# Which nations still have mandatory military service? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 1, 2005, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-nations-still-have-mandatory-military-service/301956 "2005-05-01T16:45:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2005, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-nations-still-have-mandatory-military-service/301956/1 "2005-05-01T16:45:11Z")
The subject pretty much says it all. I’m interested both in obviously militaristic nations like, say, Iran, and in less likely ones. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2005, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-nations-still-have-mandatory-military-service/301956/2 "2005-05-01T16:47:56Z")
> [@Speaker for the Dead](#): > > I’m interested both in obviously militaristic nations like, say, Iran, and in less likely ones. Like Switzerland? ---
**Author:** ![jimmmy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@jimmmy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimmmy)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2005, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-nations-still-have-mandatory-military-service/301956/3 "2005-05-01T16:52:08Z")
link pretty much says it all > **[Conscription](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription#Countries_with_mandatory_military_service)** > > Conscription (sometimes called the draft in the United States) is the mandatory enlistment of people in a national service, most often a military service. Conscription dates back to antiquity and it continues in some countries to the present day under various names. The modern system of near-universal national conscription for young men dates to the French Revolution in the 1790s, where it became the basis of a very large and powerful military. Most European nations later copied the system in Co... ---
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2005, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-nations-still-have-mandatory-military-service/301956/4 "2005-05-01T16:52:34Z")
Oh, I intended to clarify a little. By “mandatory military service,” I mean laws similar to those found in both France and Germany prior to the First World War. All men of military age were drafted so as to create a large pool of trained men that could be recalled in the event of a war. ---
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2005, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-nations-still-have-mandatory-military-service/301956/5 "2005-05-01T16:56:00Z")
> [@jimmmy](#): > > link pretty much says it all > > [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription#Countries\_with\_mandatory\_military\_service](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription#Countries_with_mandatory_military_service) Oh. Thanks. :smack:. ---
**Author:** ![kellner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c2a13f/32.png) [@kellner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kellner)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2005, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-nations-still-have-mandatory-military-service/301956/6 "2005-05-01T17:13:07Z")
Germany has mandatory military service. However in recent years not all males are actually drafted as a result of the reduction of the armed forces after the end of the cold war. There is also a system of alternative “civilian service” for conscientious objectors, and if you object, you will definitely be drafted because those objectors are desperately needed in many institutions. > [@](#): > > Oh, I intended to clarify a little. By “mandatory military service,” I mean laws similar to those found in both France and Germany prior to the First World War. All men of military age were drafted so as to create a large pool of trained men that could be recalled in the event of a war. Among a few other things, this is still part of the idea in Germany. The objectors will be used for various unarmed roles if a full-scale war breaks out. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2005, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-nations-still-have-mandatory-military-service/301956/7 "2005-05-01T17:23:07Z")
> [@kellner](#): > > Germany has mandatory military service. However in recent years not all males are actually drafted as a result of the reduction of the armed forces after the end of the cold war. There is also a system of alternative “civilian service” for conscientious objectors, and if you object, you will definitely be drafted because those objectors are desperately needed in many institutions. A German friend of mine didn’t want to do the military thing, so he spent his time working in, i think, a convalescent or nursing home of some sort. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2005, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-nations-still-have-mandatory-military-service/301956/8 "2005-05-01T17:29:46Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > A German friend of mine didn’t want to do the military thing, so he spent his time working in, i think, a convalescent or nursing home of some sort. One of my German friends worked in a recreation center for handicapped children. Haj ---
**Author:** ![Tabby\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tabby\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabby_Cat)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2005, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-nations-still-have-mandatory-military-service/301956/9 "2005-05-01T17:35:46Z")
Yeah, I was one of those 30 month suckers in Singapore. Gosh darnit. I’m not altogether able-bodied, though, so I was basically a database administrator… Doesn’t mean I don’t know how to shoot an M16 or throw a grenade, though. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2005, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-nations-still-have-mandatory-military-service/301956/10 "2005-05-01T18:57:47Z")
