it. Tell that to the United Negro College Fund and my PROUDLY Oriental girlfriend. Words are just words and mature people need to grow up. ---
**Author:** ![NormalDude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7993a0/32.png) [@NormalDude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NormalDude)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-more-politically-correct-asian-or-oriental/333827/51 "2013-02-16T06:35:19Z")
> [@YaWanna](#): > > Yeah, the first time I heard that, my mind went “WTF?” - I’d been taught that the Indian people are not the same “race” as the Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Mongolians, SE Asians, etc. I always thought of them as the same “race” as me (a whitey from Nordic descent). I just call Indian people…“Indian.” I was even more confused when I heard that some (ignorant) people consider Indian people…black. > > Oh, well. I’m not out to insult anyone, at least not on the basis of their skin color, ethnic group, etc. When I heard that “Oriental” was offensive, I stopped using it. Just to set you straight here, none of this has anything to do with race, just geographical origin. There is nothing offensive about the term oriental. Way too many folks have drunk the koolaid. ---
**Author:** ![NormalDude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7993a0/32.png) [@NormalDude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NormalDude)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-more-politically-correct-asian-or-oriental/333827/52 "2013-02-16T06:41:31Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > The trouble with identifying their country of origin is that you have to be able to differentiate between the Chinese, Korean, Japanese, etc. I certainly can’t, so I use Asian if I need to describe someone’s race. Better, I think, than using “Chinese” as a catchall. Once again it isn’t about RACE unless one is a racist. Oriental is more accurate. A Turk is Asian too. Equating eastern asians, a/k/a orientals with the generic term of “asian” is wrong and can be seen as racist if you really think about it. Problem with modern day USA is people don’t THINK before drinking the left wing koolaid ---
**Author:** ![NormalDude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7993a0/32.png) [@NormalDude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NormalDude)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-more-politically-correct-asian-or-oriental/333827/53 "2013-02-16T06:48:49Z")
> [@kimera](#): > > In my experience, I’ve found that people who use the term “Oriental” tend to be racist or have some other serious flaw. I’m sure there are well-meaning, nice people who use it that way, I’ve just never met any. Futhermore, most of my asian friends don’t like it, saying that a thing is oriental, a person is asian. Hey, if we are going to generalize the HUGE continent of Asia we may as well expand it to the entire globe and just refer to everybody as “Earthian” I prefer to be specific; the term “asian” is certainly not! ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-more-politically-correct-asian-or-oriental/333827/54 "2013-02-16T06:53:00Z")
> [@NormalDude](#): > > Once again it isn’t about RACE unless one is a racist. Oriental is more accurate. A Turk is Asian too. Equating eastern asians, a/k/a orientals with the generic term of “asian” is wrong and can be seen as racist if you really think about it. > > Problem with modern day USA is people don’t THINK before drinking the left wing koolaid Still “Oriental” is less preferred. I generally use “Southeast Asian”, if for no reason other than it gets confusing when people from different cultures are using different regional variations of who “Asian” refers to. (I’m actually not sure what a far eastern Russian looks like, maybe I should use use “East Asian”? Are far east Russians appreciably different looking from, say, Mongolian people?) ---
**Author:** ![NormalDude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7993a0/32.png) [@NormalDude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NormalDude)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-more-politically-correct-asian-or-oriental/333827/55 "2013-02-16T06:59:39Z")
> [@Dorjan](#): > > According to my wife (Chinese) using the term “Oriental” is like referring to black people as “Colored”. While not racist, quite out of date and indicative that the user is probably clueless. She gets a bit miffed when she hears the term. > > What really gets her going is the way people tend to lump all Asians together, as if they are one big homogenous ethnic group. She hates the term “Asian-American”. She is Chinese-Canadian! Maybe wifey needs a Xanax. Being more specific as to which part of Asia does the opposite of lumping people together. Referring to Orientals as Asians pretends there is nobody living west of the Himalayas all the way to the Bosporus. How insulting to all those people living on a “ghost continent.” Curious how other things come full circle. “Colored” is a benign word, certainly more benign than black. Yet it is shunned, while adding a noun and a preposition makes it the current favorite: “People of color” When will we wise up and stop acting like children with these silly word games? PC is for pinheads…sorry but true. ---
