# Which of these three western states would be the best to hide in? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 16, 2024, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-three-western-states-would-be-the-best-to-hide-in/998931 "2024-03-16T22:21:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2024, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-three-western-states-would-be-the-best-to-hide-in/998931/41 "2024-03-18T12:38:06Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > In either an RV or one of those influencer vans. Okay, I have to ask: WTF is an “influencer van”? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2024, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-three-western-states-would-be-the-best-to-hide-in/998931/42 "2024-03-18T12:54:49Z")
The kind of vehicle a van-dwelling [social media influencer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van-dwelling##vanlife_on_social_media) would dwell in. [#vanlife](https://www.vanlife.com.au/) ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2024, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-three-western-states-would-be-the-best-to-hide-in/998931/43 "2024-03-18T13:00:02Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Eons ago I had the privilege of teaching young Army dudes, mostly inner city black kids, the rudiments of living and fighting in a tropical jungle. They might’ve been pretty scary toughs in front of a 7-11 or liquor store in the 'hood but they did not like creepy crawlies and mud and poisonous trees and dangerous ants one little bit. Squealed like little girls mostly. I had to wet-blanket a lot of young troops who had romantic notions of getting out of the service and “living off the land” in Alaska. Pointing out the realities of attempting to do that after growing up in L.A. or any other city hopefully injected some realism into those fantasies. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2024, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-three-western-states-would-be-the-best-to-hide-in/998931/44 "2024-03-18T13:13:42Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Leaving aside small towns and completely remote wilderness, aren’t there a lot of national parks and the like in those 3 states, that have a lot of tourist traffic? Such that if the fugitive made change to their appearance and traveled from one to another, staying a few weeks at each, they wouldn’t necessarily stand out from anyone else? That’s actually a darn good plan. The towns near those places are real used to a transient population. As always the problem for the fugitive is you either live fully off the land independent of civilization and the economy, or you need to spend money to live (at least partly) within the economy. Which in turn means you need a source of money, unless you’ve got a large stash already that you can access without leaving a paper trail. Absent the stash that means either you work cash only casual labor no-questions-asked jobs and quit regularly to move on, or you steal stuff. Both of those things are bad ideas for a fugitive’s long term success. Most criminals go into that line of “work” specifically to avoid working. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2024, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-three-western-states-would-be-the-best-to-hide-in/998931/45 "2024-03-18T13:33:03Z")
If you’re murdering people already, I don’t think you’d balk at also stealing their stuff. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2024, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-three-western-states-would-be-the-best-to-hide-in/998931/46 "2024-03-18T13:53:51Z")
Agree completely about not balking. But routinely committing minor crimes to get spending money to put gas in the van and groceries in your belly also invites lots of opportunities to come to local police attention. That’s the real drawback if you’re trying to be a successful fugitive living below the radar. Plundering the home of somebody you murder is easy enough. Hope they have a bunch of small untraceable valuables. It’s the rest of getting along for a few months between murders that’s harder. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2024, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-three-western-states-would-be-the-best-to-hide-in/998931/47 "2024-03-18T13:56:45Z")
I think it works better if the slasher grew up in the small town, and is already known. Maybe even has a shitty job that pays for gas, lives in Granny’s basement. Then he just needs to change his face for his criminal activities. If you structure it that way, you can set the story anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2024, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-three-western-states-would-be-the-best-to-hide-in/998931/48 "2024-03-18T14:37:12Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > But it’s not always the case that bodies are found that quickly. A common news story is someone finding a body (well, bones actually) that’s been there for years. True. But some of them are found in cities and suburbs; including sometimes in buildings. > [@MrDibble](#): > > If you’re murdering people already, I don’t think you’d balk at also stealing their stuff. Yeah. But a lot of people these days carry very little cash. And using their cards would leave a trail. A lot of things about disappearing have gotten a whole lot harder than they used to be. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > I think it works better if the slasher grew up in the small town, and is already known. Maybe even has a shitty job that pays for gas, lives in Granny’s basement. Then he just needs to change his face for his criminal activities. If you structure it that way, you can set the story anywhere That’s a good point. And people may be reluctant to believe that the guy they grew up with is the one who’s the slasher. On the other hand – the guy they grew up with probably showed early signs of this. And even if it’s not provable, most likely everybody knows who most likely killed those dogs, or whatever. Maybe if he didn’t grow up there, but moved there a couple of years ago to help take care of Granny, who is his actual Granny? and is really nice to Granny and also to her neighbors, and makes sure not to rampage close to home? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2024, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-three-western-states-would-be-the-best-to-hide-in/998931/49 "2024-03-18T14:42:14Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > But a lot of people these days carry very little cash. And using their cards would leave a trail. I wasn’t thinking a “pick up and murder hitchhikers” kind of serial killer, myself. More a “get into your home and murder you at leisure - and so have the time to torture your account details out of you” kind of serial killer. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2024, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-three-western-states-would-be-the-best-to-hide-in/998931/50 "2024-03-18T14:54:39Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I wasn’t thinking a “pick up and murder hitchhikers” kind of serial killer, myself. More a “get into your home and murder you at leisure - and so have the time to torture your account details out of you” kind of serial killer. Ah. I see what you mean. Better make sure to use the ATM, and well after business hours – in a small town the bank’s very likely to know what the victim looks like. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2024, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-three-western-states-would-be-the-best-to-hide-in/998931/51 "2024-03-18T15:06:54Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Better make sure to use the ATM, and well after business hours – in a small town the bank’s very likely to know what the victim looks like. There’s online avenues for laundering money, through crypto and related enterprises. So once you can access someone’s electronic account, you can syphon it dry before needing to spend any of it on quicklime and a shovel. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2024, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-three-western-states-would-be-the-best-to-hide-in/998931/52 "2024-03-18T15:09:38Z")