> [@Tabby\_Cat](#): > > Yeah, I was one of those 30 month suckers in Singapore. Gosh darnit. I’m not altogether able-bodied, though, so I was basically a database administrator… Doesn’t mean I don’t know how to shoot an M16 or throw a grenade, though. 😉 Wasn’t the Singaporean draft system originally based on the Israeli system? I seem to remember stories of Israeli officers flying over in the 60’s or 70’s to help you guys set it up. Anyway, Israel still has a draft, obviosly. It’s unique in several ways: 1. The basic service is very long - 36 months for males, longer for officers and other special positions. 2. It’s the only one in the world that regularly drafts women. 3. Exemptions are granted for religious reasons (Yeshiva students) ethnic reasons (Muslim or Christian Arabs - but not Beduins), and physical and mental grounds. There are no exemptions gven for conscienscious reasons, but it’s reasonably easy to get out on mental grounds. Basically, whoever really wants to can get out; most choose to serve. ---
**Author:** ![Tabby\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tabby\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabby_Cat)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2005, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-nations-still-have-mandatory-military-service/301956/11 "2005-05-01T19:16:44Z")
Yeah, it was… the Israellis set up the Singaporean system way back when, training the first batch of recruits, and they had the reputation for being the meanest sumbitches ever to grace the earth. 😛 Have to say that it seems like the system’s gone a bit soft, though. Can’t be helped, there’s no real threat (well, apart from the whole confrontasi thing back in the 80s) now, and the recruits just look at it as if it were a complete waste of time. My SO and I are the same age, but she’s already working, and I’m still a lousy student - hasn’t brought many problems so far, but it’s annoying nonetheless. I guess Israel doesn’t really have that problem. No problem with finding a “real threat” to be traning for, too… ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2005, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-nations-still-have-mandatory-military-service/301956/12 "2005-05-01T19:30:12Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > One of my German friends worked in a recreation center for handicapped children. > > Haj Being a conscientious objector too (in France), I used to work in a half-public organization providing various services for various social institutions (mostly institutions in charge of handicapped children). The catch was that the mandatory service as a conscientious objector was 2 years long (instead of only one year in the military). The last conscripts in france left thearmy one year ago or so (the mandatory military service has been abolished several years ago, but some had delayed their service for various reasons). As paradoxal as it might seem, despite being a conscientious objector, I wasn’t enthralled by the mandatory service being abolished. I’m of a shared mind about a fully professional army. There’s something about a people’s army that sounds more right in a democracy. (And history proved at least once that my feeling isn’t completely off-base. At the end of the Algeria war, some general opposed to the independance of Algeria tried to organize a coup. Most of the conscripts refused to follow them (while a large of the professionnal soldiers did) , and their coup attempt failed.) ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2005, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-nations-still-have-mandatory-military-service/301956/13 "2005-05-01T19:35:51Z")
There’s something weird about being a conscientious objector for someon from my generation. Essentially all french males share a common memory of “juteux”(the hated french equivalent of a drill sergeant) , of digging holes in the snow, of getting bored in the barracks in Germany, and so on… That’s a collective memory that I don’t share (though now it is going to dissapear, anyway…) ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2005, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-nations-still-have-mandatory-military-service/301956/14 "2005-05-01T19:46:24Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > (And history proved at least once that my feeling isn’t completely off-base. At the end of the Algeria war, some general opposed to the independance of Algeria tried to organize a coup. Most of the conscripts refused to follow them (while a large of the professionnal soldiers did) , and their coup attempt failed.) Similar situations occured in 1991 in the Soviet Union and in Spain after Franco’s death. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2005, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-nations-still-have-mandatory-military-service/301956/15 "2005-05-01T19:55:30Z")
