# Which names for sports teams do you find offensive? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 24, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-names-for-sports-teams-do-you-find-offensive/669604 "2013-09-24T23:21:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-names-for-sports-teams-do-you-find-offensive/669604/21 "2013-09-25T15:19:27Z")
What royalty are “Real Salt Lake” supposed to be named after? ---
**Author:** ![mcgato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac8455/32.png) [@mcgato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mcgato)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-names-for-sports-teams-do-you-find-offensive/669604/22 "2013-09-25T15:44:49Z")
I’m pretty offended by the nickname Vikings. But that is more for the shitty play of the Minnesota Vikings this year. There is a curious [article on the ESPN website by Rick Reilly](http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9689220/redskins-name-change-not-easy-sounds) which mentions that a number of predominantly native american schools currently use the nickname “Redskins,” so they don’t find it offensive. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-names-for-sports-teams-do-you-find-offensive/669604/23 "2013-09-25T15:50:55Z")
Yankees. ---
**Author:** ![TheChileanBlob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thechileanblob/32/435_2.png) [@TheChileanBlob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheChileanBlob)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-names-for-sports-teams-do-you-find-offensive/669604/24 "2013-09-25T15:51:12Z")
What’s wrong with Orangemen? No one’s really orange except those Jersey Shore people. Besides, Syracuse has been the Orange since 2004. ---
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-names-for-sports-teams-do-you-find-offensive/669604/25 "2013-09-25T16:01:43Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > I think Redskins is the most offensive. Am I personally offended? Not really, but I think it needs to be changed. It is an offensive term. > > The Cleveland Indians’ logo is also offensive and needs to go. I’m not offended personally by any of them but I understand why Redskins is offensive, it’s an oft-used derogatory term used to describe a people. > [@RealityChuck](#): > > My high school team nickname was “The First Settlers,” so I don’t see how “Indians” is any more or less offensive. Oh, not offensive at all … if they were actually from India. Funny, usually during these “discussions” someone always chimes in about the Chicago Blackhawks. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-names-for-sports-teams-do-you-find-offensive/669604/26 "2013-09-25T16:08:34Z")
> [@mcgato](#): > > There is a curious [article on the ESPN website by Rick Reilly](http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9689220/redskins-name-change-not-easy-sounds) which mentions that a number of predominantly native american schools currently use the nickname “Redskins,” so they don’t find it offensive. Thanks for the link. I think the context is a little different for the Washington Redskins, who have no Native members and no historical connection to real Native Americans, but it at least illustrates that the term is used non-pejoratively by some Native people. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-names-for-sports-teams-do-you-find-offensive/669604/27 "2013-09-25T16:18:14Z")
Redskins and redmen are a little over the line and I think both are mildly offensive, about on the same level as “The Fighting Coloreds” would be. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-names-for-sports-teams-do-you-find-offensive/669604/28 "2013-09-25T16:30:37Z")
> [@TheChileanBlob](#): > > What’s wrong with Orangemen? No one’s really orange except those Jersey Shore people. Besides, Syracuse has been the Orange since 2004. Syracuse is in upstate New York, which used to belong to the Dutch. The royal family of the Netherlands is the House of Orange. New York is filled with towns, counties, rivers, hills, and neighborhoods with Dutch or Dutch-inspired names. Likewise, the orange uniforms of the Syracuse athletes are a tribute to the Dutch royal family. The athletes are Orangemen because they wear orange uniforms, NOT because of any one who has or had orange skin. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-names-for-sports-teams-do-you-find-offensive/669604/29 "2013-09-25T16:31:22Z")
