# Which of the following non-human species would you judge most likely to be sapient?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-following-non-human-species-would-you-judge-most-likely-to-be-sapient/514866
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [October 23, 2009, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-following-non-human-species-would-you-judge-most-likely-to-be-sapient/514866 "2009-10-23T15:04:52Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)
#### Post date: [October 23, 2009, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-following-non-human-species-would-you-judge-most-likely-to-be-sapient/514866/1 "2009-10-23T15:04:52Z")
This will be a public poll with no set ending date. You may choose multiple responses. There is a “None of the above” option, as well as a “You left out an obvious possibility, dimwit!” option. I would define _sapient_ if I weren’t [del]so freaking lazy [/del] desirous of discussing that in the thread.
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### Author:  [@SMullen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SMullen)
#### Post date: [October 23, 2009, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-following-non-human-species-would-you-judge-most-likely-to-be-sapient/514866/2 "2009-10-23T15:18:00Z")
What about “All of the above”? That’s the answer I would give.
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### Author:  [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)
#### Post date: [October 23, 2009, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-following-non-human-species-would-you-judge-most-likely-to-be-sapient/514866/3 "2009-10-23T15:27:34Z")
> [@SMullen](#):
>
> What about “All of the above”? That’s the answer I would give.
You don’t seem to have voted as I write this, so I recommend that you simply select each option (except for the last two) in that case. Or even all the options except for the last one, if you wish to add an animal I left out, like the domestic pig.
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### Author:  [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)
#### Post date: [October 23, 2009, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-following-non-human-species-would-you-judge-most-likely-to-be-sapient/514866/4 "2009-10-23T15:29:37Z")
Most likely to be sapient _now_, or most likely to evolve sapience at some point?
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### Author:  [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)
#### Post date: [October 23, 2009, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-following-non-human-species-would-you-judge-most-likely-to-be-sapient/514866/5 "2009-10-23T15:33:51Z")
> [@Skammer](#):
>
> Most likely to be sapient _now_, or most likely to evolve sapience at some point?
I was going to say something cruel about verb tenses, but then I re-read my OP and decided it was ambiguous on that point.
Anyway, I mean sapient _now_–in no small part because I seriously doubt the first two options are going to evolve into anything but a fond memory.
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### Author:  [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)
#### Post date: [October 23, 2009, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-following-non-human-species-would-you-judge-most-likely-to-be-sapient/514866/6 "2009-10-23T15:42:23Z")
I said none of the above, but of that list, I’d say that the bottlenose dolphin probably comes closest, and after it, the Orca. Humpback whales are morons.
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### Author:  [@stretch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stretch)
#### Post date: [October 23, 2009, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-following-non-human-species-would-you-judge-most-likely-to-be-sapient/514866/7 "2009-10-23T15:46:01Z")
First, I had to look up sapient. Thank goodness I did or the answers may have been quite different.
Then I discovered I am an ageist; all my choices are species that live ‘long enough’\* to garner some experience and wisdom and thus have some kind of ‘cultural knowledge’\* that could be passed along. I just don’t think dogs, cats and wolves have enough time on earth to develop that.
But this is really the first time I’ve thought about this topic at all. Good thread; I’m interested in hearing others opinions.
\*arbitrarily defined by me
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### Author:  [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)
#### Post date: [October 23, 2009, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-following-non-human-species-would-you-judge-most-likely-to-be-sapient/514866/8 "2009-10-23T15:59:42Z")
I have seen dogs and cats behave. Sure there are a few bright ones but tons and tons of both of them that are dumb as rocks. I had a dog that was dumb as a rock. best dog ever, but…
I took dolphins.
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### Author:  [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)
#### Post date: [October 23, 2009, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-following-non-human-species-would-you-judge-most-likely-to-be-sapient/514866/9 "2009-10-23T16:05:58Z")
I think I’ll go with Zhaozhou and answer [“mu”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu_%28negative%29) (as in none of the above, tho that’s not my actual position). Heck, I’m not convinced that all of my fellow humans are sapient. But in my personal dealings with some of the animals listed (mainly pets of course), I seriously have to wonder.
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### Author:  [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)
#### Post date: [October 23, 2009, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-following-non-human-species-would-you-judge-most-likely-to-be-sapient/514866/10 "2009-10-23T16:28:39Z")
Whatever happend to the Great Apes?
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### Author:  [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)
#### Post date: [October 23, 2009, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-following-non-human-species-would-you-judge-most-likely-to-be-sapient/514866/11 "2009-10-23T16:33:51Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#):
>
> Whatever happend to the Great Apes?
I KNEW I forgot something! How I forgot them I don’t know. I must have been distracted by work.
