When they mean that it will be very difficult, what do they say?
If it’s clearly understood that “It’s very difficult” equals “it’s impossible”, how is saying “it’s very difficult” any less confrontational/offensive than saying “it’s impossible”?
Put another way, if we attach the signifier “it’s very difficult” to the signified “it’s impossible”, then I do not grasp why saying “it’s very difficult” (meaning that it’s impossible) is any different from saying “it’s impossible” (meaning that it’s impossible).
Kyla,
Did you ask point blank for advice? What would they asnwer?
No, it really does happen. Actually, it happens a lot. It is not uncommon that when you are praised, you deflect it to appear modest. For example, if someone says that your daughter/son is good looking, you respond with “not really” or “your daughter/son is better looking” or something like that. It does sound ridiculous if you aren’t familiar with the culture. When I was a kid, and I was taken to gatherings with family friends, all the other kids (bunch of abc’s) and I would secretly snicker whenever we watched our parents at it . We were all used to it; we knew our parents didn’t really mean that we’re not smart, good looking, talented, whatever…
I’ve actually never heard of this, and I don’t think this is the reason…
No, no. As Ishaw wrote: it really does happen. It is not unusual for East Asians to put themselves or their family members down to other people. They don’t really believe it, though. It’s like a game, really. A Chinese person (I don’t know about Japanese or Koreans but I assume they’re the same) knows that if he, for example, submits a work of art to a gallery or something, he must say that it isn’t that great. Probably in his heart and mind he thinks that his painting is really fucking awesome, but he has to feign an outward appearance of modesty. While doing this, he knows that the other guy is going to say, “No! This is a great painting!” even if that guy thinks it sucks.
I don’t believe that it’s about spirits or bad luck or anything like that. It’s just a cultural thing about “saving face.” That’s a lesson I learned early on in this country: if you think something (a restaurant, a school, a bar, a band, etc etc etc) totally sucks, just bite your tongue and say something nice when other people are around or else risk seriously offending the person/persons in question. Similarly, when someone praises you you should just say that you yourself suck or else risk looking like an asshole. At the same time, however, it’s cool because both you and your audience or talking partner know how you both really feel inside. It’s quite complicated.
Yep. Every morning my mother-in-law makes breakfast for my wife and I. She gets up at the crack of dawn and makes the most delicious meal you’ve ever had from scratch. While placing the dishes on the table she always says, “Oh, I’m so sorry. This meal is so bad. I could have made it so much better. It’s so awful,” which, of course, is our cue to tell her how delicious it is and how she worked so hard to make it and how much we appreciate it (but never tell her how much we love her. Very few Chinese ever say they love their parents).
It’s weird.
ETA: FWIW, it was later revealed that my girlfriend’s parents, who were always nice to me and rude to their daughter, absolutely hated me and, of course, loved her. Take from that what you will.
I have to say, that kind of attitude would have driven me straight up the wall. False modesty and fishing for compliments are a *lot *more annoying that outright bragging.
An outright refusal is considered to be very very very rude in many local cultures. If you say it is very difficult, the meaning would be understood perfectly by the person communicating it to you.
If you want to say “very difficult” as in “might be possible, but unlikely” you might add a qualifier, like “I could try” or you would say something along the lines of “it would be very challenging”.
It’s hard to say, talking from the inside . As far as we’re concerned, it’s *other *cultures that are weird, not us. We have a question, we ask it; we have an opinion, we state it; we think we can or can’t do something, we say so. What could be more normal than that?
I think it has something to do with the egalitarian nature of Israeli society - it’s not that we don’t have various socialeconomic classes and divisions, it’s that none of them think that any of the others are better than they are. As a result, deference comes very hard to us, and servility almost impossible. This informs the way we act in all environments, including the business world.
To put it another way: I can’t remember the last time I heard someone use the word “sir” non-sarcastically. And that includes my time in the military.
Its “I hear what you are saying, but I don’t agree with you” - in someone working for you (a Wipro contractor) they’ll do it and won’t say anything, but if you think the guy you are talking to is good, this is the point to ask questions about what HE or SHE would do.
I work for a Dutch boss that prides himself and his culture on their bluntness. He isn’t rude - he is just blunt.
This would explain a couple of Londoners that I met in New York, who were amazed at how open and friendly New Yorkers are. Funny, I found just the opposite.
