# Which of these substances does society most harm? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 13, 2012, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-substances-does-society-most-harm/615603 "2012-03-13T00:14:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-substances-does-society-most-harm/615603/21 "2012-03-13T08:00:17Z")
> [@don\_t\_ask](#): > > From memory most health researchers come up with figures that make tobacco the largest evil known to mankind. They do this by including in their calculations the dollar value of all the work not performed by dead smokers Whether the dead smokers died from a cancer linked to tobacco or from having a house fall on them, I’m guessing. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-substances-does-society-most-harm/615603/22 "2012-03-13T09:04:23Z")
> [@SeaDragonTattoo](#): > > I went with alcohol due to my personal encounters with it. I’ve seen far more (personally) death and destruction from alcohol than I have from tobacco. Two dead cousins, a dead uncle, a dead grandfather, two dead friends, and four car accidents (make that six if you include the fatal ones) off the top of my head. One lung cancer. On the other hand, most of my immediate family smoked, and is now dead; mostly of cancer. Only the nonsmokers are still alive. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-substances-does-society-most-harm/615603/23 "2012-03-13T16:30:50Z")
I think, of the three, that tobacco is more likely to harm the person smoking it, but alcohol is more likely to kill an innocent bystander, so I went with alcohol. Plus, I know a lot more people that turn into twits when they drink than when they smoke. > [@thelabdude](#): > > Give the current tobacco users another 10 years to die off and death rates from it should decline. Haven’t looked at the stats for teenage smokers lately, have you? Around here, if you walk past a group of high school kids on the street, odds are probably 50/50 that one or more of them will be smoking. ---
**Author:** ![cher3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cher3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cher3)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-substances-does-society-most-harm/615603/24 "2012-03-13T16:48:35Z")
I think a lot of the health costs for alcohol are hidden. Heart disease, ulcers, high blood pressure–it’s not all liver-related. Most alcoholics don’t dies of cirrhosis. Something else gets them first. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-substances-does-society-most-harm/615603/25 "2012-03-13T17:28:43Z")
I’d like to hear from the six people who voted for marijuana. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-substances-does-society-most-harm/615603/26 "2012-03-13T18:27:34Z")
Could have to do with the Mexican “[drug wars](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=126978142)”? I know we had/have a member from Mexico who is adamant about problems American drug use causes in Mexico. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-substances-does-society-most-harm/615603/27 "2012-03-13T19:43:32Z")
[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:25, topic:615603”] I’d like to hear from the six people who voted for marijuana. [/QUOTE] They are probably thinking of the social harm related to its prohibition. (Either that, or the Dave Matthews Band.) ---
**Author:** ![kushiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbce88/32.png) [@kushiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kushiel)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-substances-does-society-most-harm/615603/28 "2012-03-13T22:00:09Z")
Ooooh, good place to ask this! Being a boring law-abiding citizen, I’ve never partaken of the devil weed ;), so all I know is what I hear from others. If weed was legalized and consumed as often as alcohol, would it be more harmful than it is regarded now? Does it impair you enough that you can’t drive or make clear decisions? Would it be a substance that people would choose over their families (like many alcoholics do)? I just wonder if its good reputation is because it just isn’t used as much as other substances and occupies a different demographic currently. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-substances-does-society-most-harm/615603/29 "2012-03-13T23:42:55Z")
> [@kushiel](#): > > Ooooh, good place to ask this! > > Being a boring law-abiding citizen, I’ve never partaken of the devil weed ;), so all I know is what I hear from others. If weed was legalized and consumed as often as alcohol, would it be more harmful than it is regarded now? Does it impair you enough that you can’t drive or make clear decisions? Would it be a substance that people would choose over their families (like many alcoholics do)? I just wonder if its good reputation is because it just isn’t used as much as other substances and occupies a different demographic currently. Yes, marijuana is capable of being abused similarly to alcohol. The slacker-stoner don’t-care stereotype is mostly true of people who smoke way too much weed. The difference is that alcohol is probably much more chemically addictive than pot. Pot does impair your ability to make good decisions, or operate machinery. The difference here is that alcohol often motivates people to do stupid stuff, while pot doesn’t motivate you to do much of anything at all. Drunkenness can “sneak up on you” so that your judgment suffers at exactly the same rate inverse to your sobriety, meaning that as you get stupider, you’re less able to realize that you’re being stupid. This can feed a pretty impressive alcoholic cycle, making you cataclysmically impaired but without any restraint or realization of consequences. On marijuana, you absolutely know just how high you are. An extremely high person is less likely to make the decision to drive than an extremely drunk person is. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-substances-does-society-most-harm/615603/30 "2012-03-14T01:07:33Z")
