# Which of these titles for a play do you like the most? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 1, 2009, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-titles-for-a-play-do-you-like-the-most/519554 "2009-12-01T03:28:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-titles-for-a-play-do-you-like-the-most/519554/1 "2009-12-01T03:28:45Z")
So your significant other/probation officer/groundskeeper/etc. tells you that he or she is about to be in a play and then gives the name of the play. You know nothing about the subject matter of the play, only the name. Which of the following strikes you as most memorable: Thanks for any opinion. (Would have done a poll but to be honest I can’t remember how.) ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-titles-for-a-play-do-you-like-the-most/519554/2 "2009-12-01T03:34:53Z")
Obviously I remembered how so ignore that last part.😉 ---
**Author:** ![Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f08c70/32.png) [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crowbar_of_Irony_3)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-titles-for-a-play-do-you-like-the-most/519554/3 "2009-12-01T04:33:47Z")
I go for “This Particular Day of June” because it is evocative, well at the same time leaving you wondering what it is all about. It’s like a great hook. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-titles-for-a-play-do-you-like-the-most/519554/4 "2009-12-01T04:41:14Z")
I chose both **La Bella del Vecchio** and **This Particular Day Of June**. I like the nuances in **La Bella** , but also like the tantalizing aspect of **This Particular Day**. I would also suggest changing the first title to **This Beautiful View**. If that was up there, I’da picked it. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-titles-for-a-play-do-you-like-the-most/519554/5 "2009-12-01T04:45:19Z")
Beautiful View - I like this one because it’s the least pretentious, even if it’s ominously reminiscent of “A Room With a View” La Bella del Vecchio - Is it an Italian play being performed in Italian? If not, why isn’t the title in plain English? I smell pretension! Aesthetics - Oh no, it wants to teach me something and isn’t even going to try to be subtle about it. A Charming Day at Beauvoir - This sounds \*way \*to Merchant-Ivory for me. This Particular Day of June - Who talks like this? Shouldn’t it be “This Particular Day _in_ June?” And what’s “particular” about it, anyway? Why not “This June Day?” OK, I looked it up and saw it was an Oscar Wilde quote, but he was a flamboyant 19th-century poet, so he’s excused. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-titles-for-a-play-do-you-like-the-most/519554/6 "2009-12-01T06:12:24Z")
A set-up/synopsis of the play in spoilers so as not to influence opinions, with play titles capitalized for empahsis; apologies for the background but it’s necessary to understand context of some of the terms. [spoiler]In 1881 Oscar Wilde was not the least bit famous in America outside of a very few salon-circles in major cities perhaps, and there’s no reason he would have been. He’d written a small volume of (mostly mediocre) poems and a play (Vera) that flopped wherever it was produced. (Dorian Gray, Lady Windermere, Earnest, etc., were all, like his sons and his scandals, just shadows of things to come.) In London however he was one of the first people to become “famous for being famous” as the embodiment of the Aesthetical movement. Americans who knew him at all knew him as the inspiration for some vicious and often hysterical cartoons in London papers (a velvet and lace dressed dandy who goes into restaurants and eats the flower or holds up traffic admiring his shadow) and as the inspiration for Bunthorne, a ridiculous fop lampooned in cartoons and in the Gilbert & Sullivan operetta _Patience_. The operetta became super popular in America, though G&S didn’t earn a penny from it due to copyright laws, so in 1882 they decided to fund and produce their own “official” version on Broadway and in repertoire companies; their producer sponsored a tour by Oscar Wilde both to boost publicity for the play (so they’d know what was being parodied) and to make money: Wilde (who did not mind the least bit being lampooned or made the butt of jokes as it was making him famous and self supporting) and the operetta Patience cross pollinated each other marvelously. Wilde toured America for almost a year speaking on various aspects of AESTHETICS, or more properly [the Aesthetic Movement](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aesthetic_movement), of which he was the embodiment back in London. The individual lecture topics varied (‘The English Renaissance’ was probably his least popular), but his two most frequent were ‘The House Beautiful’ and ‘The Decorative Arts’, both of which evolved over the year. It was almost unthinkable that America, a nation that prided itself on rugged individuals and had incredible poverty and garish wealth and was so diverse, would respond well to a ‘sissy’ (though probably not yet practicing gay) Englishman in velvet and a cape and holding a sunflower talking about of all unbelievable things aspects of interior decoration- yet he was a phenomenon. He had bad experiences of course: Chicagoans were cool when he insulted a castle shaped water tower they were proud of, San Antonio and Oakland were bad experiences, but on the whole he was hugely successful- roaring ovations, keys to cities, interviewed almost daily, by spring 1882 everybody knew who he was if they could read and he wasn’t even halfway through the tour. Okey doke- that’s the background, from here it’s much shorter: Wilde was repeatedly asked which Americans he most wanted to meet. His number one answer was always Jefferson Davis, which surprised a lot of