# Which leading Democrats also thought Saddam had WMD programs? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 23, 2005, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-leading-democrats-also-thought-saddam-had-wmd-programs/327569 "2005-10-23T22:56:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-leading-democrats-also-thought-saddam-had-wmd-programs/327569/61 "2005-10-24T17:28:24Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > It’s amazing to me how some Clinton partisans still won’t admit he was cheating on his wife and some Bush partisans won’t admit he was wrong about Iraq. Some people apparently can watch somebody pour in the poison and still drink the kool-aid. There are two people on earth that really should care about Clinton cheating on his wife. Those two are Hillary and to a lesser extent, Chelsea. For everyone else, it’s a non-issue. I don’t care if Bush and Condi go around the world right on the Oval Office desk, but I do care that they lied to start a war. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-leading-democrats-also-thought-saddam-had-wmd-programs/327569/62 "2005-10-24T17:57:04Z")
The WMD are all but a red herring. At issue is the quality of threat presented to the US by Iraq. The position of the US Intel Community at the time was that Hussein was “drawing a line short” of and unlikely to be in the “foreseeable future” attacking the US directly or by proxy with WMD or conventional weapons. He wasn’t going to risk what Dr. Rice called “national obliteration” to score what may well have ended up being posthumous points. Further, **despite the US Intelligence Community’s purposely aggressive, exhaustive and repetitive searches for a operational or collaborative relationship between aQ and Saddam, the Community’s assessment was and still is that no such relationship existed**. That’s what Team Bush was hearing on the issue while they were out pimping the **Atta/Prague** connection, Salman Pak etc, etc, etc. Surely there’s no one here brazen enough to try and make the case that Team Bush did not sell the invasion on the basis of preventing Saddam from attacking the US quite possibly through his ties to aQ. All of Team Bush’s cacophonous din to the contrary was made in spite of the[Best Information Available at the Time](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=310455). This is where the [Office of Special Plans](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=199309&page=1&pp=50) (OSP) and the Policy Counterterrorism Evaluation Group comes in. They were the folks who, (among other things), ‘found’ the evidence for the connections where the US Intel Community said there were none. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-leading-democrats-also-thought-saddam-had-wmd-programs/327569/63 "2005-10-24T18:13:04Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > Goddam, but you’re a crappy mindreader. Roughly on your level. > [@](#): > > I didn’t ask for a cite that Clinton said that Saddam had WMD, and **you know that**. So you might want to reconsider the whole “I will post what’s in your mind, but get all huffy if you post what is mine” thing. Of course, it is of a piece with the whole “we know for a fact that Bush intended to mislead, but Clinton didn’t” thing, so abandoning it might not work so well for your argument as a whole. Especially since Clinton had such a shining reputation for veracity, don’t you think? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-leading-democrats-also-thought-saddam-had-wmd-programs/327569/64 "2005-10-24T18:35:32Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Roughly on your level.So you might want to reconsider the whole “I will post what’s in your mind, but get all huffy if you post what is mine” thing. My apologies; I assumed, incorrectly, you were capable of reading and comprehending my words. The only way you would NOT have known what I said you knew was if you’d either not read or not comprehended what I wrote. I will not make that mistake in the future. > [@](#): > > Of course, it is of a piece with the whole “we know for a fact that Bush intended to mislead, but Clinton didn’t” thing, so abandoning it might not work so well for your argument as a whole. Especially since Clinton had such a shining reputation for veracity, don’t you think? No, it’s not of a piece. I’ve offered a detailed argument why I consider a specific statement of Bush’s to be a lie. You’ve done nothing of the sort for why you consider any statement of Clinton’s to be a lie. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-leading-democrats-also-thought-saddam-had-wmd-programs/327569/65 "2005-10-24T19:11:29Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > **John** , given the political atmosphere at the time, and the massaging of the intelligence given to the Senate by the executive branch, what else do you think Kerry could have said but what he did? We’ve been over this before. I have no idea what he could have or should have said, but I’d start with having him say what he really thought. If he doesn’t have the courage of his own convictions, that’s his problem. There were plenty of Democratic Senators who voted against the Iraq resolution. There is no doubt it would have passed without his vote (as did the later appropriations bill). Perhaps he could have said what [Senator Russ Feingold](http://www.antiwar.com/orig/feingold1.html) said: > [@](#): > > But, Mr. President, I am increasingly troubled by the seemingly shifting justifications for an invasion at this time. My colleagues, I’m not suggesting there has to be only one justification for such a dramatic action. But when the Administration moves back and forth from one argument to another, I think it undercuts the credibility of the case and the belief in its urgency. I believe that this practice of shifting justifications has much to do with the troubling phenomenon of many Americans questioning the Administration’s motives in insisting on action at this particular time. > > What am I talking about? I’m talking about the spectacle of the President and senior Administration officials citing a purported connection to al Qaeda one day, weapons of mass destruction the next day, Saddam Hussein’s treatment of his own people on another day, and then on some days the issue of Kuwaiti prisoners of war. > > \ > > Mr. President, I believe it is dangerous for the world, and especially dangerous for us, to take the tragedy of 9-11 and the word “terrorism” and all their powerful emotion and then too easily apply them to many other situations – situations that surely need our serious attention but are not necessarily, Mr. President, the same as individuals and organizations who have shown a willingness to fly planes into the World Trade Center and into the Pentagon. You seem to be implying that Kerry had no choice but to support the resolution, yet 23 Senators voted against it, including some (like Senator Graham from FL) who were planning to run for president themselves. ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-leading-democrats-also-thought-saddam-had-wmd-programs/327569/66 "2005-10-24T19:15:27Z")
> [@David Simmons](#): > > I believe that the Democrats were cowardly in that they were afraid of being called “pro-terrorist” and simply went along. It will be some time before I’ll trust them again. I don’t see how then can expect to govern if they won’t stand up and demand that going to war be justified from A to Z and back again. I’ve got to admit that really doesn’t leave me with anybody I trust to govern. The Republicans have wholeheartedly backed an incompetent and Democrats are a bunch of ditherers. I just wanted to throw that in again, because it bears repeating. It’s pretty much exactly how I feel. Also, notice how **Shodan** ’s argument at this point has become “You are all just as bad as I am.” ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-leading-democrats-also-thought-saddam-had-wmd-programs/327569/67 "2005-10-24T19:35:21Z")
> [@vibrotronica](#): > > Also, notice how **Shodan** ’s argument at this point has become “You are all just as bad as I am.” With the caveat that he offers the flimsiest of support for this argument, I agree. I also agree that if Kerry voted for the war out of political expediency, he deserved to lose the election (I’m not saying Bush deserved to win: just that Kerry deserved to lose). When it comes to matters of war, political expediency goes out the window; and if you’re willing to have people killed to promote your candidacy–if you’re willing to vote for war to promote your candidacy–then you’re the lowest scumbag imaginable. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-leading-democrats-also-thought-saddam-had-wmd-programs/327569/68 "2005-10-24T19:38:43Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > You seem to be implying that Kerry had no choice but to support the resolution, yet 23 Senators voted against it, including some (like Senator Graham from FL) who were planning to run for president themselves. No, but supporting it was his best choice, and how do you know he wasn’t saying what he thought or voting his conscience? Graham no doubt had his own political calculations in mind as well as his sense of responsibility when making his own decision. It was a difficult call for every one of them. The problem is the confusion that the resolution “authorized the war”. It isn’t any Senator’s fault that that is what the spin settled into. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-leading-democrats-also-thought-saddam-had-wmd-programs/327569/69 "2005-10-24T19:47:14Z")
> [@vibrotronica](#): > > I just wanted to throw that in again, because it bears repeating. It’s pretty much exactly how I feel. Good point. That’s why I’ve generally been in favor of gridlock in Wash DC-- don’t let either party get control of both Congress and the Presidency. Bush Sr was able to pass his Gulf War resolution w/ the Dems in control of Congress (although it was pretty close in the Senate). Kerry somehow was able to vote against that war, although one wonders why… ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-leading-democrats-also-thought-saddam-had-wmd-programs/327569/70 "2005-10-24T19:50:58Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > No, but supporting it was his best choice, and how do you know he wasn’t saying what he thought or voting his conscience? Maybe he did. You were the one saying he didn’t have much choice. I don’t really care either way. > [@](#): > > The problem is the confusion that the resolution “authorized the war”. It isn’t any Senator’s fault that that is what the spin settled into. Let’s not trot out that old canard. They knew damn well they were authorizing war. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-leading-democrats-also-thought-saddam-had-wmd-programs/327569/71 "2005-10-24T20:39:52Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Let’s not trot out that old canard. They knew damn well they were authorizing war. They only authorized it as a last resort. Bush called it a vote to keep the peace. Yes, they should have known he was lying…but I think that the lying itself was worse than either believing a (known) liar…or more likely, not really believing him, but feeling compelled to pretend that you do. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-leading-democrats-also-thought-saddam-had-wmd-programs/327569/72 "2005-10-24T21:06:23Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Let’s not trot out that old canard. They knew damn well they were authorizing war. [That ain’t what Bush said](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/09/20020919-1.html) > [@](#): > > I am sending suggested language for a resolution. I want – I’ve asked for Congress’ support to enable the administration to keep the peace. And we look forward to a good, constructive debate in Congress. I appreciate the fact that the leadership recognizes we’ve got to move before the elections. I appreciate the strong support we’re getting from both Republicans and Democrats, and look forward to working with them. > > Mr. President, how important is it that that resolution give you an authorization of the use of force? > > That will be part of the resolution, the authorization to use force. If you want to keep the peace, you’ve got to have the authorization to use force. But it’s – this will be – this is a chance for Congress to indicate support. It’s a chance for Congress to say, we support the administration’s ability to keep the peace. That’s what this is all about. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-leading-democrats-also-thought-saddam-had-wmd-programs/327569/73 "2005-10-24T21:07:29Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > My apologies; I assumed, incorrectly, you were capable of reading and comprehending my words. Oh, I understood you just fine. You were claiming to be able to say what I knew. That’s why you said it. I would assume. But again, I forgot the basic mantra of these kinds of threads - That Only Counts Some of the Time. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-leading-democrats-also-thought-saddam-had-wmd-programs/327569/74 "2005-10-24T21:10:52Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Oh, I understood you just fine. You were claiming to be able to say what I knew. That’s why you said it. So now that you’ve won your oh-so-important point, do you care to offer any support for the proposition that Clinton lied regarding WMDs in Iraq? Hurry: I’m holding my breath. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-leading-democrats-also-thought-saddam-had-wmd-programs/327569/75 "2005-10-24T21:17:42Z")
> [@jshore](#): > > They only authorized it as a last resort. You know what, if you want to debate that, start another thread. Suffice it to say that the resolution authorized the president to unilaterally make that decision, and he was not even required to present his argument to Congress prior to initiating the invasion. Plenty of Democratic Senators sounded a warning call-- Feingold even said he viewed the resolution as virtually guaranteeing that war would ensue, which was a key reason he voted “no”. In this thread, lets stick to the topic at hand. I provided cites of 2 prominent Democrats proving that they did in fact believe SH had WMDs in the months leading up to the war. If you’d like to see more, I’ll see what I can do. Have you got any cites of Senate Democrats who voted for the resolution but said something like “we have no idea if SH has WMDs or not”? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-leading-democrats-also-thought-saddam-had-wmd-programs/327569/76 "2005-10-24T21:39:16Z")
I guess I’ve never understood why this is such an important point for the Dems/anti-war crowd. Its like they want to revise history so that its ONLY those lieing Republicans who thought Saddam had WMD. Why is it so important to change things so that this is so, or to attempt to jump through logical hoops when folks are on record as believing Iraq had the things?? The point (or what I’d think is the point) is that the information was wrong…and the president is ultimately responsible for taking us to war on wrong information. Oh, Congress and the Senate come in for their share too, but it was the president who pushed for war…on bad info. Whether or not everyone believed, no one believed or something inbetween, it makes no difference…Bush was the president, he committed the US to war, a war that is still dragging on, and he did so on information that was wrong. He’s responsible. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-leading-democrats-also-thought-saddam-had-wmd-programs/327569/77 "2005-10-24T21:48:23Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > I guess I’ve never understood why this is such an important point for the Dems/anti-war crowd. Perhaps it’s hard to get behind a party while simulatenously admitting that they fell for a lie you saw through. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-leading-democrats-also-thought-saddam-had-wmd-programs/327569/78 "2005-10-24T23:01:30Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Plenty of Democratic Senators sounded a warning call-- Feingold even said he viewed the resolution as virtually guaranteeing that war would ensue, which was a key reason he voted “no”. That’s because Feingold knew that the President was just full of shit about the “keep the peace” crap and that wasn’t his plan at all. Like I said, I wished others in Congress had realized this. And actually, I think some did but were too timid to say, “I am going to vote against this resolution because I don’t trust our President.” I felt that they ought to do that, but I can understand how it might be difficult politically. > [@](#): > > In this thread, lets stick to the topic at hand. I provided cites of 2 prominent Democrats proving that they did in fact believe SH had WMDs in the months leading up to the war. Well, there were all sorts of beliefs leading up to the war and in fact you found the gamut on the SDMB. I personally was in the “I think the truth lies somewhere roughly halfway in between what the known-liar and deceiver who is leading our country says and what the known-liar, deceiver, and ruthless thug who is leading Iraq says.” As it turns out, I ought to have believe the thug more. However, there are several important issues here that are being glossed over: (1) What the Congress was led to believe was based at least in part on what the Administration was saying the intelligence said. (2) There is a distinct difference in my mind about claiming to be so sure about something that you are willing to lead the country to war on the basis of it and saying you believe it but are not the one who is doing the leading. (Not that acquiescing isn’t bad too…It is. But, I think it is still worth making the distinction that it is not as bad.) (3) The Administration again and again hyped certain specific claims that we now know were not only false but known to be false, or at least highly-suspect, at the time. It is well-documented that various people in the intelligence community were feeling pressure from the administration or feeling that the administration was blatantly misinterpretting or mischaracterizing their data or what they said. (4) There