I would add that in the french sysem, the former conscripts could be called back for short periods at any time during the following years (I’m not sure until what age, but it could last for many years). Most were never called back, but being called back once was generally bad news. It meant that you’d be likely to be called back again and again. mostly, it was people who had been taught some specific competence, had been promoted as reserve NCOs, or trained as reserve commissioned oficers. (One of my friends, who served in the signals, was called back all the time, until his actions (a trap he had set up) resulted in a chopper (with a general in it) being seriously damaged at landing. He had some s’plaigning to do and was never called back again.) By the way, contrarily to the mention in the wikipedia cite, I heard of at least one case of a conscript who was sent in a war zone without volunteering (during the Chad war, and because he had previously served in the algerian army during desert operations for a couple years). Also, some conscripts were affected to units that were expected to be sent overseas or in war zones (alpine troops, paratroopers, for instance), though I think you had to ask for it in order to be enlisted in such an unit. Finally, people serving in the navy could de facto be sent overseas (of course) or in war zones. It’s not like they were going to get rid of 1/3 of the ship mates before sending a ship somewhere. So, the cite, though on the overall true, isn’t perfectly accurate. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2005, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-nations-still-have-mandatory-military-service/301956/16 "2005-05-01T19:56:34Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Similar situations occured in 1991 in the Soviet Union and in Spain after Franco’s death. So, maybe a conscription army isn’t that bad an idea, all things considered… ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-nations-still-have-mandatory-military-service/301956/17 "2005-05-02T06:30:34Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > A German friend of mine didn’t want to do the military thing, so he spent his time working in, i think, a convalescent or nursing home of some sort. Out of curiosity, what happens in German if a man refuses to serve in the military _or_ perform alternative service? Do they get sent to prison? ---
**Author:** ![kellner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c2a13f/32.png) [@kellner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kellner)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-nations-still-have-mandatory-military-service/301956/18 "2005-05-02T10:08:56Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Out of curiosity, what happens in German if a man refuses to serve in the military _or_ perform alternative service? Do they get sent to prison? In principle yes, but usually they get off with probation. The details also depends on which of the two you dodge. If you get recognized as a conscientious objector first, they will “just” sue you. If you don’t, Military Police will get you and you will be put under arrest for a while and _then_ they will sue you. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-nations-still-have-mandatory-military-service/301956/19 "2005-05-02T12:32:52Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Out of curiosity, what happens in German if a man refuses to serve in the military _or_ perform alternative service? Do they get sent to prison? In Switzerland they do the one thing that all good Swiss fear the most: charge extra tax! Apparently this also applies to men of a certain age (18-40?) that cannot fulfill their military obligations. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-nations-still-have-mandatory-military-service/301956/20 "2005-05-02T15:02:08Z")
> [@](#): > > In accordance with Swiss law, every Swiss male must fulfil military service obligations from the age of 18. This principle also applies to Swiss men who reside abroad. However, allowance is made for their particular situation and the military obligations of Swiss nationals living abroad are governed by separate regulations. > > Swiss men (aged 18 to 42) who are subject to military service obligations and who live abroad for an uninterrupted period of more than 12 months require an “Auslandurlaub” (exemption from service while abroad). They must apply for this from the relevant District Command (Kreiskommando) and then notify the Section Controller (Sektionskontrollführer) of their departure. The service booklet is deposited with the District Commander. Persons living abroad who are in possession of these papers are exempt from military service for the duration of the period spent abroad. Every Swiss male who does not fulfil his military obligations, or only partially fulfils them, through military service must pay a duty in place of military service. When exemption papers are issued, a adequate duty is levied from the District Command. > > In principle Swiss men in possession of the appropriate exemption are obliged to register abroad until the end of the calendar year in which they have lived abroad for an uninterrupted period of three years. They must register with the Swiss diplomatic post responsible for their place of residence one month at the latest after their departure from Switzerland, and must present their exemption papers. If the period abroad does not exceed 2 years the person may remain registered with the Section Controller. > > Young Swiss men registered with the relevant diplomatic post are required to register individually in the year in which they reach their 18th birthday. If they can show that they have lived abroad for more than 3 years they receive a fact sheet on military service (Wehrpflichtblatt) which informs them of their military obligations, particularly if they take up residence in Switzerland. As long as they live abroad, they do not have any military obligations. > > It is possible for young Swiss men to complete the 15-week course at military training school (“Rekrutenschule”) on a voluntary basis. This usually takes place at the age of 18. However voluntary attendance at military training school is subject to various conditions; in particular applicants may not be nationals of the state in which they reside. Further information is available from Swiss diplomatic posts. Above is from a Swiss Embassy site.