people. Wilde’s mother was a staunch Irish nationalist and Davis and other Confederate personalities were something like folk heroes in Ireland at this time- they were more into the Lost Cause notion than the South itself would be for quite a while. (Most southerners wanted to forget the war and so to many millions Davis was something of a political/ideological Norma Desmond; like Jimmy Carter or George Bush the Elder today he’d draw a crowd wherever he went and had worshipful admirers, but to most he was just something of a relic- the war was too recent for nostalgia and too far past for relevance.) More than a decade earlier Wilde’s mother (whose brother had been a super successful planter and businessman in New Orleans who knew the Davis family, thus a connection) had invited the Davis’s to dinner when they were in Dublin. They had declined on the excuse of health; a more likely reason was that Varina Davis was embarassed by her outdated dresses as they were living far too hand-to-mouth for her to buy new clothes (any money had to go to Jefferson’s appearance and wardrobe since he was trying to get a job and make money from lectures). The Davises, in part because of this and in part because of his super fame and his comments on Jefferson, invited him to call on them. He arranged his schedule to spend a day and the night with them between his lecture in New Orleans and his lecture in Mobile. No reporters accompanied him, so it’s not known what was said. Only a few things were recorded: Jefferson Davis was not particularly fond of him and turned in early, while Varina and her daughter Winnie\* absolutely loved him. The day and night were spent at the Davis home, Beauvoir (French for BEAUTIFUL VIEW), and while the conversation is anybody’s guess you can be assured art was a major topic, and upon entering Beauvoir you will see almost immediately the painting LA BELLA DEL VECCHIO, a centuries old copy of [this painting](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_DtsajQefh2s/RkwX6XQcpNI/AAAAAAAAEXs/LUzN-T52jvg/s400/palma+vecchio+Portrait+of+a+Young+Woman+Known+as+La+Bella.jpg) that [Varina](http://home.att.net/~smerela/varina.jpg) said (in other sources) reminded her of herself when she was young and of her daughter [Winnie](http://gurleyalabama.contactez.net/images/WinnieDavis.jpg). While he was there Varina asked permission to sketch Wilde (I have a copy but can’t find one online- it’s… not bad for amateur, certainly not a masterpiece). I can easily envision this and La Bella and Varina’s embarrassment over her aging (which she was quite sensitive about- she wrote an old friend that “when you knew me I was young, erect, slim and fair, I am now [old, short,](http://www.foodhistory.com/foodnotes/leftovers/davis/varina/mys/02mini-image.jpg) fat and [brown](http://www.beauvoir.org/grkids3.gif)\*\* and would rather you remember me as I was”), along with two paintings in the house Varina HATED (neurotically almost, one of them was in the attic) and the fact this all occurred on June 27, 1882 all leading to some version of the line from Dorian Gray: “I shall grow old, and horrible, and dreadful. But this picture will remain always young. It will never be older than THIS PARTICULAR DAY OF JUNE”. When Wilde left he gave an autographed photo to Jefferson Davis ([this photo](http://songofmyselves.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/oscar_wilde.jpg) inscribed “To Jefferson Davis in all loyal admiration from Oscar Wilde, June— '82— Beauvoir”). To Varina he left a photo and a volume of his poems inscribed “To Mrs. Jefferson Davis in appreciation for A CHARMING DAY AT BEAUVOIR- June '82 Oscar Wilde”). Given this, would love to hear any notions of which you think would work best. (Obviously this isn’t the whole play and ironically not all the info above will be in it, but it’s to given an idea.) \*It was Winnie’s 18th birthday that day. Just for confusion sake, Winnie’s name at birth was Varina Anne Howell Davis, the same as her mother, whose nickname at the time her daughter was born was… Winnie. For further confusion and symbolism, Winnie was what Davis had called his slave governess (or his mammy if you will) when he was a child. \*\*Varina is the one holding the baby; many mistook her for a light skinned black nurse rather than the former First Lady of the CSA.[/spoiler] I also considered Trompe-l’œil, strictly because Beauvoir has some of the most beautiful “eye tricking” painting I’ve ever seen on a place that’s not really a mansion, but 1- very pretentious 2- who can pronounce it if they’re not already familiar? 3- doesn’t really work with the plot. I also considered “The Old Masters” since much of the dialogue obviously deals with the Davis’s past as slaveowners, but nah, or “A Most Intense Young Man” which is a verse from a song in PATIENCE about Wilde/Bunthorne that was played wherever he went. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-titles-for-a-play-do-you-like-the-most/519554/7 "2009-12-01T08:29:02Z")