Which ones do you mean, though? Gorillas ≠ orangutans ≠ chimpanzees ≠ bonobos.
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### Author:  [@Telcontar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telcontar)
#### Post date: [October 23, 2009, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-following-non-human-species-would-you-judge-most-likely-to-be-sapient/514866/12 "2009-10-23T16:46:23Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#):
>
> Whatever happend to the Great Apes?
Concur. They are certainly most likely. What’s the case for the elephants? Haven’t heard that one.
Oh, and I mean any of them. Notably chimps, but also gorillas. Haven’t seen as many studies involving bonobos or orangutans, but I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt.
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### Author:  [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)
#### Post date: [October 23, 2009, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-following-non-human-species-would-you-judge-most-likely-to-be-sapient/514866/13 "2009-10-23T16:51:16Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#):
>
> I KNEW I forgot something! How I forgot them I don’t know. I must have been distracted by work.
>
> Which ones do you mean, though? Gorillas ≠ orangutans ≠ chimpanzees ≠ bonobos.
Hell, any of them. There are no primates in your list, and I think they’d be excellent candidates.
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### Author:  [@gravitycrash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gravitycrash)
#### Post date: [October 23, 2009, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-following-non-human-species-would-you-judge-most-likely-to-be-sapient/514866/14 "2009-10-23T16:53:04Z")
I have to go with cats. Every time my cat stares at me, I’m pretty sure that it’s thinking “the only reason I tolerate you is because you feed me and you’re comfortable to lay on, also if us cats had opposable thumbs we would be kicking your ass”.
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### Author:  [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)
#### Post date: [October 23, 2009, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-following-non-human-species-would-you-judge-most-likely-to-be-sapient/514866/15 "2009-10-23T16:54:41Z")
Octopus and chimp
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### Author:  [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)
#### Post date: [October 23, 2009, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-following-non-human-species-would-you-judge-most-likely-to-be-sapient/514866/16 "2009-10-23T16:59:40Z")
> [@Telcontar](#):
>
> Concur. They are certainly most likely. What’s the case for the elephants? Haven’t heard that one..
I meant to include the apes. You have my word as a Lawful Evil type. I was handicapped by lack of caffeine and will be taking my vengeance on Starbucks.
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### Author:  [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)
#### Post date: [October 23, 2009, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-following-non-human-species-would-you-judge-most-likely-to-be-sapient/514866/17 "2009-10-23T17:08:44Z")
> [@Telcontar](#):
>
> What’s the case for the elephants? Haven’t heard that one.
Here are a few cites:
[Elephant Intelligence: Why Elephants Might Be as Smart as Humans](http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/805527/elephant_intelligence_why_elephants.html?cat=47)
[The Nature Institute: Elephantine Intelligence](http://www.natureinstitute.org/pub/ic/ic5/elephant.htm)
[Elephants’ jumbo mirror ability](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6100430.stm)
[COMMENTARY: Do Elephants Cry?](http://www.emagazine.com/view/?3702)
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### Author:  [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)
#### Post date: [October 23, 2009, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-following-non-human-species-would-you-judge-most-likely-to-be-sapient/514866/18 "2009-10-23T17:18:16Z")
> [@appleciders](#):
>
> Hell, any of them. There are no primates in your list, and I think they’d be excellent candidates.
Surely you don’t mean _all_ primates. I mean, you’ve got your lemurs, lorisids, galagos, tarsiers, marmorsets, and eleventy-nine others. _Primate_ includes more than apes, humans, and Curious George.
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### Author:  [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)
#### Post date: [October 23, 2009, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-following-non-human-species-would-you-judge-most-likely-to-be-sapient/514866/19 "2009-10-23T17:55:12Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#):
>
> Surely you don’t mean _all_ primates. I mean, you’ve got your lemurs, lorisids, galagos, tarsiers, marmorsets, and eleventy-nine others. _Primate_ includes more than apes, humans, and Curious George.
I’d go for at least all of the great apes, since they success in the [Mirror Test](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_test), as - apparently - do some dolphins, elephants, orcas and magpies(!)
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### Author:  [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)
#### Post date: [October 23, 2009, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-following-non-human-species-would-you-judge-most-likely-to-be-sapient/514866/20 "2009-10-23T17:57:55Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#):
>
> You don’t seem to have voted as I write this, so I recommend that you simply select each option (except for the last two) in that case. Or even all the options except for the last one, if you wish to add an animal I left out, like the domestic pig.
Thanks for jogging my memory ------ I vote for domestic pigs based upon the Carson Principle demonstrating the superior intellect of pigs over other creatures such as horses.
(Johnny Carson would argue that you never saw a pig letting some 300 pound fat guy ride it)
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