# Which is more politically correct - "Asian" or "Oriental"? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 2, 2005, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-more-politically-correct-asian-or-oriental/333827 "2005-12-02T22:49:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-more-politically-correct-asian-or-oriental/333827/81 "2013-02-16T18:00:51Z")
There are a couple of different issues here. One is the issue of the euphemism treadmill, which to some extent might be unavoidable. If a certain class continues to be disparaged by larger society, then whatever label is applied to that class will eventually become disparaging and a fresh label will be needed. That’s not because of some “P.C. conspiracy” to “devolve” language. It’s simply because discrimination and disadvantage still exists on a classification basis. Were class-based discrimination and disadvantage eliminated, then the euphemism treadmill might stop revolving on its own. The other issue is the bizarre claim that “Oriental” is not a racial term. Note that I did _not_ say “racist term.” It’s disingenuous to claim that the need for Oriental or an equivalent term is based purely on geography. Because to the extent that such geography is defined, it’s because people with certain race-associated physical characteristics live there. Why do we need a term for Oriental/East Asian/whatever that is distinguishable from Indian/South Asian/whatever? Why might it seem odd to use a term that could apply equally to Turks, Persians, Siberians, Indians, Japanese, and Javanese? It’s because we want to distinguish the groups based on perceived racial differences. And that’s really what the OP is asking for. The OP’s dogs seem to be discriminating on the basis of what seems to us to be a racial grouping, which is larger than a single nationality, but smaller than the entire Asian continent. So the OP wants an acceptable name for that apparent racial grouping. Until recently, “Oriental” was an acceptable label for that group in English. Now it’s not. But that’s not really a huge tragedy, although we seem to currently be in a transition phase in which not everyone is entirely certain what term to use. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-more-politically-correct-asian-or-oriental/333827/82 "2013-02-16T18:11:58Z")
> [@NormalDude](#): > > Poor dog would be scorned by any Afghani dog lovers, quite unnecessarily. You do realize you’re replying to posts made in 2005, right? A lot of these people probably don’t even read the SDMB anymore. Anyway, people from Afghanistan are actually called “Afghans” not “Afghanis”. (I didn’t know this until I had an Afghan-American coworker.) Afghanistan has also been traditionally considered part of “The Orient”. This term did not originate as a way to describe eastern Asia (“The Far East”) but rather everything east of Europe, including the Middle/Near East. Historically it seems to have meant the Middle/Near East more often than the Far East or all of Asia. This is why the term “Oriental rug” often refers to carpets produced in places like Iran, Turkey, and India. The Oriental rug shop in my town is actually owned by an Afghan. When I was in Okayama, Japan, a few years back I saw that there’s a museum there called the [Okayama Orient Museum](http://www.city.okayama.jp/orientmuseum/orient-En/index.htm). It does not specialize in Japanese or East Asian art and artifacts; instead the collection consists entirely of things from the Middle/Near East. ---
**Author:** ![NormalDude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7993a0/32.png) [@NormalDude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NormalDude)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-more-politically-correct-asian-or-oriental/333827/83 "2013-02-16T18:45:57Z")
> [@Stainz](#): > > Our dog has a thing about some men - specifically she hates Japanese, Chinese, Korean men - might be the dark hair, we’re not sure. So I would say that she hates “Asian” men. A friend would say the dog hates “Oriental” men. > > Is one term more p/c than the other? I would hate to be offending anyone … > > Thank you, > S. Just a joke… Perhaps the dog heard the rumor that Koreans eat dog meat. Not sure of the validity of that rumor, but certainly understandable from the dog’s perspective! ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-more-politically-correct-asian-or-oriental/333827/84 "2013-02-17T02:36:13Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > Actually, they’re the specific ethnic group everyone thinks of when they think of “Hungarian.” The Magyars were the ones with the original non-Indo-European language and the ones who don’t fit into the category of either Slavs or Germans. > > As a good guide, take a look at a history book that shows the large chunks of the eastern part of the Austro-Hungarian empire that went to countries like Romania and Poland. See the small blob that’s left? That’s the Magyars. Yes, today’s Hungary is the Magyar core, what’s left when you subtract the non-Magyar areas. There’s of course a large ethnically-Hungarian minority in western Romania, the birthplace of Béla Bartók and Béla Lugosi. They include the Székely (SAY-kay) people, an ancient steppe tribe that allied with the Magyars back when they lived on the steppes and became assimilated to Hungarian language and Hungarian identity. Before the Magyars were on the steppes, their Urheimat was in the Ural Mountains, in present-day Bashkortostan, which straddles the boundary of Europe and Asia. So if Indo-European Indians & Pakistanis are to be Asian, Finno-Ugric Magyars could legitimately be called… Eurasian. ---