was a significant difference between what was believed in October 2002 and what was believed in March 2003. In October 2002, there were no inspectors on the ground and everyone was willing to believe the worst. By March 2003, it should have been clear that the intelligence on which this assessment was based was garbage. The inspectors themselves knew this, as the CBS article we have linked to many times showed. The fact that the American public as a whole didn’t know this is one of the biggest faults of the so-called “liberal media”…and, yes, probably of the Democrats too. That CBS story should have been headline news of every news outlet. Instead, it was pretty effectively buried. (I am not even sure I had heard about it before we went to war.) (5) If I say it once, I’ll say it a thousand times, any attempt to argue that the administration truly believed what it was saying runs headlong into the fact that they did so little to secure potential WMD sites during and after the invasion. If they were truly worried about WMDs ending up in the hands of terrorists, they had a strange way of demonstrating this. One could claim that this was just incompetence and perhaps it was…but it was incompetence on a scale so vast that I don’t see how it is a much better than the alternative of them having lied. Look, there was a lot of blame to go around here. There was incompetence in the intelligence community. There was complete incompetence in the media to serve as any sort of check on the propaganda we were subjected to. There was incompetence in much of the Democratic Party to be a real opposition party. However, this does not excuse the fact that most of the blame lies at the feet of the administration who lied and deceived to implement a policy that they were clearly pursuing for reasons other than the stated reasons. It amazes me that those of us who were documenting the ways in which this administration was lying and deceiving us about Iraq **as it was happening** in the lead-up to the war are now being told that we weren’t being deceived or lied to even though the truth turned out to be even further away from the what the Adminstration was claiming than many of us even imagined. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-leading-democrats-also-thought-saddam-had-wmd-programs/327569/79 "2005-10-24T23:03:32Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > [That ain’t what Bush said](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/09/20020919-1.html) Look, Congress votes on legislation and resolutions, not on some throw-away line in a presidential press conference. It’s called the “Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002”, not the “Authorization for Keeping the Peace Resolution of 2002”. And some Senators were “smart” enough to figure that out. Again, from Sen. Feingold: > [@](#): > > Mr. President, for some of these, we may well be willing to send some 250,000 Americans in harm’s way. For others, frankly, probably not. These litanies of various justifications – whether the original draft resolution, the new White House resolution, or regrettably throughout the President’s speech in Cincinnati – in my view set the bar for an alternative to a U.S. invasion so high that, Mr. President, I’m afraid it almost locks in – it almost requires – a potentially extreme and reckless solution to these problems. To say that Congress turned over to the president its authority to declare war in hopes that the president wouldn’t use that authority is laughable one the face of it. Any Senator who believes that has no business in the Senate. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-leading-democrats-also-thought-saddam-had-wmd-programs/327569/80 "2005-10-24T23:29:13Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > I guess I’ve never understood why this is such an important point for the Dems/anti-war crowd. Its like they want to revise history so that its ONLY those lieing Republicans who thought Saddam had WMD. Why is it so important to change things so that this is so, or to attempt to jump through logical hoops when folks are on record as believing Iraq had the things?? > > The point (or what I’d think is the point) is that the information was wrong…and the president is ultimately responsible for taking us to war on wrong information. Oh, Congress and the Senate come in for their share too, but it was the president who pushed for war…on bad info. Whether or not everyone believed, no one believed or something inbetween, it makes no difference…Bush was the president, he committed the US to war, a war that is still dragging on, and he did so on information that was wrong. He’s responsible. > > -XT As I see it there are 2 points: 1: There is an order of difference in passively _believing_, on the one hand: - “yes Saddam probably does have them and the President with all the intelligence at his disposal informs us this is the case, so we accept that.” and _arguing_ on the other hand as the President did: - “Saddam right now presents a real threat to the security of the US on the scale of Sept 11 so we have to attack Now, Now, Now.” 2: The point is _not_ that the President was wrong. There is an order of difference in, on the one hand acting in good faith on the best intelligence available at the time, and on the other hand, participating in an orchestrated campaign of deceit to further a particular end, whatever the evidence at hand. It is the efforts of the GOP to paint the President’s actions as ‘acting in good faith’ which motivates the opposition to put on the historical record that this argument is completely contrary to the evidence. It is such claims as “everyone believed he had them” that make up the GOP’s attempts to re-write and distort the historical record. In fact the OP is attempting exactly that distortion, following his cue from Republican Central. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-leading-democrats-also-thought-saddam-had-wmd-programs/327569.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-leading-democrats-also-thought-saddam-had-wmd-programs/327569.md?page=5)