# Which of Bob Dylan's lyrics are actually good? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 23, 2009, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-bob-dylans-lyrics-are-actually-good/482724 "2009-01-23T22:33:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-bob-dylans-lyrics-are-actually-good/482724/81 "2009-01-26T18:24:50Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > Frankly, I wouldn’t bother going that route. You’ll never understand Dylan via cover versions. If you can’t handle Dylan’s voice, maybe he’s just not for you. No blame. Here’s my usual rant about Dylan as singer: [rant snipped]. I agree with your rant. The only exception that I would make would be The Band. Music From the Big Pink is essentially an album co-written by Dylan with a lot of songs that Dylan himself would perform live. I would say that if you want an introduction to Dylan that isn’t acutally Dylan get [Music From the Big Pink](http://www.amazon.com/Music-Big-Pink-Band/dp/B00004W50T/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1232993612&sr=8-1)and then [The Basement Tapes](http://www.amazon.com/Basement-Tapes-Bob-Dylan-Band/dp/B000002552/ref=pd_sim_m_2). Sort of ease your way in that way. Then, once you feel like you might be able to get into his voice get [Blood on the Tracks](http://www.amazon.com/Blood-Tracks-Bob-Dylan/dp/B00026WU7I/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1232993976&sr=1-1). It’s shorter than other classics like [Blonde on Blonde](http://www.amazon.com/Blonde-Bob-Dylan/dp/B00026WU8M/ref=pd_bxgy_m_img_b) and is, I think, a little bit more accessable to people who might be but off by the “Dylaniness” of his other stuff like say [Highway 61 Revisited](http://www.amazon.com/Highway-61-Revisited-Bob-Dylan/dp/B00026WU82/ref=pd_bxgy_m_img_b). Then go out and get [Biograph](http://www.amazon.com/Biograph-Bob-Dylan/dp/B000008TFC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1232994121&sr=1-1). I can’t think of a better intro to Dylan than that set. But you are going to want to be sure you can handle it before you dive into a retrospective of any sort. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-bob-dylans-lyrics-are-actually-good/482724/82 "2009-01-26T19:08:10Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > I agree with your rant. The only exception that I would make would be The Band. Good point. Big Pink-era Band is sort of “honorary Dylan.” I don’t even mind all the studio outtakes they stuck onto _The Basement Tapes_. False advertising, maybe, but the results are nonetheless wonderful. ---
**Author:** ![Mariemarie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/58f4c7/32.png) [@Mariemarie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mariemarie)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-bob-dylans-lyrics-are-actually-good/482724/83 "2009-01-26T19:18:21Z")
I just want to check in as someone who loves Dylan’s voice. But then I like Arethra Franklin’s voice too, so… ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-bob-dylans-lyrics-are-actually-good/482724/84 "2009-01-26T19:21:58Z")
What about Manfred Mann’s Quinn The Eskimo? Hendrix’s All Around the Watchtower? ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-bob-dylans-lyrics-are-actually-good/482724/85 "2009-01-26T19:39:16Z")
> [@Mariemarie](#): > > I just want to check in as someone who loves Dylan’s voice. But then I like Arethra Franklin’s voice too, so… I don’t see these two things as comparable? Aretha’s gotta set of pipes on her that are amazing and formidable. She can sing and emote and convert your religion in the space of a bar of music. I think I’m probably too old to get into Dylan, but I appreciate all who have shared their appreciation here. I said I’d go away and now I really am. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![achilles\_bogart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/58956e/32.png) [@achilles\_bogart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/achilles_bogart)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-bob-dylans-lyrics-are-actually-good/482724/86 "2009-01-26T19:52:05Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > Where did I say I wouldn’t like it? I said I would look more closely into him (at some point–this is not a matter of vital importance to me), because here I am finding things that appeal to me. Any artist who has lasted 40 years must have some talent–and I don’t mean to imply that I think Dylan doesn’t. > In my RL, I have come across people (more than 5, less than 10 or so-- I didn’t count–it’s not like I get into music discussions every day) who react in horror to the fact that I don’t “know” Dylan and than I don’t care for what little I do know. > > They usually shake their head and say stuff like “he’s the greatest! The guy’s a genius!” Noone (until this thread, when I can read the lyrics w/o the image or mystique) ever showed/told me why they liked him so much. Of course, I never asked, either… 🙂 What I am mildly poking fun at here is the mystique–hell, there was a movie made about Dylan’s “mystique”. I tend to be :dubious: about mystiques–I’m too old to be taken in by sunglasses, a cigarette and an attitude. I truly didn’t mean to rain on anyone’s parade, so I’ll bow out. I think Beetles fans are worse than any Dylan fans. The Beetles fans present a unified church where as The Church of Dylan has two branches, The electric Dylan denomination and the Acoustic Dylan Choir. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-bob-dylans-lyrics-are-actually-good/482724/87 "2009-01-26T20:31:52Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > I think I’m probably too old to get into Dylan, but I appreciate all who have shared their appreciation here. I said I’d go away and now I really am. 🙂 How old are you? My 70 year old Mom loves Dylan which is why I can say that I have been a Dylan fan since the womb. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-bob-dylans-lyrics-are-actually-good/482724/88 "2009-01-26T20:51:30Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > Good point. Big Pink-era Band is sort of “honorary Dylan.” I don’t even mind all the studio outtakes they stuck onto _The Basement Tapes_. False advertising, maybe, but the results are nonetheless wonderful. I kind of prefer the Dylan versions of most of those songs to the ones on Big Pink. Perhaps the love for them comes from the fact that it came out when Dylan was incommunicado. The one song I think the Band does better is **When I Paint My Masterpiece**. On the other hand, check out **Blind Willie McTell** on Bootleg 3 and on the Band’s **Jericho**. I realize that by this point they really weren’t the band anymore, but Dylan’s singing on that song is some of his best ever, and about 100 x better than the Band. There is real emotion in his version. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-bob-dylans-lyrics-are-actually-good/482724/89 "2009-01-26T21:05:01Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > I liked (and agreed with) your review. The only thing I’d add is that to me, he’s a sloppy wordsmith too. His lines don’t scan unless you unnaturally stress syllables > \*How many times must a man look up > Before he can see-hee the sky \* > (and it still doesn’t scan even with the awkwardly stretched “see-hee”) > > or his “I can’t come up with a word that actually DOES rhyme, so I’ll stick in an assonance and then mispronounce it” bit. > > trembles/rambles > bored/war (or world war) > raging/changin’ > > This is just sloppy. > > I also find many of his sentiments banal–to me, he generically protests stuff without actually…thinking…about it. Only example that pops to mind is “Blowing in the Wind” where the big message is “War is baaaaad”. Granted there are a LOT of songs with that same message, but compare “Blowin’” to, say Seegar’s “Where Have All The Flowers Gone”–Seegar (to me) gives some powerful images as there’s a logical progression from young girls-\>young men (or husbands)-\>soldiers-\>graveyards-\>flowers. “Blowin’” to me is a bunch of rhetorical, unconnected questions that just ramble around the theme. > > I find Pete Seegar, Woodie (and frankly Arlo) Guthrie and Paul Simon\* all possessing the qualities attributed to Dylan that (to me) Dylan doesn’t actually have. > > \*Why isn’t Simon normally thought of as a folk-singer? He is, by any reasonable measure. Thanks! I agree with you that many of his sentiments do come across as banal - though, as I said, he did come up with some good stuff as well. And Paul Simon was a good example to bring up of someone who’s a better lyricist than Dylan (IMO, of course). I don’t remember Paul doing anything as bathetic as “Joey” or “The Lonesome Death of Hattie Carroll”, at least. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-bob-dylans-lyrics-are-actually-good/482724/90 "2009-01-26T21:25:17Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > And Paul Simon was a good example to bring up of someone who’s a better lyricist than Dylan (IMO, of course). I don’t remember Paul doing anything as bathetic as “Joey” or “The Lonesome Death of Hattie Carroll”, at least. “Fifty Ways to Leave Your Lover”? ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-bob-dylans-lyrics-are-actually-good/482724/91 "2009-01-26T21:30:32Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > “Fifty Ways to Leave Your Lover”? Really? Bathetic? I always heard that as more an indifferent/sarcastic kiss-off (which is another type of song Dylan was fond of). But I admit I don’t care much for that one and haven’t listened to it for probably decades. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-bob-dylans-lyrics-are-actually-good/482724/92 "2009-01-26T21:45:28Z")
> [@achilles\_bogart](#): > > I like “See you later, Allen Ginsbeg” I get the feeling that Dylan was totally messed up on some good drugs. Interestingly enough, I saw a recent exhibition of many of Dylan’s notes. It was obvious that his lyrics, that seem to just flow so naturally, are in fact the product of a lot of hard work. There were many revisions, word changes, and multiple drafts of some of his most famous songs. But I don’t remember this specific one from the exhibition. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-bob-dylans-lyrics-are-actually-good/482724/93 "2009-01-26T21:57:10Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > But I don’t remember this specific one from the exhibition. Well it wouldn’t be. In contrast with the well-worked-out songs you saw at the exhibition, “See You Later Allen Ginsberg” was just an off-the-cuff improvisation. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-bob-dylans-lyrics-are-actually-good/482724/94 "2009-01-26T22:34:36Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > I think that one of the most bitter lines in any song is from Positively 4th Street: “I wish that for just one time you could stand inside my shoes. You’d know what a drag it is to see you.” This song is awesome. A slap in the face to which there is no comeback. ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2009, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-bob-dylans-lyrics-are-actually-good/482724/95 "2009-01-28T06:41:35Z")
Most Dylan fans will proudly claim that their man produced some of the very finest popular music ever made – and some of the very worst as well. Dylan’s oeuvre contains both dizzying genius and utter drivel, along with some stuff that isn’t much of anything. He embodies both extremes of quality, and a lot of the middle ground in between. I’m not a Paul Simon expert, but I never regarded him as being in Dylan’s league. Simon’s writing in the 60s comes off as the work of a precocious guy who never did anything but read books, and his lyrics are earnest, literary poses lacking in any real passion. (I do think he improved with age.) **Fenris** , I do intend to respond to your post (if anyone is still paying attention to this thread), but I need to carve out the time to do it properly. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2009, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-bob-dylans-lyrics-are-actually-good/482724/96 "2009-01-28T07:37:53Z")
There’s no accounting for taste, and when it comes to art, who’s to say? But “49th Street Bridge Song” and “Bookends” and “The Sounds of Silence” and “April Come She Will” and “Homeward Bound” lack passion? Not in my book. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2009, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-bob-dylans-lyrics-are-actually-good/482724/97 "2009-01-28T08:29:55Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > **Mr. Tambourine Man** There is no better poetry in the English language. Some as good, but MTM is wonderful. And the music is good too. I like a lot of Dylan’s lyrics a lot. His music is not so groundbreaking, but I was a wee tot when he went electric. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2009, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-bob-dylans-lyrics-are-actually-good/482724/98 "2009-01-28T08:31:01Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > There’s no accounting for taste, and when it comes to art, who’s to say? But “49th Street Bridge Song” and “Bookends” and “The Sounds of Silence” and “April Come She Will” and “Homeward Bound” lack passion? Not in my book. The whole _Bridge Over Troubled Water_ album is filled with great passionate music. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-bob-dylans-lyrics-are-actually-good/482724.md?page=4)