**Author:** ![the\_apples\_fell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@the\_apples\_fell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_apples_fell)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-more-politically-correct-asian-or-oriental/333827/85 "2013-02-17T02:38:49Z")
Oriental for objects, Asian for people. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-more-politically-correct-asian-or-oriental/333827/86 "2013-02-17T02:57:58Z")
My boyfriend is a first generation American born of nationally Vietnamese but ethnically Chinese parents, but he always uses the word Asian to describe himself, his Asian friends, etc. If apropriate to the conversation he will further specify Chinese, Japanese, etc… but he NEVER appends “American” to it. I tell him that he’s an American which he recognizes but if you ask him his race he’s most likely to respond “Chinese” or “Asian” but not “Chinese American” or “Asian American” which just sounds way too PC and silly to the youngest generation, I think. Neither he nor any of his friends take any offense to the generic term Asian. That being said, I do like to call him a chinaman just to be intentionally hilarious. He laughs it off and says that if it were any one else saying it he’d be very offended but he knows I don’t mean it. ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-more-politically-correct-asian-or-oriental/333827/87 "2013-02-17T03:11:09Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > And of course, in the U.S. we can’t call the Indians, Indians because we’d get them all confused with the American Indians, who would prefer to be called “Native Americans.” All the American Indians I’ve known referred to themselves as “Indians.” ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-more-politically-correct-asian-or-oriental/333827/88 "2013-02-17T03:14:57Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > Still “Oriental” is less preferred. I generally use “Southeast Asian”, if for no reason other than it gets confusing when people from different cultures are using different regional variations of who “Asian” refers to. (I’m actually not sure what a far eastern Russian looks like, maybe I should use use “East Asian”? Are far east Russians appreciably different looking from, say, Mongolian people?) Siberian native peoples include [Khanty](http://www.eki.ee/books/redbook/khants.shtml), [Mansi](http://www.eki.ee/books/redbook/mansis.shtml), [Sa](http://www.eki.ee/books/redbook/enets.shtml)[mo](http://www.eki.ee/books/redbook/nenets.shtml)[ye](http://www.eki.ee/books/redbook/selkups.shtml)[ds](http://www.eki.ee/books/redbook/nganasans.shtml), [Tatar](http://www.eki.ee/books/redbook/baraba_tatars.shtml), [Ket](http://www.eki.ee/books/redbook/kets.shtml), [Dolgan](http://www.eki.ee/books/redbook/dolgans.shtml), [Sakha](http://www.yakutia.org/content/view/20/27/), [Altai](http://www.eki.ee/books/redbook/altaics.shtml), [Tuvan](http://www.genghisblues.com/), [Yukagir](http://www.eki.ee/books/redbook/yukaghirs.shtml), [Khakas](http://www.eki.ee/books/redbook/khakass.shtml), [Buryat](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15984622&postcount=64), [Evenki](http://www.eki.ee/books/redbook/evenks.shtml), [Even](http://www.eki.ee/books/redbook/evens.shtml), [Nanai](http://www.eki.ee/books/redbook/nanais.shtml),\* [Nivkh](http://www.eki.ee/books/redbook/nivkhs.shtml), [Koryak](http://www.eki.ee/books/redbook/koryaks.shtml), [Chukchi](http://www.eki.ee/books/redbook/chukchis.shtml), [Inupiat](http://www.eki.ee/books/redbook/asiatic_eskimos.shtml), etc. Pretty much all of them have East Asian-looking features such as eyes resembling those of Mongolians or Kazakhs or northern Chinese & Manchu, etc. Khanty and Mansi are the nearest linguistic relatives of Magyar; in fact, _Mansi_ is [etymologically](http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2342352) an Ugrian cognate of _Magyar_, as well as a Finno-Ugric cognate of Finnish _mies_, from Proto-Uralic \*_mańć_- (‘person’ or ‘man’). \*Dersu Uzala of movie fame was a Nanai. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-more-politically-correct-asian-or-oriental/333827/89 "2013-02-17T03:37:54Z")
“So, are you Chinese or Japanese?” - Hank Hill ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-more-politically-correct-asian-or-oriental/333827/90 "2013-02-17T03:58:22Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > Anyway, people from Afghanistan are actually called “Afghans” not “Afghanis”. (I didn’t know this until I had an Afghan-American coworker.) > > . _Pashtuns_ are called Afghans, a Tajik, Uzbek, Hazara who is a citizen of Afghanistan is properly Afghani not Afghan and probably would be offended at being so called. ---
**Author:** ![NormalDude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7993a0/32.png) [@NormalDude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NormalDude)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-more-politically-correct-asian-or-oriental/333827/91 "2013-02-17T04:21:34Z")
So many peeps getting offended about so many things when they ought to just chill. Anyway it still isn’t fair to the entire remaining Asian population for one subgroup to “claim” the moniker, when the original term “oriental” is completely suitable. The people who think it is offensive are obviously not old enough to know this came out of thin air 20+ years ago and prior to that nobody was “offended.” A British person weighed in earlier in the thread and said it isn’t offensive in England. That is the same as, say to be sure, 30+ years ago in the USA. Maybe in 30 years the Brits will swear up and down it has always been offensive and those “poor East Asians” have been quietly seething with fury for decades. This is what the revisionists would have you believe happened here in the US. Kind of like saying we never landed on the moon. But my memory serves me correctly and this prolonged “Asian” fad is pure innovation bunk that has merely caught on and taken hold. ---
