# Which is the most dangerous of the Hawks ? US'ers opinion. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 12, 2003, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-the-most-dangerous-of-the-hawks-users-opinion/201216 "2003-09-12T15:37:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-the-most-dangerous-of-the-hawks-users-opinion/201216/1 "2003-09-12T15:37:13Z")
So who do you think is the most dangerous of the Washington Hawks that live around Bush ? Wolfie or Rummy ? Rice or Cheney ? Another ? I am specially interested in the opinion of americans who know more about them. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-the-most-dangerous-of-the-hawks-users-opinion/201216/2 "2003-09-12T15:51:03Z")
Most dangerous of the Hawks? I’d go with Bob Probert in the '98 season. Otherwise it’s quite a silly question. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-the-most-dangerous-of-the-hawks-users-opinion/201216/3 "2003-09-12T15:54:27Z")
I’d vote for the Prince of Darkness - Perle ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-the-most-dangerous-of-the-hawks-users-opinion/201216/4 "2003-09-12T15:56:02Z")
Dangerous in what context?; I expect if any one of them was fired at you from a cannon, you would be quite badly bruised, at least. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-the-most-dangerous-of-the-hawks-users-opinion/201216/5 "2003-09-12T16:11:55Z")
hhmm… Dangerous as in power ? Or with power ? Did you expect dangerous as with a gun in their hand ? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-the-most-dangerous-of-the-hawks-users-opinion/201216/6 "2003-09-12T16:28:54Z")
I think you need to qualify your question a bit more if you want a real response. Unless you want to change your OP to “Which is the most dangerous of the Hawks? US’er left wing nutball opinion only please” What exactly are you looking for here? From this moderates perspective, none of the above is any more ‘dangerous’ than a similar selection of Doves would be. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Maximum\_C](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b77776/32.png) [@Maximum\_C](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maximum_C)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-the-most-dangerous-of-the-hawks-users-opinion/201216/7 "2003-09-12T17:05:02Z")
I think by “dangerous” he means “most likely to lead the US into military conflict with other nations.” That is, which political leader seems quickest to push the button. -C ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-the-most-dangerous-of-the-hawks-users-opinion/201216/8 "2003-09-12T17:08:53Z")
I’d like to know which of them has stopped beating his/her spouse.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Semp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/fbc32d/32.png) [@Semp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Semp)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-the-most-dangerous-of-the-hawks-users-opinion/201216/9 "2003-09-12T18:40:47Z")
In one sense I’d say Rumsfeld, because he’s the most likely to ouright alienate our allies with his off-the-cuff comments. Generally speaking, any bad situation that any of the others could get us in to, he’d have the best chance of making things worse. As for the others, I’d say Cheney, since he has the most power out of the lot. But considering how mysterious and out of sight he is, most of this opinion is only based on conjecture. Is he out of hiding yet? ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-the-most-dangerous-of-the-hawks-users-opinion/201216/10 "2003-09-12T19:58:05Z")
Rumsfeld is probably the worst. Cheney at least has the check of greed–if it’s bad enough for profits, he might step back. Ashcroft is the looniest, but he doesn’t have the direct power. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-the-most-dangerous-of-the-hawks-users-opinion/201216/11 "2003-09-12T20:26:44Z")
From John Mace > [@](#): > > I’d like to know which of them has stopped beating his/her spouse. I’d have to say, in all seriousness, that Chaney would be out…I think he’s too old and sick to beat his spouse. Rice looks too frail to beat her husband, but looks can be decieving so I won’t disqualify her. Still, Rummy would be the one in my book most likely to continue to beat his spouse. It would be a close race though with Ashcroft…he has a certain glint in his eye when he’s really worked up. Hope that helps. Maximum C > [@](#): > > I think by “dangerous” he means “most likely to lead the US into military conflict with other nations.” That is, which political leader seems quickest to push the button. Ah…I see. Well, if we take out the evil conspiricy conotations, I suppose the one with the most INFLUENCE to ‘lead’ us into some theoretic conflict with ‘other nations’ would be Rumsfeld. He’d have the most direct influence, though I suppose Chaney would also be a major factor. I don’t see either Rice or Ashcroft having such a direct impact on Bush as those two. Daddy Bush might also have some impact on the current presidents thinking, who knows. Personally I think that we’ve pretty well shot our bolt though. I’ll be shocked if there are any further American adventures in the near future without some sort of direct attack against the US or a close ally. Of course, by some [peoples](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=210453) accounts the US government manufactured the whole 911 thing to go to war for oil (or something like that)…so I suppose they could always do it again. 