# Which Nobel Prize winners were/are also war criminals? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 21, 2015, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-nobel-prize-winners-were-are-also-war-criminals/718153 "2015-04-21T00:22:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![jezzaOZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9a28c/32.png) [@jezzaOZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jezzaOZ)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-nobel-prize-winners-were-are-also-war-criminals/718153/1 "2015-04-21T00:22:55Z")
I’m sure the list is very and often political - due in part to the political nature of the awards. They don’t have to be convicted of war crimes. Just that their activities would by todays standards result in war crimes charges if they were captured by the enemy. I’ll kick of with Fritz Haber who strongly promoted the use of chlorine gas warfare in the Great War. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-nobel-prize-winners-were-are-also-war-criminals/718153/2 "2015-04-21T00:58:16Z")
Kissinger, Arafat ---
**Author:** ![jezzaOZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9a28c/32.png) [@jezzaOZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jezzaOZ)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-nobel-prize-winners-were-are-also-war-criminals/718153/3 "2015-04-21T01:49:18Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Kissinger, Arafat If you are going to throw in Arafat (dubious) you surely will have to add Menachem Begin who personally ordered the murder of the two British Sergeants as part of a general plan to kidnap and murder British soldiers. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e79b87/32.png) [@The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Joker_and_the_Thief)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-nobel-prize-winners-were-are-also-war-criminals/718153/4 "2015-04-21T02:01:39Z")
If we’re just throwing out politicians who have done morally dubious things, Nelson Mandela helped found an organization that would be classified as terrorist by the United States. And Barack Obama has been called a war criminal by some on the left and right fringes. ‘War criminal’ is not a precisely defined term, so I’m not really sure why you expect a strict list to exist. ---
**Author:** ![jezzaOZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9a28c/32.png) [@jezzaOZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jezzaOZ)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-nobel-prize-winners-were-are-also-war-criminals/718153/5 "2015-04-21T03:04:50Z")
> [@The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](#): > > If we’re just throwing out politicians who have done morally dubious things, Nelson Mandela helped found an organization that would be classified as terrorist by the United States. And Barack Obama has been called a war criminal by some on the left and right fringes. ‘War criminal’ is not a precisely defined term, so I’m not really sure why you expect a strict list to exist. Let’s define war criminal to be either they would have been charged of the crimes in their own time, or in the present day using more modern criteria. Haber is included for his advocacy and technical support in a leadership role in the use of chemicals as weapons of mass destruction. Begin is pretty straight forward. Murdering hostages for political reasons is clearly a war crime. I have a sneaking suspicion that Roosevelt should be in there too? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-nobel-prize-winners-were-are-also-war-criminals/718153/6 "2015-04-21T04:16:14Z")
Mandela. Begin. Peres. Arafat. They were pretty much criminals by any reasonable defination of the term. Now whether or not the activities were justified is a separate question. If you want criminally assholish, then James Watson. ---
**Author:** ![jezzaOZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9a28c/32.png) [@jezzaOZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jezzaOZ)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-nobel-prize-winners-were-are-also-war-criminals/718153/7 "2015-04-21T05:08:19Z")
Winston Churchill Theodore Roosevelt Ernest Hemingway Thomas Mann Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn Albert Lutuli Henry Kissinger Andrei Sakharov Mother Teresa Desmond Tutu Nelson Mandela Yitzakh Rabin Barack Obama ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-nobel-prize-winners-were-are-also-war-criminals/718153/8 "2015-04-21T05:14:19Z")
Ernest Hemingway? What war crimes do you feel somebody could accuse him of? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-nobel-prize-winners-were-are-also-war-criminals/718153/9 "2015-04-21T05:15:19Z")
I’m no fan of Mother Teresa, but I’m struggling to come up with what she did that would even approach being a war crime. ---
**Author:** ![jezzaOZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9a28c/32.png) [@jezzaOZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jezzaOZ)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-nobel-prize-winners-were-are-also-war-criminals/718153/10 "2015-04-21T05:22:57Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > I’m no fan of Mother Teresa, but I’m struggling to come up with what she did that would even approach being a war crime. I put her in to see if anybody noticed 🙂 Actually she was a pretty nasty sort and people dying on her weren’t a big concern. Only their souls. (My sister worked for her for a while) ---
**Author:** ![jezzaOZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9a28c/32.png) [@jezzaOZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jezzaOZ)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-nobel-prize-winners-were-are-also-war-criminals/718153/11 "2015-04-21T05:29:22Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Ernest Hemingway? What war crimes do you feel somebody could accuse him of? He was a foreign civilian combatant in Spain during the Civil War and would have been executed if he was captured. Then in WW-II he went to France as a civilian and commanded a French Partisan Group. He would again have been shot by the Germans if captured. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-nobel-prize-winners-were-are-also-war-criminals/718153/12 "2015-04-21T06:29:12Z")
Obama = “maybe” > **[The Obama administration may be guilty of war crimes | Jeffrey Bachman](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/05/obama-administration-drone-strikes-war-crimes)** > > Jeffrey Bachman: Reports on US drone strikes suggest White House policy violates international law. If so, they should be held accountable "Going beyond the examination of individual strikes, President Obama has utilized tactics that inherently violate the laws of war. These include the use of so-called “signature strikes” and “double taps”. According to Amnesty International: Under international humanitarian law, US drone operators must at all times abide by the principle of distinction; namely distinguish between civilians and combatants … All feasible precautions must be taken in determining whether a person is a civilian … In case of doubt, the person must be presumed to be protected against direct attack. Signature strikes target individuals for death based not on the confirmed identity or activities of the targets, but rather “behavioral characteristics” identified as those typical of militants. This is a clear violation of the principle of distinction. " ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-nobel-prize-winners-were-are-also-war-criminals/718153/13 "2015-04-21T08:45:29Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Ernest Hemingway? What war crimes do you feel somebody could accuse him of? > [@](#): > > “Hemingway hailed Castro’s revolution as ‘very pure and beautiful,'” Fontova said. “He was also a guest of honor at many of Che Guevara’s firing squad massacres. Hemingway loved to watch Che’s firing squads murder hundreds of Cubans. Hemingway would watch the massacres from a picnic chair while sipping Daiquiris. Probably not something you could charge him for, but certainly he was war crime-adjacent. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-nobel-prize-winners-were-are-also-war-criminals/718153/14 "2015-04-21T08:57:11Z")
Anyone who’s ever lead a nation or commanded an army during wartime is guilty of war crimes. That’s just the way it is. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-nobel-prize-winners-were-are-also-war-criminals/718153/15 "2015-04-21T08:58:36Z")
**Moderator Action** Whether or not someone qualifies as a war criminal in this thread seems to be a matter of opinion, or maybe debate, which makes this more suited for IMHO or GD. Since I’m not seeing enough of a debate here for GD, let’s try IMHO. Moving thread from General Questions to In My Humble Opinion. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-nobel-prize-winners-were-are-also-war-criminals/718153/16 "2015-04-21T16:52:33Z")
> [@jezzaOZ](#): > > He was a foreign civilian combatant in Spain during the Civil War and would have been executed if he was captured. > > Then in WW-II he went to France as a civilian and commanded a French Partisan Group. He would again have been shot by the Germans if captured. I think we have to define what we mean by “war criminal.” Someone who is simply not protected by the rules of war - such as a mercenary, or a spy - may not be protected by the Geneva Convention or similar laws, but they are not really what the term “war criminal” is generally meant to describe. A partisan who disguises their status as a combatant isn’t breaking the law of war; they are, however, not protected by the Geneva Convention and so do not have to be treated as prisoners of war. So it’s not so much that they are criminals as that you’re not a criminal if you shoot them. During WWII my paternal grandfather was shot down over Holland and fought with the Resistance. He was captured and scheduled to be hanged, an event fortunately interrupted by the Allies rolling over the town before the hanging could be carried out. He wasn’t a “War criminal.” However, had they hanged him, they guys who strung him up wouldn’t have been, either. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-nobel-prize-winners-were-are-also-war-criminals/718153/17 "2015-04-21T16:57:14Z")
If we’re going to call Kissinger a war criminal, we pretty much have to hang the same title on co-recipient Le Duc Tho. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-nobel-prize-winners-were-are-also-war-criminals/718153/18 "2015-04-21T17:11:48Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Obama = “maybe” > > [The Obama administration may be guilty of war crimes | Jeffrey Bachman | The Guardian](http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/05/obama-administration-drone-strikes-war-crimes) > > "Going beyond the examination of individual strikes, President Obama has utilized tactics that inherently violate the laws of war. These include the use of so-called “signature strikes” and “double taps”. According to Amnesty International: > > Under international humanitarian law, US drone operators must at all times abide by the principle of distinction; namely distinguish between civilians and combatants … All feasible precautions must be taken in determining whether a person is a civilian … In case of doubt, the person must be presumed to be protected against direct attack. > > Signature strikes target individuals for death based not on the confirmed identity or activities of the targets, but rather “behavioral characteristics” identified as those typical of militants. This is a clear violation of the principle of distinction. " Obama = Yes, definitely. There’s a public image that these drones are striking some kind of James Bond-esque supervillain layers. But the reality is that they’re usually just striking someone’s house. Supposedly a house where a terrorist is living. Unfortunately, there seems to be little concern about collateral damage. Wives, children, neighbors – anybody who gets killed in the strike is assumed to be a terrorist. BTW, a “double tap” strike is where they wait for people to respond to the first strike, and then strike _them_. Because if the World Trade Center & Boston Marathon bombings taught us anything, it’s that good people never respond to bloody explosions by trying to help any survivors. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-nobel-prize-winners-were-are-also-war-criminals/718153/19 "2015-04-21T17:15:30Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Anyone who’s ever lead a nation or commanded an army during wartime is guilty of war crimes. That’s just the way it is. You forgot to add “and lost”. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-nobel-prize-winners-were-are-also-war-criminals/718153/20 "2015-04-21T20:25:07Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > You forgot to add “and lost”. True that. This is the textbook example of history being written by the winners. In a truly just world, the Allied commanders who approved the firebombings of Dresden & Tokyo would have been hung right next to the Nazi war criminals. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-nobel-prize-winners-were-are-also-war-criminals/718153.md?page=2)