# Which of the world’s largest economies are handling the financial crisis the best? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 9, 2009, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-world-s-largest-economies-are-handling-the-financial-crisis-the-best/485072 "2009-02-09T15:31:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-world-s-largest-economies-are-handling-the-financial-crisis-the-best/485072/1 "2009-02-09T15:31:18Z")
According to [Wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)), the world’s largest economies in 2007 were: 1. United States - 13,807,550 2. Japan - 4,381,576 3. Germany - 3,320,913 4. China (PRC) - 3,280,224h 5. United Kingdom - 2,804,437 6. France - 2,593,779 7. Italy - 2,104,666 8. Spain - 1,439,983 9. Canada - 1,436,086 10. Brazil - 1,313,590 11. Russia - 1,289,535 It’s a little old I think (China having overtaken Germany), but it doesn’t matter so much. Which of these nations are weathering the financial crisis the best? Which will come out relatively strengthened, and which will be sent down the list as a result of the crisis? My immediate guess would be Canada and Brazil are doing the best. Japan, Italy and Spain and perhaps UK the worst. ---
**Author:** ![scule](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@scule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scule)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-world-s-largest-economies-are-handling-the-financial-crisis-the-best/485072/2 "2009-02-09T16:31:24Z")
Well, Canada lost 129,000 jobs last month, so I don’t know that we’re doing the best, but it’s still early to know for sure. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-world-s-largest-economies-are-handling-the-financial-crisis-the-best/485072/3 "2009-02-09T16:35:15Z")
> [@scule](#): > > Well, Canada lost 129,000 jobs last month, so I don’t know that we’re doing the best, but it’s still early to know for sure. Logically those who will be more exposed will be those who fell hardest for the ‘unregulated’ business is best scam. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-world-s-largest-economies-are-handling-the-financial-crisis-the-best/485072/4 "2009-02-09T16:51:38Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > Logically those who will be more exposed will be those who fell hardest for the ‘unregulated’ business is best scam. That would be the UK, then, given that our economy is pretty much built on that and nothing else. Oh, and the value of our houses. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-world-s-largest-economies-are-handling-the-financial-crisis-the-best/485072/5 "2009-02-09T16:57:08Z")
> [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > That would be the UK, then, given that our economy is pretty much built on that and nothing else. Oh, and the value of our houses. :rolleyes: Yep. The IMF already has us down as being among the worst hit. The Nordic socio-dem types are expected to do better. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-world-s-largest-economies-are-handling-the-financial-crisis-the-best/485072/6 "2009-02-09T17:53:48Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > Yep. The IMF already has us down as being among the worst hit. The Nordic socio-dem types are expected to do better. Scandinavia together is about number 8 or 9 on the list of the largest economies. If we ignore Iceland, which is totally fucked, I think they are doing relatively fine. All have small national debts, and budget surpluses (Norway massive) which should make stimulus packages possible and a large public sector will take some of the sting out of the downturn. Although there are problems. Norway must feel the low oil prices and Denmark is heavily dependent on foreign trade and has one of Europe’s worst real estate bubbles. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-world-s-largest-economies-are-handling-the-financial-crisis-the-best/485072/7 "2009-02-09T18:06:22Z")
I think it’s far too early to say how things are going. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-world-s-largest-economies-are-handling-the-financial-crisis-the-best/485072/8 "2009-02-09T18:59:26Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I think it’s far too early to say how things are going. You’ll never make a career in economics punditry with _that_ attitude. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-world-s-largest-economies-are-handling-the-financial-crisis-the-best/485072/9 "2009-02-09T19:17:06Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > Logically those who will be more exposed will be those who fell hardest for the ‘unregulated’ business is best scam. Canada is relatively unexposed to the credit problems, but we’re extremely dependent on the Americans wanting to buy stuff from us. They don’t seem to want to at the moment, which is pretty much the entirety of our economic problem. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-world-s-largest-economies-are-handling-the-financial-crisis-the-best/485072/10 "2009-02-09T23:46:47Z")