> [@mcgato](#): > > There is a curious [article on the ESPN website by Rick Reilly](http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9689220/redskins-name-change-not-easy-sounds) which mentions that a number of predominantly native american schools currently use the nickname “Redskins,” so they don’t find it offensive. Pretty good article. Thanks for the link. Still, I draw a distinction between a team that is predominantly one race calling themselves an inoffensive label for that race, and a team totally unrelated calling themselves that. If a high school team really is in the heart of some tribe’s population, then ‘Redmen’ or ‘Redskins’ is really up to them. In the Negro Leagues, teams could call themselves The Black Barons, or the Black Yankees, or the Ethiopian Clowns, because they \*were \*predominantly black (with some Latinos, true). But a team of mixed typical American colors calling themselves the Black Barons (where “black” clearly meant the race)? That’s over the line to me. Or if the Canucks were a US team, or the Yankees in Mexico, I’d have a similar problem. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-names-for-sports-teams-do-you-find-offensive/669604/30 "2013-09-25T17:04:05Z")
> [@Mince](#): > > To idiots who don’t understand life, sure. Let’s avoid calling others names and posts like this, in general. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-names-for-sports-teams-do-you-find-offensive/669604/31 "2013-09-25T17:08:36Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > On the topic of Native American names, things like the Braves name aren’t offensive, but that Tomahawk Chop thing is stupid. > > Florida State Seminoles were given the blessing of the tribe. Interestingly, the Chop was imported to Atlanta from Florida State. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Greenjeans](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.greenjeans/32/551_2.png) [@Mr.Greenjeans](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Greenjeans)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-names-for-sports-teams-do-you-find-offensive/669604/32 "2013-09-25T17:13:35Z")
> [@bibliophage](#): > > No option for the [Fighting Whites](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighting_Whites)? The team logo in the link says they’re the **Fightin’ Whities** , which makes me think of unruly underwear. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-names-for-sports-teams-do-you-find-offensive/669604/33 "2013-09-25T17:16:13Z")
> [@TheChileanBlob](#): > > What’s wrong with Orangemen? No one’s really orange except those Jersey Shore people. Besides, Syracuse has been the Orange since 2004. [Orange Order](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_Order). Not much link between the two except that they’re both named after the same family, but the association is close enough for some. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-names-for-sports-teams-do-you-find-offensive/669604/34 "2013-09-25T17:23:57Z")
[QUOTE=mcgato] There is a curious article on the ESPN website by Rick Reilly which mentions that a number of predominantly native american schools currently use the nickname “Redskins,” so they don’t find it offensive. [/QUOTE] > [@Peremensoe](#): > > Thanks for the link. I think the context is a little different for the Washington Redskins, who have no Native members and no historical connection to real Native Americans, but it at least illustrates that the term is used non-pejoratively by some Native people. For another opinion, here’s [The Nation’s Dave Zirin](http://www.thenation.com/blog/176260/rick-reilly-and-most-irredeemably-stupid-defense-redskins-name-you-will-ever-read#). He not only attacks the column but viciously eviscerates Reilly so badly that you’ll probably never see those two invited to the same sports writers’ panel. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-names-for-sports-teams-do-you-find-offensive/669604/35 "2013-09-25T17:25:20Z")
The history of the name for the MLB Atlanta Braves is interesting. The club originated in Boston and it appears that after several other names they eventually chose “Braves” because the owner at the time was a member of Tammany Hall which used a stylized Indian chief as its emblem. It is notable that Tammany was named after a clan chief of the Lenni-Lenape nation, Tamanend. Given these origins, it is difficult to think that the term was ever meant in a derogatory manner. On the other hand, the name ‘Redskins’ is clearly racially derogatory. I find it offensive. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-names-for-sports-teams-do-you-find-offensive/669604/36 "2013-09-25T17:38:14Z")
I don’t find any of these personally offensive. Even something more egregious, like the “[Pekin Chinks](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pekin,_Illinois#High_school),” doesn’t offend me personally; but I can see why other people would be offended and I agree it’s insensitive and Not A Good Idea. > [@Gagundathar](#): > > On the other hand, the name ‘Redskins’ is clearly racially derogatory. I find it offensive. There’s nothing wrong with the name “Redskins” that changing the mascot to a severely sunburned white guy wouldn’t fix. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-names-for-sports-teams-do-you-find-offensive/669604/37 "2013-09-25T17:48:09Z")