🙂 I think if they do though, they will find that the cupboard is pretty bare atm… If the US does in fact go to war sometime in the near future (read during the ‘reign’ of Bush) then by all means you are free to use this quote to pit me all you like…I’ll gladly join in. I just don’t see us being able to do anything further, nor do I see any other special circumstances like Afghanistan and Iraq were on the horizon. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-the-most-dangerous-of-the-hawks-users-opinion/201216/12 "2003-09-12T20:35:32Z")
Rumsfeld…if he’s prepared. He’s compiled a list of all the weaknesses of the other members of the Justice League so that he can remove them if they ever turn evil. ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-the-most-dangerous-of-the-hawks-users-opinion/201216/13 "2003-09-12T20:47:57Z")
Pearle’s got that Emperor Palpatine thing going on, so I’ll have to vote for him. **xtisme** , do not conflate “The neo-cons caused 9/11 with remote controlled airplanes” with “The neo-cons used 9/11 as an opportunity to push through a radical agenda that had been in place for years.” The former is pure poppycock, the latter is not. ---
**Author:** ![Sine\_Nomen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d26b3c/32.png) [@Sine\_Nomen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sine_Nomen)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-the-most-dangerous-of-the-hawks-users-opinion/201216/14 "2003-09-12T20:54:43Z")
The OP question is a little too unqualified and slanted for me to answer, but I’ll say this: politically active (deputy) Secretaries of Defense scare me, period. I’m referring to Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz’s membership in the [Project for the New American Century](http://www.newamericancentury.org/). ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-the-most-dangerous-of-the-hawks-users-opinion/201216/15 "2003-09-12T21:07:32Z")
From vibrotronica > [@](#): > > xtisme, do not conflate “The neo-cons caused 9/11 with remote controlled airplanes” with “The neo-cons used 9/11 as an opportunity to push through a radical agenda that had been in place for years.” The former is pure poppycock, the latter is not. Don’t put words in MY mouth, vibrotronica. I’ve never said any such thing. If you read the friggin link, the guy doing most of the babbling WAS saying that 9/11 was caused by the US government in a huge conspiricy. I put it in for laughs as I found the whole thing very entertaining. Next time I’ll do some kind of _humor alert_ for the humor impaired. In fact, if you bothered to either ask me or read any of my past posts, I think they (Bush and his merry men) DID use 911 and some special pre-existing circumstances to push though an agenda. I doubt whether it was some long conspiricy (except in concept for how they felt the M.E. should be), but I think that they took advantage of an ‘oppertunity’ and ran with it (to our detriment in Iraq IMO). Reguards, XT ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-the-most-dangerous-of-the-hawks-users-opinion/201216/16 "2003-09-12T21:27:55Z")
George W. Bush. He may not be the best spoken guy in the world. He may not be the fastest thinker of the group. His understanding of the world, diplomacy and international politics and economics may be faulty. In the end however he, and only he, is in charge. He has an objective (in my judgment no one but our friend **Brutus** has been straight forward and honest about the objective) and he is in a position to override any thing that interferes with him achieving that objective. Rummy and Wolfowitz and Pearle and Rove are merely the President’s agents. The President is the most dangerous hawk and all the focus on his underling, servants, running dogs, agents and advisors simply obscures the fact that it is his policy, his plan and his objective and his responsibility and his creature. ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-the-most-dangerous-of-the-hawks-users-opinion/201216/17 "2003-09-12T21:36:48Z")
I apologize for misunderstanding your post, **x**. ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-the-most-dangerous-of-the-hawks-users-opinion/201216/18 "2003-09-12T22:10:48Z")
What **Spavined Gelding** said. There is no underestimating the radical extremism of Bush. He needs to be stopped. Period. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-the-most-dangerous-of-the-hawks-users-opinion/201216/19 "2003-09-12T22:17:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Spavined Gelding \* > \*\* Rummy and Wolfowitz and Pearle and Rove are merely the President’s agents. \*\* I thought it was the other way around… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-the-most-dangerous-of-the-hawks-users-opinion/201216/20 "2003-09-12T22:56:11Z")
Rove is the one with the presidents ear. Rumsfeld is just a loose cannon. IMHO his days are numbered. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-is-the-most-dangerous-of-the-hawks-users-opinion/201216.md?page=2)