> [@kushiel](#): > > Ooooh, good place to ask this! > > Being a boring law-abiding citizen, I’ve never partaken of the devil weed ;), so all I know is what I hear from others. If weed was legalized and consumed as often as alcohol, would it be more harmful than it is regarded now? Does it impair you enough that you can’t drive or make clear decisions? Would it be a substance that people would choose over their families (like many alcoholics do)? I just wonder if its good reputation is because it just isn’t used as much as other substances and occupies a different demographic currently. It also doesn’t make beating your wife and kids seem like a good way to solve problems, so it has that going for it. I voted for alcohol, naturally. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-substances-does-society-most-harm/615603/31 "2012-03-14T02:42:27Z")
Tobacco may be worse for sheer death rates, but alcoholism (and c’mon, that’s what we’re talking about here, not just alcohol use) ruins families, and scars children for life. The most smoking will do is make hardship for the family members having to take care of a dying smoker. Living with an alcoholic is a horror show that destroys any trust in people at all for the children growing up in such a family. Alcoholism may hurt society in many ways, but the main damage comes from the destruction of any sense of security between parent and child. It’s no party for spouses either, nor any other family members, but mainly, it’s a catastrophe for the kids. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-substances-does-society-most-harm/615603/32 "2012-03-14T03:00:02Z")
Althoug “pound for pound” marihuana is worse it can’t hold a candle to booze. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-substances-does-society-most-harm/615603/33 "2012-03-14T03:15:36Z")
> [@kushiel](#): > > If weed was legalized and consumed as often as alcohol, would it be more harmful than it is regarded now? Definitely > [@kushiel](#): > > Does it impair you enough that you can’t drive or make clear decisions? Yes. > [@kushiel](#): > > Would it be a substance that people would choose over their families (like many alcoholics do)? Probably. But the bottom line is that marijuana tends to mellow people out (you don’t see a lot of people smoking a few joints and starting fights in bars, beating their spouses, or driving 120mph on a city street), and that you can’t physically overdose from smoking marijuana, so people don’t die as a direct result of it. ---
**Author:** ![Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8c91f0/32.png) [@Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bam_Boo_Gut)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-substances-does-society-most-harm/615603/34 "2012-03-14T04:37:08Z")
> [@Michael63129](#): > > If one goes by [this chart on Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:HarmCausedByDrugsTable.jpg), Yeay mushies! ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-substances-does-society-most-harm/615603/35 "2012-03-14T15:19:09Z")
> [@Michael63129](#): > > If one goes by [this chart on Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:HarmCausedByDrugsTable.jpg), alcohol is by far the worst of any of the drugs shown Note in the fine print: “The authors explain that one of the limitation of this study is that drug harms are functions of their availability and legal status in the UK, and so other cultures’ control systems could yield different rankings.” Still a very good chart, but I’m curious how the numbers would shift based on the gradual elimination of public smoking of tobacco products, toughening of drunk-driving laws, and the increase in legal medical use of marijuana in the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![kushiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbce88/32.png) [@kushiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kushiel)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-substances-does-society-most-harm/615603/36 "2012-03-14T16:18:20Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > Yes, marijuana is capable of being abused similarly to alcohol. The slacker-stoner don’t-care stereotype is mostly true of people who smoke way too much weed. The difference is that alcohol is probably much more chemically addictive than pot. > > Pot does impair your ability to make good decisions, or operate machinery. The difference here is that alcohol often motivates people to do stupid stuff, while pot doesn’t motivate you to do much of anything at all. Drunkenness can “sneak up on you” so that your judgment suffers at exactly the same rate inverse to your sobriety, meaning that as you get stupider, you’re less able to realize that you’re being stupid. This can feed a pretty impressive alcoholic cycle, making you cataclysmically impaired but without any restraint or realization of consequences. On marijuana, you absolutely know just how high you are. An extremely high person is less likely to make the decision to drive than an extremely drunk person is. Hrm. Knowing an alcoholic that drank to get away from their problems, I wonder how it would have gone if it was the other way around and pot the a socially acceptable way to deal with your sorrows. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-substances-does-society-most-harm/615603/37 "2012-03-14T16:50:38Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > The most smoking will do is make hardship for the family members having to take care of a dying smoker. I grew up with a mother who chain smoked in the house all day, every day and an alcoholic step father. While neither was a walk in the park, the one that had the most effect on me was my mom- I was _always_ sick with bronchitis and asthma and on and on and on. Without fail, I’d get a very serious throat infection at least four times a year. I had an inhaler I took religiously for the asthma. Basically, I was a big ol sick pile of child, constantly living in misery due to my “allergies.” Except the day I moved out of my mom’s house, it all stopped. Everything. I’ve had a chest infection exactly once in the 10 years I haven’t lived with my mom. No throat infections. And I’ve never once had to take an inhaler of any sort, let alone a few times a day. I still get kind of coughy if I’m around a lot of smokers (being from California, I’m rarely around large amounts of smoke. . . except when I visit New Orleans for a vacation heh), but it’s absolutely nothing like my childhood. Anyway, I realize this is but one data point, but I want to make it clear that smoking can have a greater toll on families than just having to look after a dying family member someday. I spent my entire childhood thinking I was just some sort of weakling who got sick all the time (and getting made fun of at sleep overs because my blankets smelled like cigarette smoke) when the reality is that I was perfectly fine without being bombarded everyday with toxins. And hell, I have no idea what being around chain smoking for 16 years has done to my lungs in the long term- who knows what may or may not pop up when I’m a bit older because of all the chemicals I was subjected to. If it isn’t readily apparent from my post, I voted tobacco. ---
**Author:** ![OldLobsterClaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/eb9ed0/32.png) [@OldLobsterClaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldLobsterClaw)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2012, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-substances-does-society-most-harm/615603/38 "2012-03-24T01:24:29Z")
I voted for tobacco because it’s taken too many people I care about. But on further consideration, I gotta go with alcohol. My brother in law died in his lounge chair in his own piss, shit and vomit. He bled out internally from chronic severe alcoholism while my sister was dying of lung cancer. Pot? Shouldn’t even be in the poll except as placeholder. It’s not addictive, not toxic, doesn’t precipitate violence, has little effect on driving (check out Dept. of Transportation study). So-called amotivational syndrome has been pretty conclusively debunked, as has the “gateway drug” theory. ---
**Author:** ![Crab\_Rangoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Crab\_Rangoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crab_Rangoon)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2012, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-substances-does-society-most-harm/615603/39 "2012-03-24T13:15:54Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > I grew up with a mother who chain smoked in the house all day, every day and an alcoholic step father. While neither was a walk in the park, the one that had the most effect on me was my mom- I was _always_ sick with bronchitis and asthma and on and on and on. Without fail, I’d get a very serious throat infection at least four times a year. I had an inhaler I took religiously for the asthma. Basically, I was a big ol sick pile of child, constantly living in misery due to my “allergies.” > > Except the day I moved out of my mom’s house, it all stopped. Everything. I’ve had a chest infection exactly once in the 10 years I haven’t lived with my mom. No throat infections. And I’ve never once had to take an inhaler of any sort, let alone a few times a day. I still get kind of coughy if I’m around a lot of smokers (being from California, I’m rarely around large amounts of smoke. . . except when I visit New Orleans for a vacation heh), but it’s absolutely nothing like my childhood. > > Anyway, I realize this is but one data point, but I want to make it clear that smoking can have a greater toll on families than just having to look after a dying family member someday. I spent my entire childhood thinking I was just some sort of weakling who got sick all the time (and getting made fun of at sleep overs because my blankets smelled like cigarette smoke) when the reality is that I was perfectly fine without being bombarded everyday with toxins. And hell, I have no idea what being around chain smoking for 16 years has done to my lungs in the long term- who knows what may or may not pop up when I’m a bit older because of all the chemicals I was subjected to. > > If it isn’t readily apparent from my post, I voted tobacco. Wow - let me add myself as a second data point to yours. Same general situation - asthma as a child - I was “allergic” to everything - infections ALL the time. With me it was my grandfather that smoked constantly - once I moved out of the house - asthma cleared up and I hardly ever even get sick, much less get bronchitis or ear infections. I also voted tobacco. ---
**Author:** ![e72751](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@e72751](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/e72751)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2012, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-substances-does-society-most-harm/615603/40 "2012-03-24T13:29:04Z")
There was a study into this by a Dr. Nutt in the UK a while back which assessed the harm caused by various drugs to both users and to others: > **[Scoring drugs](https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2010/11/02/scoring-drugs)** > > A new study suggests alcohol is more harmful than heroin or crack It’s obviously going to be affected in unpredictable ways by availability and legality (though they did seem to take that into consideration some how). Influenced by that (and nothing else!), it was easy for me to vote ‘Alcohol’. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-substances-does-society-most-harm/615603.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-substances-does-society-most-harm/615603.md?page=3)