# Which of the following best describes the Confederate cause? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 1, 2018, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-following-best-describes-the-confederate-cause/825374 "2018-12-01T04:40:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-following-best-describes-the-confederate-cause/825374/1 "2018-12-01T04:40:19Z")
I’ll spoiler why I am posting this thread so that you can vote first. NOTE: I screwed up the poll. Options 1 and 2 are meant to be two sentences for the same option. If that’s the statement you agree with, please vote for #1. Which of the statements in the poll best match your feelings about the Confederate cause, and the people who joined it? [ol] [li]The Southern States were justified in their decision to leave the union. It was a matter of states’ rights, and the Federal government overstepped its authority.[/li][li]The South had some legitimate grievances with the North, but they were wrong to secede.[/li][li]It’s a complex issue and both sides were flawed. [/li][li]The Confederacy was open rebellion and full treason.[/li][li]Not only was the Confederacy open rebellion, the South seceded for one of the worst causes imaginable.[/li][/ol] [spoiler] In another thread while talking to **EscAlaMike** I said the following: > [@Would you \*prefer\* that there be no private gun ownership?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-prefer-that-there-be-no-private-gun-ownership/825309/40): > > By “fellow Americans” do you mean “traitorous terrorists who took up arms for one of the worst causes in history, then rebelled against the legitimately elected government of the United States”? Because if so, then your quote makes sense. Otherwise, it seems like you don’t really understand how civil wars work. He took issue with my description of the Confederacy. So, I thought I’d create this thread to see how people actually view the Confederacy.[/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-following-best-describes-the-confederate-cause/825374/2 "2018-12-01T04:48:00Z")
The south was a war fought by rich people trying to protect their property and lower class racists trying to protect an evil social system. The north should’ve maintained reconstruction for 50+ years. The south never reformed after the war like Germany did after fighting for an evil cause. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-following-best-describes-the-confederate-cause/825374/3 "2018-12-01T04:49:26Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > The south was a war fought by rich people trying to protect their property and lower class racists trying to protect an evil social system. > > The north should’ve maintained reconstruction for 50+ years. The south never reformed after the war like Germany did after fighting for an evil cause. I 100% agree and frankly find it ludicrous that anyone would give anything but the fifth answer. But the world is not as we wish it would be… ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-following-best-describes-the-confederate-cause/825374/4 "2018-12-01T04:57:20Z")
I took test like this before. The choices were “All, One, Some or None”. Somehow this poll fails even that. I vote “Splunge!” ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-following-best-describes-the-confederate-cause/825374/5 "2018-12-01T05:00:09Z")
NM ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-following-best-describes-the-confederate-cause/825374/6 "2018-12-01T05:05:56Z")
Fuck the Confederacy. Ignorant yahoos. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-following-best-describes-the-confederate-cause/825374/7 "2018-12-01T05:25:34Z")
They were traitors fighting for a completely evil cause, and one of the most purely one dimensional evil cultures that has existed in human history. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-following-best-describes-the-confederate-cause/825374/8 "2018-12-01T13:09:34Z")
Anyone can avoid revisionist claptrap as to what the war was really about by reading the speeches that were being made by those leading the cause, at that time. There’s little room for revisionism or misinterpretation if you go back to the original words. Regardless of how southerners _want_ to frame it now, you’d be hard pressed to find an oration that doesn’t hinge on God ordaining that whites should have dominion over blacks, because blah, blah, blah, God intended it that way. We are fortunate that they were so proud of their religious based racism that they published every speech in the local paper, where it would be saved for posterity! Leaving little room for revisionism, with the exception of those unfamiliar with what was _actually_ said at the time, out of historical ignorance. Sometimes wilful ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-following-best-describes-the-confederate-cause/825374/9 "2018-12-01T13:24:09Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Anyone can avoid revisionist claptrap as to what the war was really about by reading the speeches that were being made by those leading the cause, at that time. There’s little room for revisionism or misinterpretation if you go back to the original words. > > Regardless of how southerners _want_ to frame it now, you’d be hard pressed to find an oration that doesn’t hinge on God ordaining that whites should have dominion over blacks, because blah, blah, blah, God intended it that way. > > We are fortunate that they were so proud of their religious based racism that they published every speech in the local paper, where it would be saved for posterity! Leaving little room for revisionism, with the exception of those unfamiliar with what was _actually_ said at the time, out of historical ignorance. Sometimes wilful ignorance. Well said! ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-following-best-describes-the-confederate-cause/825374/10 "2018-12-01T13:30:00Z")
[Here](https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Declaration_of_the_Immediate_Causes_Which_Induce_and_Justify_the_Secession_of_South_Carolina_from_the_Federal_Union) is the actual SC secession declaration. Notes: 1. Slavery is abundantly clear as the _only_ cause. No if’s, and’s or but’s. 2. Regarding “states’ rights”. SC is _objecting_ to _other_ states invoking states rights to override federal law to interfere with fugitive slave recovery. (Section 8.) Option 5 is the only one that fits the facts. ---
**Author:** ![plankter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ba0ec/32.png) [@plankter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plankter)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-following-best-describes-the-confederate-cause/825374/11 "2018-12-01T13:33:04Z")
Well said indeed, **elbows**. The only difficulty I had with this poll’s options was choosing between 5 and 6, and I rejected the last option only because people could conceivably rally behind something even worse than slavery. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-following-best-describes-the-confederate-cause/825374/12 "2018-12-01T13:43:55Z")