China, after many years of double digit growth now expects about 8% this year. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-world-s-largest-economies-are-handling-the-financial-crisis-the-best/485072/11 "2009-02-10T07:04:03Z")
Canada is actually in quite good shape. We’ve been paying down our debt for years, and although our left-wing parties threatened to bring down the government unless we had our own ‘stimulus’, it’s still relatively small - $35 billion dollars. Alberta is weakening, but still posting positive growth and is still the strongest economy in North America, and perhaps even in the world. Our biggest problem is that the U.S. is our largest trading partner and a gigantic influence on our economy. So we go wherever the U.S. goes, but we’re positioned to ride it out a little better. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-world-s-largest-economies-are-handling-the-financial-crisis-the-best/485072/12 "2009-02-10T07:47:24Z")
The US is better economically developed than the others in your list, and is pumping vast amounts of dollars into the economy. [Bloomberg Politics - Bloomberg](http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=washingtonstory&sid=aGq2B3XeGKok) Almost $10 trillion has been added to the economy so far. According to Bloomberg this is enough to pay off 90 percent of all mortgages. So I’m going for the US being the best off in this worldwide crisis. Iceland is ruined. The UK is going to be very badly off. If the US keeps pumping money into the economy, then the whole world will be better off than otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-world-s-largest-economies-are-handling-the-financial-crisis-the-best/485072/13 "2009-02-10T08:01:23Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > So I’m going for the US being the best off in this worldwide crisis. China, after many years of double digit growth now expects about 8% this year. I don’t think the USA will come even close to that. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-world-s-largest-economies-are-handling-the-financial-crisis-the-best/485072/14 "2009-02-10T08:47:29Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > The UK is going to be very badly off. Can you elaborate on this? There’ll be a General Election next year, and there will be major jamborees in 2012 (Olympics, QE2’s Diamond Jubilee, 30th anniversary of Falklands, 200th anniversary of War of 1812). ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-world-s-largest-economies-are-handling-the-financial-crisis-the-best/485072/15 "2009-02-10T09:15:55Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Can you elaborate on this? There’ll be a General Election next year, and there will be major jamborees in 2012 (Olympics, QE2’s Diamond Jubilee, 30th anniversary of Falklands, 200th anniversary of War of 1812). The [IMF](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/imf-predicts-uk-will-be-hardest-hit-1518588.html) has already listed us as likely to be among the worst hit because of our economic dependence on finance rather than making stuff. Also our deregulated approach to the banking sector left it more exposed. > [@](#): > > The International Monetary Fund’s (IMF) grim outlook showed the economy shrinking by 2.8 per cent this year, more than twice as bad as it previously thought and well above the 2 per cent average for advanced countries. > > It came as another independent body warned £20 billion of tax rises or spending cuts would be needed to get the national finances back on track. > > The Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) also predicted that, even then, swollen levels of public sector debt would not return to pre-crisis levels for more than 20 years. Our housing market was also dreadfully over-inflated. And as you say - we are still committed to the ridiculous Olympic bid and being lied to on a daily basis as to the true cost. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-world-s-largest-economies-are-handling-the-financial-crisis-the-best/485072/16 "2009-02-10T11:05:12Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > China, after many years of double digit growth now expects about 8% this year. GNP and growth projections for all countries are subject to manipulation and wishful thinking, but probably nowhere so much as China. Official growth is projected to 8% - other analysts say China already has negative growth. Also China needs 8%+ growth just to provide jobs for those millions entering the work force every year. > [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > The US is better economically developed than the others in your list, and is pumping vast amounts of dollars into the economy. [http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=washingtonstory&sid=aGq2B3XeGKok](http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=washingtonstory&sid=aGq2B3XeGKok) Almost $10 trillion has been added to the economy so far. According to Bloomberg this is enough to pay off 90 percent of all mortgages. > > So I’m going for the US being the best off in this worldwide crisis. Iceland is ruined. The UK is going to be very badly off. If the US keeps pumping money into the economy, then the whole world will be better off than otherwise. If all you need is pump vast amount of dollars into the economy, why don’t you pump in $20 trillion – and pay off all mortgages and buy everyone a Cadillac? Or $100 trillion? What comes after trillion? Those additional $10 trillions on top of your already ballooning deficits and underfinanced state obligations will have to be paid back some day. Do you think your children will relish the thought of slavering to pay off their parent’s debt? Or rather. It’s not like hyper-inflation hasn’t been seen elsewhere before. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-world-s-largest-economies-are-handling-the-financial-crisis-the-best/485072/17 "2009-02-10T16:03:16Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > GNP and growth projections for all countries are subject to manipulation and wishful thinking, but probably nowhere so much as China. Official growth is projected to 8% - other analysts say China already has negative growth. Also China needs 8%+ growth just to provide jobs for those millions entering the work force every year. Look, let us not just make up shit from whole cloth or this is pointless. [World Bank cuts 2009 China growth forecast to 7.5%](http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-11/25/content_10409908.htm) [The Asian Development Bank (ADB) notched down its forecast for China’s annual economic growth next year to 8.2](http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/bizchina/2008-12/12/content_7297085.htm) > [@](#): > > [http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1876264,00.html](http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1876264,00.html) > > At a time of nearly universal dismay over the business outlook, there are few experts anywhere who can out-gloom Jim Walker, an economist at an independent Hong Kong research firm called Asianomics. In his thick Scottish accent, Walker predicts the worst global recession since the Great Depression. GDP in the U.S., he says, could contract as much as 5% in 2009, and Europe by 2%. He is no more bullish about the economies in his area of specialty: Asia, a region where most of his colleagues foresee more buoyancy. China won’t see GDP rise more than 4% in 2009, he says, and the country’s economy may not grow at all. “There is going to be precious little growth anywhere,” Walker says. I cannot think of any sane person who would predict China will do worse than the USA in 2009. If you believe otherwise you better have some very good cites ready. ---
**Author:** ![Kid\_A\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Kid\_A\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kid_A_1)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-world-s-largest-economies-are-handling-the-financial-crisis-the-best/485072/18 "2009-02-10T16:19:09Z")
Fareed Zakaria, in this week’s Newsweek, seems pretty gung-ho about Canada. [Link](http://www.newsweek.com/id/183670) ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-world-s-largest-economies-are-handling-the-financial-crisis-the-best/485072/19 "2009-02-10T16:31:20Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > Look, let us not just make up shit from whole cloth or this is pointless. So where is the making stuff up part? I’m not saying China is doing worse than the USA. Just that it is widely accepted that official statistics coming out of China should be taken with a big helping of salt. Because of manipulation and because it’s simply not that easy to measure the overall economic growth of 1.3 billion people. Maybe it’s growing 8%, maybe it’s in recession. Some commentators I have read say that things like fall in the Chinese oil consumption and electricity usage point to the economy being in recession. Official Chinese deny such allegations: [China stats chief defends GDP figures as reliable](http://malaysia.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20090206/tbs-china-economy-statistics-21231dd_1.html) Why do you think Chinese officials would have to deny that they are massaging their numbers if there was not a number of people out there that thought so? btw. There are also many who thinks the USA is manipulating their numbers. For example, a good part of the US GNP derives from some number given to the supposed rental value of living in ones own house. Absolutely no actual extra value is produced here. Just living in your own house props up the GNP numbers. I say bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-world-s-largest-economies-are-handling-the-financial-crisis-the-best/485072/20 "2009-02-10T16:43:13Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Do you think your children will relish the thought of slavering to pay off their parent’s debt? I think you mean slaving, not slavering. Though it’s a funny image. 🙂 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-the-world-s-largest-economies-are-handling-the-financial-crisis-the-best/485072.md?page=2)