# Which is the best way to disarm Pakistan **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 2, 2011, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-the-best-way-to-disarm-pakistan/604893 "2011-12-02T22:56:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Namkcalb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c89c15/32.png) [@Namkcalb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Namkcalb)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2011, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-the-best-way-to-disarm-pakistan/604893/1 "2011-12-02T22:56:15Z")
Pakistan has atomic weapons. Which would be the best way to make them not have atomic weapons? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2011, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-the-best-way-to-disarm-pakistan/604893/2 "2011-12-02T22:59:36Z")
Are you talking about how to hypothetically take out their nuclear weapons in the case of a military strike, or how to make them renounce nuclear weapons and give up what they have? I don’t know much about the first one, but the second one would just never happen. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2011, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-the-best-way-to-disarm-pakistan/604893/3 "2011-12-02T23:05:00Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I don’t know much about the first one Well one of the primary design aims of a nuclear arsenal is to prevent your enemies from destroying it with impunity. So realistically its not going to be possible, even with the huge advantages the US has in terms of air power and technology. Even if you can destroy 99 missiles out of a 100 (which is very unlikely) that 1 remaining missile can still kill millions of people. Of course it can’t kill millions of Americans, but I’m not sure the residents of Delhi would be very happy about that situation ---
**Author:** ![Namkcalb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c89c15/32.png) [@Namkcalb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Namkcalb)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2011, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-the-best-way-to-disarm-pakistan/604893/4 "2011-12-02T23:18:29Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Are you talking about how to hypothetically take out their nuclear weapons in the case of a military strike, or how to make them renounce nuclear weapons and give up what they have? I don’t know much about the first one, but the second one would just never happen. Either Anything from a South African-style unilateral disarmament, to a more thorough START-style treaty with India, but also including military options too. This thread is about what would work, should most powers think a Nuclear Pakistan is a bad thing. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-the-best-way-to-disarm-pakistan/604893/5 "2011-12-03T00:32:49Z")
The _best_ way? Get India to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Namkcalb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c89c15/32.png) [@Namkcalb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Namkcalb)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-the-best-way-to-disarm-pakistan/604893/6 "2011-12-03T05:01:19Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > Well one of the primary design aims of a nuclear arsenal is to prevent your enemies from destroying it with impunity. So realistically its not going to be possible, even with the huge advantages the US has in terms of air power and technology. Even if you can destroy 99 missiles out of a 100 (which is very unlikely) that 1 remaining missile can still kill millions of people. Of course it can’t kill millions of Americans, but I’m not sure the residents of Delhi would be very happy about that situation Yeah, this is a problem… even if China, India and the USA all commit to it, there is little chance of catching all the birds before they fly. Another problem is, there is no central figure who has ultimate authority over the nukes. There is no launch-prevention system, so anyone can launch a nuke if they have physical access to it. It just takes one general or ISI officer to decide that taking out the kufr devils is better than surrender and occupation. In other words, M.A.D. theory doesn’t apply if there is even one exception. So there goes the strategy of a decapitation strike or a peaceful surrender. Futhermore, responding to the acts of one middle-ranking madman by nuking ordinary and relatively-innocent Pakistani citizens is very hard to ethically justify > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > The _best_ way? > > Get India to do it. Unfortunately, Pakistan has a first-strike policy to defer any Indian invasion and there is [a lot of extreme anti-Indian sentiment in Pakistan](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=630828). ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-the-best-way-to-disarm-pakistan/604893/7 "2011-12-03T05:03:48Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > The _best_ way? > Get India to do it. Disagree. That’d be the best way for the US. Not the _best_ way. As a matter of fact, it’d probably be the worst way, since there’s a fairly large probability that Pakistan would get at least one weapon off at India. And I hope we agree that is one too many. The US forcing Pakistani nuclear disarmament under threat of military action is the best way I can think of. Either lose the nuclear arsenal and all reactors/nuclear material or lose your military. There’s nothing Pakistan could do. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-the-best-way-to-disarm-pakistan/604893/8 "2011-12-03T05:06:54Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > Disagree. That’d be the best way for the US. Not the _best_ way. Well, I was assuming the two were congruent for the OP’s purposes. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-the-best-way-to-disarm-pakistan/604893/9 "2011-12-03T05:15:30Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > The US forcing Pakistani nuclear disarmament under threat of military action is the best way I can think of. Either lose the nuclear arsenal and all reactors/nuclear material or lose your military. There’s nothing Pakistan could do. Can Pakistan hit Israel with their nuclear missiles? Although they couldn’t respond against America to the threat of an American attack, they might say, “you attack us, and we attack the Zionists.” ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-the-best-way-to-disarm-pakistan/604893/10 "2011-12-03T05:34:48Z")