None of the choices really fit my views: Slavery was a horrible thing, but the south had every right to succeed. I don’t believe in “once married, always married” laws making divorce illegal, why should I support laws requring states to remain in unions formed before almost everyone currently living was born? So when the South wanted to succeed, the North should have let it. (The same goes for any future states that want to leave the union.) ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-following-best-describes-the-confederate-cause/825374/13 "2018-12-01T13:51:19Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > None of the choices really fit my views: > > Slavery was a horrible thing, but the south had every right to succeed. I don’t believe in “once married, always married” laws making divorce illegal, why should I support laws requring states to remain in unions formed before almost everyone currently living was born? So when the South wanted to succeed, the North should have let it. (The same goes for any future states that want to leave the union.) Really? Well I support letting states \*\*succeed \*\*but I do not support letting them \*\*secede \*\*and leave the union. So if a regime next to your country had fully legalized slavery, how would you feel about your nation using armed force to end this practice? ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-following-best-describes-the-confederate-cause/825374/14 "2018-12-01T14:52:03Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > None of the choices really fit my views: > > Slavery was a horrible thing, but the south had every right to succeed. I don’t believe in “once married, always married” laws making divorce illegal, why should I support laws requring states to remain in unions formed before almost everyone currently living was born? So when the South wanted to succeed, the North should have let it. (The same goes for any future states that want to leave the union.) Interestingly, the Confederates considered explicitly allowing secession in their Constitution, but gave it up as a bad idea ([Dixie Betrayed: How the South Really Lost the Civil War - David J. Eicher - Google Books](https://books.google.com/books?id=BqFw5YWt6S8C&pg=PT114&lpg=PT114&dq=%22but+shall+be+entitled+to+its+pro+rata+share+of+property+and+be+liable+for+its+pro+rata+share+of+public+debt+to+be+determined+by+negotiation.%22&source=bl&ots=njMwWSieX3&sig=kg8oxfWC1LaJJaWoh9CUzJ76eMg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjo74fL8P7eAhUI1oMKHQfeBg8Q6AEwAHoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=%22but%20shall%20be%20entitled%20to%20its%20pro%20rata%20share%20of%20property%20and%20be%20liable%20for%20its%20pro%20rata%20share%20of%20public%20debt%20to%20be%20determined%20by%20negotiation.%22&f=false)) ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-following-best-describes-the-confederate-cause/825374/15 "2018-12-01T16:08:49Z")
> [@plankter](#): > > Well said indeed, **elbows**. > . . .I rejected the last option only because people could conceivably rally behind something even worse than slavery. Read it again; watch for the phrase “. . .one of the. . .” Option 6 is the obvious answer. But if you had asked me what I was taught in school, I’d have had to say 2 or 3. My teachers were not racist @$$holes, far from it. In fact, many of them were African-American. They fell into the same trap our current press corps is stuck in; it is very difficult to find the line between presenting all the information on the one hand, and giving all sides equal weight on the other. I would argue that it is full-on impossible to lead human memories to give full weight to only one argument, having presented both. So they are stuck. If they present all sides, human minds will remember each as having validity and even equal weight. If they fail to present all sides, then any future revelation will be received as “hidden truths” inspiring all the devotion of a conspiracy cult. Only the arts can then provide the necessary shock needed to place history in its proper perspective. My generation had “Roots” and LeVar Burton’s stunning performance. The current generation has “12 Years a Slave” which I haven’t been able to force myself to watch, but which I understand is equally horrific with true-to-life performances. We cannot “get it” without what the arts bring to bear. ---
**Author:** ![JB99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JB99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JB99)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-following-best-describes-the-confederate-cause/825374/16 "2018-12-01T16:33:42Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > The south was a war fought by rich people trying to protect their property and lower class racists trying to protect an evil social system. Also, their ‘property’ was people. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-following-best-describes-the-confederate-cause/825374/17 "2018-12-01T16:39:31Z")
> [@plankter](#): > > Well said indeed, **elbows**. The only difficulty I had with this poll’s options was choosing between 5 and 6, and I rejected the last option only because people could conceivably rally behind something even worse than slavery. I agree. The Nazis were worse than the Confederates; genocide is a worse cause than slavery. But I’ll accept slavery as one of the worst causes. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-following-best-describes-the-confederate-cause/825374/18 "2018-12-01T16:59:20Z")
So the response is pretty overwhelming so far. We almost all agree that the Confederates were traitors and rebels, and most of us also agree that the cause that the South was fighting for was heinous. But a few people went the other way in the poll. I’d be very curious to hear their argument… If you’re voting for an option other than 5 or 6, I’d love to know why. If you’re voting for 5, I’d love to know why too, actually. And of course this raises the question, so what should have been done about it? But that might deserve its own, GD thread. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-following-best-describes-the-confederate-cause/825374/19 "2018-12-01T17:31:10Z")
If you didn’t vote 1/2, I hope you’ll all acknowledge that you’re all still British, and that the land you occupy belongs to the native Americans. The north didn’t fight primarily for the sake of slaves, it fought for territory. Just as recent wars in Iraq or Afghanistan weren’t fought for the sake of the people there who were victims of the regime. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-following-best-describes-the-confederate-cause/825374/20 "2018-12-01T17:35:59Z")
Sherman let the South off lightly. And **Steophan** is…well,what he always is. Wrong, for one. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-following-best-describes-the-confederate-cause/825374.md?page=2)