> [@jcrenshaw](#): > > I find none of them offensive. I believe they were selected to HONOR the name that was selected. [George Preston Marshall, who named the NFL’s Washington you-know-whats, probably would have been disgusting if you suggested he was honoring Native Americans.](http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9376010/rename-washington-redskins) ---
**Author:** ![mcgato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac8455/32.png) [@mcgato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mcgato)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-names-for-sports-teams-do-you-find-offensive/669604/38 "2013-09-25T18:36:50Z")
> [@NDP](#): > > For another opinion, here’s [The Nation’s Dave Zirin](http://www.thenation.com/blog/176260/rick-reilly-and-most-irredeemably-stupid-defense-redskins-name-you-will-ever-read#). He not only attacks the column but viciously eviscerates Reilly so badly that you’ll probably never see those two invited to the same sports writers’ panel. Thanks for that opposing view. A very good read. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-names-for-sports-teams-do-you-find-offensive/669604/39 "2013-09-25T19:41:11Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Florida State Seminoles were given the blessing of the tribe. It’s interesting to note that after a spate of offensive mascots in the 50s, 60s, and early 70s, Chief Osceola and Renegade were created as “symbols” of the athletic program. The University does not refer to them as mascots and they do not perform traditional mascot-type cheerleading. In fact, FSU did not have an official mascot until last year when the awful Cimarron was reintroduced (to much mocking even from FSU fans). After some further controversy in the 80s, the leadership of the Seminole Tribe of Florida (Chairman James Billie and Council Member Max Osceola) blessed the depiction and went so far as to redesign the costume to make it more authentic. There are still some Tribe members who oppose the use of the name, so it’s not completely without controversy. Now, apparently the Seminole Tribe of Oklahoma does have a problem with it and I would strongly condemn any school in Oklahoma that used the name. However, I think the attitude of the University and the STOF is that it’s a Florida thing. Go 'Noles! ---
**Author:** ![Enright3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/enright3/32/2897_2.png) [@Enright3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enright3)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-names-for-sports-teams-do-you-find-offensive/669604/40 "2013-09-25T20:31:55Z")
> [@mcgato](#): > > Thanks for that opposing view. A very good read. Except it wasn’t really an opposing view; it was an article whose only purpose was to trash the Reilly’s article. Furthermore; I have decided to not hold any article in high journalistic regard that contains the line: “Like a poop in the pool, I think I’m just going to let that sit there and speak for itself.” I don’t think Dave Zirin is going to be compared anytime soon to Bob Woodward or Carl Bernstein. I think Reilly’s article made sense. It wasn’t written as some scholarly piece trying to prove that the Redskin name is not offensive; it was an opinion piece that (to me) made sense. If schools that are predominantly Indian, and they’re proud of their mascot; I think you have a good argument that it’s not offensive except to those who decide to be offended. :rolleyes: I don’t buy into the idea that it should be allowed in context. IOW Indian groups can use it, but non Indian groups can’t. That’s ridiculous. It’s either offensive or it’s not. It’s tied to the argument that black people can call themselves nigger, but white people can’t. No… that’s an offensive word. It’s not just offensive if non black people use it. Heck that was even proven in court when [a federal judge ruled that workplace use of the derogatory term ‘nigger’ is illegal](http://sandrarose.com/2013/09/federal-judge-rules-black-people-cant-use-n-word-in-workplace/), even if uttered by black people. With regards to Peremensoe’s comment about it being in context (even though I don’t agree), you could argue that the context to the name Redskin is meant to mean a strong and mighty warrior. How is that offensive? I think people choosing to be offended is now becoming the norm. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-names-for-sports-teams-do-you-find-offensive/669604.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-names-for-sports-teams-do-you-find-offensive/669604.md?page=3)