Yeah, but then I would get a reaction like “what, why do you need help with this?” which made me avoid asking for help much in the future. I also got ignored by my bosses on a regular basis. For literally days and days, they wouldn’t even say hi, which made me feel really abandoned.
This was just a ten week summer internship, so pretty much by the time I realized that there were cultural conflicts in how I believed people should act in an office v. how they believed people should act in an office, my time was pretty much over. I probably would have gotten more done in my internship if I had been aware of these issues ahead of time, but that’s my own fault, I guess.
Regarding Israelis, they just don’t really have much of a filter between their brains and their mouths. There’s not a lot of “hmm, maybe I shouldn’t voice this opinion because it might offend someone”. Get a new haircut and your Israeli friend doesn’t like it? He’ll probably tell you so. Someone thinks your political opinion is dumb? Be prepared to be told it’s dumb. It can be very startling for an outsider. I lived in Israel for eleven months and it was hard readjusting to American levels of tact when I got home.
Alessan, I don’t think I ever learned how to say “Mr” or “Mrs” in Hebrew. Well, I think “Mr” is mar, but that always seems like a weird abbreviation of the English word. And since I don’t think I ever actually heard anyone say it, I’m not clear on how correct it is.
That is not being blunt, it is to ward off misfortune coming from boasting about something. If they denigrate the quality of the food, or the aspects of a son or daughter, it is to ward off the gods/spirits punishing them.
I had a couple of chinese aunties growing up that were college roommates of my grandmother. My mom was aghast when they were out with a bunch of other chinese and my grandmother and my grandmother and auntie Bei Ching called me an ugly little monkey when showing me off to the whole mahjong bunch. It got quietly explained to her why it was done =)
This is not a blunt statement of fact or personal belief, its just an insult, and it is neither inventive, nor relevant. It isn’t even that good an insult either - sort of thing that those with less conversational acuity might use with their limited vocabulary.
“You’re full of shit” is a personal opinion, which can be taken as insulting, but it is primarily an opinion.It isn’t all that inventive either, but sometimes brevity is effective, especially if it is used to shortcut all the bullshit.
The most offensive thing for almost any Northerner, let alone a Yorkshireperson, is to feel they are being talked down to, or patronised, and especially by some smug Southern git. Strikes me that to obtain the response you got from your client you may well have (unintentionally) come across as smug and superior.
I am not all that proud of the following (since it betrays limited social skills) but had you taken those manners around this town, you’d be flat on your back right quick.
Keep it direct and allow your client to use their own imagination.
I seriously doubt this. Most Chinese people these days don’t believe in “gods” or “spirits,” especially not educated ones like my ex-girlfriend’s parents (both professors). This may have been the traditional explanation for it, but I don’t think it still holds true nowadays. Her father and mother were both pretty outspoken atheists IIRC. And my mother-in-law certaintly doesn’t have gods on the mind when she’s doing her whole “my-food-is-so-terrible” thing.
Actually I took Captains post as a joke along the lines of if a thread mentions something that annoys people then somebody will immediately post something in that very style.
As I didn’t take it as a genuine insult I made a joking reply, didn’t think that I’d have to stoop to adding a smiley.
But looking at your response maybe HIsHers post wasn’t a joke and you yorkies are even more insecure and thin skinned then people thought.
As I said those people who pride themselves on being “blunt” and “down to Earth” because they get a cheap thrill out of being rude; really, really don’t like it when they get a taste of their own medecine.
As to the Walter Mitty threats made from the safety of cyber space you have nothing but my complete and utter contempt.
Theres nothing like yorkshire for breeding dyed in the wool cowards.
A good thing about being up there when your a southerner is the yorkie women love us, makes a pleasant (and sexually satisfying) change for them.
For any other yorkies with inferiority complexes,
(though is an actuality a complex; strictly speaking, I wonder?)
or otherwise suffering from low self esteem and who have had their feelings hurt …
Tough luck, live with it and post your immature and febrile rants to the hand.
Because the head aint listening.
(Have actually been to Castleford and it wasn’t that bad, and no I’m not being sarcastic)
Dude, you’re just embarrassing yourself. I’ve already said I’m not from Yorkshire.
Is this an insult or a compliment? I can understand why the Tyke in your original myth/lie/tale took offence. Why would Castleford be bad? There’s nothing quite like a parochial southerner, is there?