The best way IMHO would be via suicide attack with commandos. Suicide in the sense that the mission of the commandos is to cause one of the nuclear weapons to go off where it sits. (I am assuming here that the Pakistani nukes are garrisoned at heavily defended military bases in the middle of nowhere and that there would be a minimum of civilian casualties.) Once the Pakistani people realize the danger they’re sitting on they’ll be begging the IAEA to take the nukes off their hands. ---
**Author:** ![Naxos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/50afbb/32.png) [@Naxos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Naxos)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-the-best-way-to-disarm-pakistan/604893/11 "2011-12-03T05:39:14Z")
> [@Namkcalb](#): > > Pakistan has atomic weapons. Thank the Republican US administrations of the past 30 years for that. Ask your question to them. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-the-best-way-to-disarm-pakistan/604893/12 "2011-12-03T05:43:10Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > The US forcing Pakistani nuclear disarmament under threat of military action is the best way I can think of. Either lose the nuclear arsenal and all reactors/nuclear material or lose your military. There’s nothing Pakistan could do. How do you propose the U.S. takes away 600,000 members of Pakistan’s military? It would have to be an all-out invasion, which requires massive amounts of troops, which would then be vulnerable to nuclear strikes. Not to mention all the U.S. targets in Afghanistan that would be easy to nuke, like Bagram Air Base. We couldn’t pacify Iraq, which was small, non-nuclear, and happy to see us at first. Invading a country of 180 million that hates our fucking guts and has nukes seems… unwise. ---
**Author:** ![Namkcalb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c89c15/32.png) [@Namkcalb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Namkcalb)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-the-best-way-to-disarm-pakistan/604893/13 "2011-12-03T05:47:08Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, I was assuming the two were congruent for the OP’s purposes. When you are talking about weapons-of-mass-destruction, it is wise to look beyond your own nation. > [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Can Pakistan hit Israel with their nuclear missiles? Although they couldn’t respond against America to the threat of an American attack, they might say, “you attack us, and we attack the Zionists.” The problem with that scenario is, the majority of Pakistanis are Muslim, and Israel contains many holy sites sacred to the Muslim faith. > [@bldysabba](#): > > The US forcing Pakistani nuclear disarmament under threat of military action is the best way I can think of. Either lose the nuclear arsenal and all reactors/nuclear material or lose your military. There’s nothing Pakistan could do. Yes, but we’ve learnt again and again not to trust Pakistani military chiefs. Getting them to say they’ll disarm is worthless, and getting American boots-on-the-ground will lead to a costly insurgency and Pakistan would just rearm once the Americans left. I’ve just watched the film Watchmen, and it’s given me an interesting idea. Here’s my outlandish plan. It should only be given to the CIA and trusted elements in the Indian government. [ol] [li] Evacuate all but one small base in Afghanistan[/li][li]Detanate a small American nuclear weapon in a remote area of Pakistan[/li][li] Evacuate the small base[/li][li]Claim publically that it was a pakistani nuclear weapon being smuggled into Afghanistan to blow up an American base, claim the ‘terrorists’ detenated it when they were under attack from Afghan NA SF[/li][li]Threaten Pakistan with Nuclear retaliation, unless they permit permanent weapon inspectors from both India, China and the USA[/li][li]Should they not comply, nuke a isolated Pakistani nuclear site, with the promise the bombs unless the ‘regime stands down’[/li][li]Patriotic rage will make a climb-down untenable for Pakistan, but their missiles don’t have the range to hit CONUS[/li][li]Have India publically come to Pakistan’s rescue, by offering a treaty to defend Pakistan in exchange for them disarming and allowing Indian soldiers to “co-defend” Pakistani military assets. This would be publically rationalised as giving Pakistan a human shield and India a formal casus belli should “American aggression” continue[/li][li]Hopefully, over the years, the relations between the two country will get even better, and war nuclear or otherwise would never occur[/li][/ol] ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-the-best-way-to-disarm-pakistan/604893/14 "2011-12-03T05:49:30Z")
> [@Namkcalb](#): > > The problem with that scenario is, the majority of Pakistanis are Muslim, and Israel contains many holy sites sacred to the Muslim faith. I feel like every time I watch or read news about the Middle East, _every_ country in the entire region has a million Islamic holy sites. Either the holy city of this, or the sacred shrine of that. It doesn’t stop them from blowing up _each other._ Something tells me they don’t give a shit. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-the-best-way-to-disarm-pakistan/604893/15 "2011-12-03T05:55:38Z")