**Bolder, Colorado.** Given the way the local Cops screwed up the JonBenet investigation, you could hide a Hippo in a Phone Booth, & the BPD would miss it. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2024, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-three-western-states-would-be-the-best-to-hide-in/998931/53 "2024-03-18T15:42:36Z")
Not in the 3 states mentioned but not too far away in Idaho, a 50 square mile strip of land in Yellowstone National Park, called the ‘Zone of Death’ exists in a legal loophole in which there’s no state or local jurisdiction. It’s been theorized that one could commit felonies there and get away with it. Just a couple problems, though. The theoretical legal loophole would only extend to felonies committed _ **within** _ the area I believe, not ones that were committed elsewhere-- a wanted felon probably couldn’t flee there and be immune from punishment. In other words, I don’t think the area would function like an embassy or country without extradition. Also, you have the ‘surviving in the wilderness’ problem that’s been mentioned-- it’s a very remote area with no roads, and no people. So the OP’s fictional serial killer wouldn’t have much fun there, unless they’re an accomplished outdoorsman who likes to serial kill grizzly bears. > **[Idaho legislator asks U.S. Congress to close Yellowstone’s 'zone of death'...](https://idahocapitalsun.com/2022/02/03/idaho-legislator-asks-u-s-congress-to-close-yellowstones-zone-of-death-loophole/)** > > Is there a part of Yellowstone where someone could get away with murder? An Idaho legislator is asking Congress to close the loophole. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2024, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-three-western-states-would-be-the-best-to-hide-in/998931/54 "2024-03-18T17:30:02Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Better make sure to use the ATM, and well after business hours – in a small town the bank’s very likely to know what the victim looks like. Substantially every ATM for the last 20 years has a complete video recording of every transaction. The cops will have very nice close-up footage of your face while you’re sticking the torture victim’s ATM card into the machine and punching in their PIN. Vacuuming their bank account(s) or brokerage account(s) into some dark web Bitcoin wallet is the way to go. That also presupposes a smart-ish class of serial killer, not just a slobbering crazed wacko. I really like @puzzlegal’s idea of a local townie. As more bodies accumulate the survivors will each be playing amateur sleuth trying to connect the dots of who would choose those particular victims in that order. And most of all, trying to predict [cue ominous music] who’s next? You could make the majority of the book length or screen time about the increasingly nervous and untrusting interactions of the townies. Like a vintage Hitchcock or Twilight Zone episode, it’s more about a bunch of people reacting to a strange stressor than it is about screaming, spewing blood, and clandestine shallow burials by moonlight. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2024, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-three-western-states-would-be-the-best-to-hide-in/998931/55 "2024-03-18T17:33:50Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Substantially every ATM for the last 20 years has a complete video recording of every transaction. The cops will have very nice close-up footage of your face while you’re sticking the torture victim’s ATM card into the machine and punching in their PIN. It is clear that I’m not well prepared to become a travelling serial killer. Also, if I’m going to start writing stories about such, I need to do research first. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2024, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-three-western-states-would-be-the-best-to-hide-in/998931/56 "2024-03-18T17:43:36Z")
My late wife was a banking attorney. Usually she had nothing official to do with ATM fraud cases, but she heard quite a few entertaining stories. One of which was a tale of a customer who’d used the branch’s outdoor ATM then inadvertently walked away with their card still in the machine. Somebody standing nearby got to the machine quickly, before the legit transaction had finished timing out, and made another withdrawal. And another and another. Once the machine had disgorged all the money it was willing to give to that “one” person today, the bad guy took his loot and the ejected card and wandered off. All on video. When the customer complained a few days later to the bank about the unauthorized transactions, they accessed the video. The branch staff instantly recognized the perp. He was an IT consultant for the bank who was working in a back room at that branch at that very moment. Local police were summoned and the rest went about as you’d expect. It can be hard(er) to make bail when you’re suddenly unemployed. Rocket, meet surgery. You can’t make this shit up. Or said another way, it’s hard to make shit up as stupid as what the criminal public can think up all on its own. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2024, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-three-western-states-would-be-the-best-to-hide-in/998931/57 "2024-03-18T17:44:08Z")
I think that area was part of one of the Longmire novels. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2024, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-three-western-states-would-be-the-best-to-hide-in/998931/58 "2024-03-18T17:50:29Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Substantially every ATM for the last 20 years has a complete video recording of every transaction. The cops will have very nice close-up footage of your face while you’re sticking the torture victim’s ATM card into the machine and punching in their PIN. Put on an FFP2 face mask when you withdraw money from that ATM. They’re still sufficiently common not to arouse the suspicion of bystanders and should cover your face pretty well. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2024, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-three-western-states-would-be-the-best-to-hide-in/998931/59 "2024-03-18T18:06:54Z")
Yeah. I thought that COVID-era masking would be a real boon to muggers and smash-and-grab thieves by normalizing the idea of hidden faces. It seems not to have happened as much as I expected. But yeah, by and large I don’t see people acting hinky in the presence of masked folks. Although I have seen some bank branches with signs saying “no masks” ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2024, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-three-western-states-would-be-the-best-to-hide-in/998931/60 "2024-03-18T18:08:38Z")
My bank responded to face masks over the bottom of the face by putting up signs saying that sunglasses and floppy hats were forbidden. There’s plenty of face to photograph even wearing an N95/FFP2 mask. > [@LSLGuy](#): > > Although I have seen some bank branches with signs saying “no masks” Interesting. Last time I was in the bank, one of the tellers was wearing a surgical mask. (and the “no sunglasses” sign is still there.) Customs vary, I guess. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-three-western-states-would-be-the-best-to-hide-in/998931.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-three-western-states-would-be-the-best-to-hide-in/998931.md?page=4)