**Author:** ![NormalDude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7993a0/32.png) [@NormalDude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NormalDude)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-more-politically-correct-asian-or-oriental/333827/92 "2013-02-17T04:32:15Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > Asian is less specific, since not all Asians are Orientals. The latter term is indeed considered offensive by some though, for reasons that I consider to be ridiculous. Completely agree, Thunder. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-more-politically-correct-asian-or-oriental/333827/93 "2013-02-17T04:37:10Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > We may be Asian, but the Asians themselves don’t want us! Let’s be South Asian, or better yet, Indian. 🙂 Yeah, because folks from Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Sri Lanka love it when you call them Indian. :rolleyes: (Even though much of that was historically as much India the region as were parts of India the republic today.) And then there are all the East Africans who look South Asian. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-more-politically-correct-asian-or-oriental/333827/94 "2013-02-17T04:50:30Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > _Pashtuns_ are called Afghans, a Tajik, Uzbek, Hazara who is a citizen of Afghanistan is properly Afghani not Afghan and probably would be offended at being so called. As far as I can tell from the Interwebs the only thing called “Afghani” within Afghanistan is the national currency. According to Article Four of the [Constitution of Afghanistan](http://www.embassyofafghanistan.org/page/constitution), anyone who is a citizen of Afghanistan is an Afghan, including members of the Tajik, Hazara, and Uzbek ethnic groups. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-more-politically-correct-asian-or-oriental/333827/95 "2013-02-17T05:09:48Z")
NormalDude, we don’t really need a lecture on PCness. seriously. look up Asian American movement 1968 if you really are interested regarding oriental versus Asian in the US. start here: [Asian American Movement 1968: Introduction to the Asian American Movement 1968](http://aam1968.blogspot.com/2008/01/introduction-to-asian-american-movement.html) Miss Manners would say use the term the person wants to hear and not force your PC opinion on it. IMHO 99% of the occidentals insisting on oriental are full of it and know jack shit on the history. I really hate the “Oriental is a rug” uttered by some ignorant PC gweiloh, but doesn’t matter what I think, it’s what people of the ethnicity want to be called. “Very foolish it is to use the wrong word to a stranger; for thought the heart my be clean of offense, how is the stranger to know that? He is more like to seek truth with a dagger.” “True. True talk,” said Kim solemnly. Kim and Mahbud Ali discussion from Kim by Rudyard Kipling. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-more-politically-correct-asian-or-oriental/333827/96 "2013-02-17T05:17:37Z")
I mean insist on Asian and that Oriental is a “slave” term ---
**Author:** ![NormalDude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7993a0/32.png) [@NormalDude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NormalDude)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-more-politically-correct-asian-or-oriental/333827/97 "2013-02-17T13:59:20Z")
Well if it really offended anybody that I bump into and I didn’t know what country they were from I would refer to them as **EAST Asian** , but there’s no way I will ever say just Asian because saying that is just joining in with the hoards regurgitating a poorly thought out term that ignores all other Asians. I guess my 3rd grade teacher made a lasting impression regarding the “Americans” analogy, which I posted earlier. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-more-politically-correct-asian-or-oriental/333827/98 "2013-02-17T20:40:31Z")
I love it when people decide that their personal way of using a word is The Right Way and everyone else is doing it wrong.:rolleyes: **NormalDude** , language is determined by usage. If a whole lot of people decide that a word is offensive, then … guess what happens? Now the word is offensive! There isn’t an official language bureau that determines which words are offensive and which words aren’t. And since language is always evolving there are bound to be situations words that used to be perfectly acceptable fall out of favor, and other words that used to be beyond the pale become acceptable discourse. ---
**Author:** ![InternetLegend](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/internetlegend/32/13154_2.png) [@InternetLegend](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InternetLegend)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-more-politically-correct-asian-or-oriental/333827/99 "2013-02-17T21:15:35Z")
I’d just like **NormalDude** to give the racial and linguistic politics a rest and maybe spend a little time learning to multi-quote. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-more-politically-correct-asian-or-oriental/333827/100 "2013-02-17T22:24:05Z")
> [@the\_apples\_fell](#): > > Oriental for objects, Asian for people. How many other regional descriptors do you know of that are either just for objects and another term meaning the same thing must be used for people? “Western for objects, European for people” sounds really dumb, doesn’t it? Same exact thing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-more-politically-correct-asian-or-oriental/333827.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-more-politically-correct-asian-or-oriental/333827.md?page=6)