So even with videotape evidence that they were a willing and enthusiastic participant in the sex act, it is still rape if days later they decide they were taken advantage of?
You don’t find that terrifying? How could anyone safely have casual sex in such a world? Any nutball could put you in prison because their psychic pet rabbitt telepathically told them they were really raped.
:eek:Vengeful EXs will be handed nukes basically.
Again, I’m not talking legally. I’m talking morally and ethically.
If someone is crazy enough to be listening to their pet rabbit, they may not be sane enough to be able to consent to sex.
And if you’re concerned that your casual sex partners might realize that they didn’t actually consent to your advances…perhaps you should take a good look at your mating habits, and whether you’re using coercion or trickery to get people to “consent” to things they aren’t actually comfortable with.
If a man walks up to a woman and says “nice boots,wanna fuck?” and she says “sure why not” I’m pretty sure no psych tests are required of either party.
And as foolish as either may be, it doesn’t make them a rapist.
And? So the two of them take the risk that neither is more than usually crazy, and they knock (nice) boots.
Maybe she turns up to be the type to take psychic advice from her rabbit. Maybe his idea of post-coital “second round” is a knife into her heart.
Hopefully neither is so, and they have their fun and go their separate ways.
I believe there are situation where 1 could be rape. (Feel free to switch gender roles as you see fit).
One day a guy and a girl are fooling around and things go farther than normal and it ends in sex. The girl admits that she didn’t tell him to stop or push him away but says she got scared, kind of froze up and couldn’t move. **Vinyl Turnip ** would have at least been gentleman enough to ask if things were OK, but doesn’t see this as rape; I would have to agree.
However, this girl had made it quite clear to her boyfriend (and basically everyone) that she wasn’t ready to have sex. Part of the reason was that she had been sexually abused in the past and was still in counseling. The boyfriend knew this.
Is it rape now? She didn’t give or deny consent at the time, but had given her opinion earlier.
Shortly after the sex/rape the girl texts him “Why did you do that?” and he replies with “You know you wanted it you slut.” She sends “You know I wasn’t ready for sex” and he returns “I know you like playing innocent.”
The girl maintains she didn’t want to have sex and the guy jokes about it. How about now?
Not rape. She didn’t object. As far as he knew she was consenting. Consent doesn’t require a sworn affadavit. All doubt can be removed by saying something. People who freeze up in impending rape situations shouldn’t start ‘fooling around’.
As to the issue of being intoxicated, if you’re intoxicated enough that you can’t consent, you’re also intoxicated enough that you can’t recall your actions clearly. Don’t get intoxicated if this could be a problem.
I don’t want to sound too harsh, but a lot of this has to do with the ability prove rape, not just a matter of consent. If you appear to have consented, you won’t get far trying to prove you didn’t. The minor nuances of what comprises consent in some situations isn’t as important as keeping yourself out of situations where it would matter. Don’t expect rapists to be stopped by parsing the particulars of what constitutes consent.
yeah, I’ve heard about that. Like all these issues, it seems to only go in one gender direction though. The guy who lies about being a doctor is a rapist but the woman who wears makeup, a slimming girdle and push up bra is not. Stuff like that makes real rape (which causes permanent emotional scars) seem less serious, which is one of the worst effects of labeling everything rape.
But he knew she didn’t want to have sex, and why. She had every reason to trust him, and he took advantage of that. Provable in a court of law or not, I don’t think that there is any question of whether the sex was consensual on her part.
The onus is on the rapist not to rape, not on the victim to not be a victim.
Did he really know? I don’t like the circumstances, but assuming he’s a teenaged idiot, he may not really know. If she was my daughter I might castrate the kid anyway, but I think there should be a clearer standard than that. As for the onus, well it just doesn’t do much to stop rapists.
Dude, this is disgusting and textbook blaming the victim. It’s already been established that the question goes beyond legality and what will hold up in a court of law.
Seriously, read what you wrote again. Really? Someone who’s been an abuse victim and might freeze up should avoid sexual situations altogether because, oh gee, some dude they’re with might actually need to exercise some fucking basic human empathy rather than get his?
This just cannot be repeated enough.
I voted for “halfway-thru” only. But then, you have to decide what “halfway thru” means.
I feel I was acquaintance raped by a man I had recently met when I was quite young. A friend who was there when we met says different, but she wasn’t there when the action actually occured. I never consented, but hey, he didn’t ask. I struggled and said “no, no, no” and tried to push him away. He was stronger than me. I finally gave up and thought to myself “let’s just get this over with.”
If someone tried that again with me now, with all the knowledge, experience and self-love I gained since that time, he would not walk away from it. He might crawl, but he would not walk.
The friend who was there when I met the guy was thrilled that she had managed to hold on to her virginity longer than I did. How messed up is that?
A lot of bad things can happen when we are young and inexperienced with social interaction, sex, and self-respect.
Is there some particular reason you’re trying to ruin my life? Because a world where I can’t get laid after three drinks is not a world I want to live in.
Bullshit. Terrifyingly insane bullshit. *Feelings *do not shape reality, and if they did, then I suppose we’d have to also consider the feelings of the person who strongly feels that no, he did *not *rape her.
I’m not happy about the way things are, but this is the reality. What you personally consider rape is irrelevant, only what the law says will matter in the end. And believing that the world is full decent people will not help anyone avoid rape.
I said “yes” to all three.
Based on some responses in this thread, I am ecstatic that the people of the SDMB don’t make the laws.
Superbly put. Thank you.
Often I enjoy this board. There are some very smart people here, and a lot of enlightened opinions.
But the idea that it’s rape to have sex with a drunk person who clearly wants said sex is just ridiculous.
No
You have raped me with your comments. Please turn yourself in to the nearest police station.
You left out “All of the above.”
Honestly, I think feelings do shape reality to a degree. At least, they shape everyone’s own construction of reality, and I think that they should be taken into account, especially in cases where it is not clear cut.
If sex occurs without verbalised consent, or perhaps even without overt behavioural consent (being actions beyond passive acceptance of the situation), and one of the people later regrets it or feels taken advantage of, this should be acknowledged. That the other person had no way of knowing this lack of consent should also be taken into account.
It seems to me that our language is lacking a term for this situation. I perhaps wouldn’t call it rape if no intimidation or reason for lack of consent outside of the immediate context occurred (so Gedd’s situation is not included here, maybe), but something bad still happened and the affected party should get help without a blameless party being hurt.
In foggy situations, I think a black and white “is it rape or not” approach might not be the best. It doesn’t get us to the best way to handle the situations, in my opinion. It’s not a solution orientated approach - it feels like we’re just trying to figure out who’s to blame.