**Author:** ![NormalDude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7993a0/32.png) [@NormalDude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NormalDude)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-more-politically-correct-asian-or-oriental/333827/56 "2013-02-16T07:06:05Z")
> [@HazelNutCoffee](#): > > Oriental just has so many negative connotations, as has already been mentioned: exotic spices, submissive women, crazy carpets… (heh). Although I never really minded the term until I started studying literary theory in univeristy. Said’s Orientalism is an interesting read, if you’re really into the subject. > > If I had to choose, I’d rather be called Asian. Or Korean-American. :: shrug :: Within Asia itself, it gets a bit tricky - Koreans hate to be mistaken for Chinese or Japanese, although for different reasons, and most East Asians would take offense at being called Southeast Asians, I suppose. Bottom line seems to be that too many people get offended over a whole lot of nothing and need to grow up already. ---
**Author:** ![NormalDude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7993a0/32.png) [@NormalDude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NormalDude)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-more-politically-correct-asian-or-oriental/333827/57 "2013-02-16T07:14:19Z")
> [@HazelNutCoffee](#): > > _Asian_ is unspecific? Where, exactly, is the Orient? Asia is at least a specific continent - the Orient is more of a concept than an actual geographic location. > > I understand the term isn’t always used in a racist context, but the fact remains that many Asians feel it is insulting. If a certain group feels that a specific term is an insulting way to address them, then maybe the use of said term should be dropped. Disagree with ya Hazel. If you are astute to the etymology you’d know that oriental means eastern. Anyone familiar with geographical terms knows where the far east is. Bingo, “oriental” is far more accurate and correct than “asian”. If anybody is offended by my decidedly accurate use of the term “oriental” (and I am the farthest thing from racist - I love all people except pinhrads annoy me) then they just need to get over it and be an adult and stop making mountains out of molehills. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-more-politically-correct-asian-or-oriental/333827/58 "2013-02-16T07:30:22Z")
Look, if you want to speak out against the fact that people too often substitute taking offense for critical thinking – that is, being offended at a word rather than taking the effort to decide rather the person speaking them is actually prejudices or not, fine, I’m on board with you. But intentionally using an undesirable despite widespread cultural objections is dickish behavior. Are the words patently, inherently ill intentioned? No, we aren’t witches, words don’t have inherent cosmic power to do harm. However, people, **rationally or not** take offense to them – and often for at least decent reasons related to the term’s historical baggage. There’s simply no good reason to make people uncomfortable and offend them just to make a minor political point. To me, insisting that there’s “nothing wrong” with using a term that the great majority of the populace has decided **is** wrong is like being one of those people who takes pride in “telling it like it is.” They just want the excuse to say whatever they want carte blanch, regardless of how it makes others feel, and frame it as the other person’s fault for reacting to the statement rather than the speaker’s fault for avoiding something they damn well know most people don’t like. Again, if you want to argue that the term **shouldn’t** be hated. Fine, I’m with you. But you still shouldn’t use it until the time comes that most people actually agree with you. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-more-politically-correct-asian-or-oriental/333827/59 "2013-02-16T07:31:46Z")
> [@Rodgers01](#): > > Oriental sounds archaic to my ears; we don’t call Europeans “Occidentals.” Well, not on purpose I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-more-politically-correct-asian-or-oriental/333827/60 "2013-02-16T07:40:11Z")
Also, words aren’t purely a function of some detached academic etymology. Language is a cultural medium. Words mean what the language’s speakers use them to mean (or interpret them to mean, or think they mean). That means that regardless of the dictionary definition of a word, its **actual** definition includes “An offensive term for…” if most of the language’s (or dialect’s) users believe it to be so. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-more-politically-correct-asian-or-oriental/333827.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-more-politically-correct-asian-or-oriental/333827.md?page=4)