Well if that’s the basic situation, Oscar Wilde visiting with Mrs. Jefferson Davis and her daughter (mostly), you could call the play **Girls Gone Wilde**. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-titles-for-a-play-do-you-like-the-most/519554/8 "2009-12-01T08:31:03Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Well if that’s the basic situation, Oscar Wilde visiting with Mrs. Jefferson Davis and her daughter (mostly), you could call the play **Girls Gone Wilde**. As the Davises had many ups and downs during and after and because of the Civil War you could extend it with **Girls Gone Wilde With the Wind**. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-titles-for-a-play-do-you-like-the-most/519554/9 "2009-12-01T08:36:25Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > As the Davises had many ups and downs during and after and because of the Civil War you could extend it with **Girls Gone Wilde With the Wind**. Were there trees on the Davis property? Then it’s **Girls Gone Wilde With The Wind In The Willows**! Srsly, I think **This Particular Day Of June** sums the events up nicely, but the wording is slightly “off” contemporary usage, so it piques the interest a bit. I can see advertisements with the tagline: “I shall grow old, and horrible, and dreadful. But this picture will remain always young. It will never be older than THIS PARTICULAR DAY OF JUNE”. You could even have a picture of Wilde in the ad; it’s not as if his face is well-known nowadays. ETA: Have the playbill cover and the ad feature a woman’s hand holding a picture of Wilde. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-titles-for-a-play-do-you-like-the-most/519554/10 "2009-12-01T10:08:19Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Were there trees on the Davis property? Then it’s **Girls Gone Wilde With The Wind In The Willows**! Add a trio of singing black servants and it’s **Dreamgirls gone Wilde With the Wind in the Willows**. > [@](#): > > ETA: Have the playbill cover and the ad feature a woman’s hand holding a picture of Wilde. In case you or anyone is interested here are some altered versions of the actual pencil sketch. [In blue](http://www.flickr.com/photos/28949748@N06/4149230733/in/photostream/) [In mauve](http://www.flickr.com/photos/28949748@N06/4149988740/) [Third](http://www.flickr.com/photos/28949748@N06/4149230691) ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-titles-for-a-play-do-you-like-the-most/519554/11 "2009-12-01T13:54:36Z")
I picked “This Particular Day of June” because it’s easiest to pronounce. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-titles-for-a-play-do-you-like-the-most/519554/12 "2009-12-01T13:57:08Z")
None are particularly memorable or intriguing. ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-titles-for-a-play-do-you-like-the-most/519554/13 "2009-12-01T14:24:41Z")
> [@CrazyChop](#): > > I go for “This Particular Day of June” because it is evocative, well at the same time leaving you wondering what it is all about. It’s like a great hook. I voted the same for the same reason. I like the use of “This” instead of “A”. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-titles-for-a-play-do-you-like-the-most/519554/14 "2009-12-01T14:59:25Z")
I’m gonna move this IMHO --\> Cafe Society, since that’s where the theater-goers hang out. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-titles-for-a-play-do-you-like-the-most/519554/15 "2009-12-01T15:42:30Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Add a trio of singing black servants and it’s **Dreamgirls gone Wilde With the Wind in the Willows**. Since it takes place in late June, it could be **A Midsummer Night’s Dreamgirls Gone Wilde With The Wind In The Willows**. > [@Sampiro](#): > > In case you or anyone is interested here are some altered versions of the actual pencil sketch. > > [In blue](http://www.flickr.com/photos/28949748@N06/4149230733/in/photostream/) > > [In mauve](http://www.flickr.com/photos/28949748@N06/4149988740/) > [Third](http://www.flickr.com/photos/28949748@N06/4149230691) I like the 3rd one best, but don’t actually care much for any of them. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-titles-for-a-play-do-you-like-the-most/519554/16 "2009-12-01T16:08:56Z")
I’m sorry, but I don’t particularly like any of them. A foreign-language title sounds pretentious and can easily scare away American audiences. “You wanna go see that play: _A Charming Day at Behavior_, or _Beaver_, or whatever it is?” “Beautiful View” sounds like it should be subtitled, “Great Scenery—Nothing Happens.” “Aesthetics” makes one think of something dry like “A philosophical treatise on…” “This Particular Day of June” is the least objectionable, but it sounds generic—the play’s about something that happened on some particular day in June, but it gives no clue what, or why it matters or why I’d want to see it. Although it makes me suspect that one of the characters may be named June and the title is trying to be clever about it. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-titles-for-a-play-do-you-like-the-most/519554/17 "2009-12-01T20:11:03Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Since it takes place in late June, it could be **A Midsummer Night’s Dreamgirls Gone Wilde With The Wind In The Willows**. This is it… it’ll definitely get press and attention. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-titles-for-a-play-do-you-like-the-most/519554/18 "2009-12-01T21:38:11Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > This is it… it’ll definitely get press and attention. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Leiko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Leiko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leiko)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-titles-for-a-play-do-you-like-the-most/519554/19 "2009-12-01T21:53:02Z")
I picked La Bella del Vecchio, because you asked about what would be the most memorable in the body of your post. Since I love Due South and hate Twilight, the combination of Bella and Vecchio is easy to remember. I didn’t realize it was a ticky box poll; if I had, I would have also picked “This Particular Day in June.” ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-titles-for-a-play-do-you-like-the-most/519554/20 "2009-12-01T21:59:50Z")
I like Beautiful View first, then La Bella… The others sound like, well, titles to plays. Plays that are _trying to make a point_. Gahhh… Best wishes, hh [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/which-of-these-titles-for-a-play-do-you-like-the-most/519554.md?page=2)