> [@Namkcalb](#): > > Have India publically come to Pakistan’s rescue, by offering a treaty to defend Pakistan in exchange for them disarming and allowing Indian soldiers to “co-defend” Pakistani military assets. This would be publically rationalised as giving Pakistan a human shield and India a formal casus belli should “American aggression” continue Huh? You know Pakistan and India hate each other, right? To the point of Pakistan running a low-level insurgency against India? There is no way to involuntarily nuclear disarm a country with a sizable number of nukes. There’s just not. It would have to be voluntary, and with nuclear-armed India sitting right there, it’s not going to happen. Maybe Pakistan would trade their arsenal for Kashmir and a Chinese nuclear umbrella. Probably not. It’s a point of national pride. The only scenario I can see Pakistan getting disarmed involves a terrorist nuclear attack on U.S. soil and several nuclear detonations and a few million dead people. I hope Pakistan stays nuclear for a long, long time. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-the-best-way-to-disarm-pakistan/604893/16 "2011-12-03T07:19:10Z")
> [@Namkcalb](#): > > When you are talking about weapons-of-mass-destruction, it is wise to look beyond your own nation. Well, I did, and the scenario that involves depriving Pakistan of nukes with the least amount of damage to my country is, I figure, for India to destroy them, even if it means taking some hits in return. I’m confident Canada will will be fairly unscathed if a few dozen nukes fly back and forth in central Asia. Background radiation goes up a bit for a few weeks and such… ---
**Author:** ![Namkcalb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c89c15/32.png) [@Namkcalb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Namkcalb)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-the-best-way-to-disarm-pakistan/604893/17 "2011-12-03T08:57:38Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > I feel like every time I watch or read news about the Middle East, _every_ country in the entire region has a million Islamic holy sites. Either the holy city of this, or the sacred shrine of that. It doesn’t stop them from blowing up _each other._ Something tells me they don’t give a shit. I agree with you, but this is different. Although some holy sites are basically of local interest, or in the worse cases made-up to hide weapon stores or get the Americans to kow-tow even lower, Jerusaleum, and to a lesser extent, the rest of Israel is definately different kettle of fish. Outside of Mecca and Medina, the Al Axa(sp?) Mosque is the most holy site too all Muslims, as it’s where they claim Mohammed ascended to heaven. They also believe Judaism is just heretical corruption of Islam, so they consider many Jewish sites as misapproprated but holy places too. > [@Erdosain](#): > > Huh? You know Pakistan and India hate each other, right? To the point of Pakistan running a low-level insurgency against India? > > There is no way to involuntarily nuclear disarm a country with a sizable number of nukes. There’s just not. It would have to be voluntary, and with nuclear-armed India sitting right there, it’s not going to happen. Maybe Pakistan would trade their arsenal for Kashmir and a Chinese nuclear umbrella. Probably not. It’s a point of national pride. When an untouchable superpower has just nuked one of your bases, and is willing to continue 'til you either unconditionally surrender or are wiped of the map, an olive branch and protection by your local adversary doesn’t seem like a bad idea. > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, I did, and the scenario that involves depriving Pakistan of nukes with the least amount of damage to my country is, I figure, for India to destroy them, even if it means taking some hits in return. > > I’m confident Canada will will be fairly unscathed if a few dozen nukes fly back and forth in central Asia. Background radiation goes up a bit for a few weeks and such… A nuclear war with India would kill tens of millions of people at a bare minimum. Even just some hits would exceed WWI’s deathtoll. I don’t know, I would guess Russia or France would strike, lest they let moose inherit the Earth. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-the-best-way-to-disarm-pakistan/604893/18 "2011-12-03T09:04:53Z")
> [@Namkcalb](#): > > A nuclear war with India would kill tens of millions of people at a bare minimum. Even just some hits would exceed WWI’s deathtoll. And that contradicts what I said, how? ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-the-best-way-to-disarm-pakistan/604893/19 "2011-12-03T09:07:56Z")
> [@Namkcalb](#): > > Which is the best way to disarm Pakistan Nigerian scam. Tell them you are looking for an investor willing to donate a “seed” of fissionable material to start your fast breeder reactor, which will be repaid a hundredfold once the process is up and running. ---
**Author:** ![Namkcalb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c89c15/32.png) [@Namkcalb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Namkcalb)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-the-best-way-to-disarm-pakistan/604893/20 "2011-12-03T09:51:50Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Nigerian scam. Tell them you are looking for an investor willing to donate a “seed” of fissionable material to start your fast breeder reactor, which will be repaid a hundredfold once the process is up and running. Okay, I’m not the biggest fan of Pakistan’s leadership, and though I could easily see this working once, I very much doubt you’ll get away with it a hundred times.🙂 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-the-best-way-to-disarm-pakistan/604893.md?page=2)